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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Flame On!

gnnn!! dakka frustrates me sometimes, the forum doesnt work very well.

anyway here's the post i wanted:
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




Québec

I dunno if it's a good idea to field this much Fireknives, even if you'd have an extensive ML Network, as you're ending up paying premium for shots that'll only hit half of the time. I think you'd be better along the Stealth Dakka route or with TL your Crisis' weapon systems and beefing up your Kroots.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Flame On!

main disadvantage of crisis in the current codex compared to stealths is the shield drones dont work, so they need terrain to JSJ behind for protection, which is quite limiting.

with the fix of drones, and the drop in price, it makes crisis competitive with stealths.

i dont think markerlights would benefit this type of list, it doesnt need seeker missiles because of all the crisis so the skyray is just competeing for railhead space and i'd rather have railhead

pathfinders would be a solo static target in an otherwise fast army, i dont see them doing much.
would you rather have 9 crisis suits, or 7 suits and 6 pathfinders?

all the other sources of markers dont fit into the army either, i thought about using the FW squad for that role but i trimmed the points out.

as for the bias towards fireknives, well, yea. i had it previously without the piranha, and using 3x3 fk shielded suits squads, for 11 suits total.
but with some of those dropped for 2 deathrain, and others dropped for fusion piranha, it doesnt seem so unreasonable when you count up the guns in total (6 plasma, 9 missiles, 3 fusion, 3 rails)
but if you where still concerned, i could switch that 159 2-suit plasma/missile unit out directly for plasma/fusion for exactly same cost. i left it fireknife though for reasons of range.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Flame On!

umm kodo, you mentioned a similar thing about fireknives should be replaced by twinlinking, in longshot's list thread, so i think i'll address it better.
bs3 isnt that bad, you make up for it by using quantity.

twin missile suit plus twin plasma suit rapid firing, gets 1.5 hits on each weapon

2 fireknife suits gets 2 hits from each weapon.

the twinlinked suits are cheaper though, because the 3rd hard point is cheap. fk are now 62 pts, deathrain are 46 with BSF, twin plasma with flamer is 59 = 105 total compared to 124 for 2 fireknives.

so the FK suits gets 1 hit of each weapon per 62 pts
the twinlinked ones get 1 of each weapon per 70 pts


so uhhh fk ones come out as actually being a bit more accurate.
if you use target locks on the twin suits, (cos they're more useful than cheap BSF or flamers when the suits are in squads), then the effectiveness of the twin linking suits drops further (1 hit of each weapon, per 72 pts)


ok, there's 2 other things to consider too.
a bs3 suit markerlit up to bs4 gains 16.6% more chance to hit (on both its weapons)
a twin linked bs3 suit, boosted to twin linked bs4, gains 13.8% chance to hit. (on a single weapon)

so the fireknives benefit more from markerlights. if you're going to be markering, twinlinking your suits is a poor choice

the other thing to consider is the distribution of weapons, do you want all the missiles in one unit, and all the plasma in another unit? or do you want both guns available in both locations?

there's pro's and con's either way. eg. if you face an extreme army like massed light vehicles, or massed terminators/oblits, then if the enemy knocks out that one appropriate squad, they've totally crippled your ability to respond, but with fireknives they have only killed half your plasma, or half your missiles.
a downside of fireknife is that if you're firing missiles at terminators, its a bit of a waste. if you're firing plasma at AV13, thats also a bit of a waste. (generally though the overlap between str6 ap2, and str7 ap4, is pretty good so its ok.)

i think overall its a matter of preference though, that last issue.
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




Québec

Yeah, shown like that, your suits will still be decent threats despite not using TL. What these lack in precision (somewhat), they'll make up through quantity and versatility. Though Markerlights would sure come in handy___are FW Shas'Ui still able to field Markerlights?

No, do keep Plas/Mpod instead of replacing one with a Fusion Blaster___that puppy's definitively too short-ranged for non-Deep Striking suits.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Flame On!

yea for 20 pts i could get the markerlight in the FW squad
not sure where to get the points. easiest place is upgrades on the hammerheads, drop SMS and targetlock. those 4 shots per tank are well worth 15 pts though.
other option maybe replace the 4 shield drones with gundrones..
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Man, I really am starting to think that markerlit fireknife suits will be fantastic. Gotta try it. Will put together some more shield drones as well if they do indeed get T4 and a 3+ save
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Flame On!

they do indeed.
(broadside's shield drones get a 2+ save!)
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Flame On!

btw i had another look at the codex this afternoon and totalled up the price for something:

elite slot crisis, with missile pod, BSF, drone controller, 2 markerdrones, is 100 points exactly
the cheapest config of this type would be crisis, BSF, flamer, 2 markerdrones at 92 pts. i reckon the 2 missile shots are worth 8 pts though.

(Blacksun Filter is the cheapest option to fill the slot at 3 pts. for 106 pts, i could twin link the missile pods. or for 101 pts, could take a flamer instead that'd never get used)


the missile pod is the same range as markers and probably quite a good match for the stuff you'd be wanting to marker.

it'd get 1 marker hit a turn for 100 pts, whereas a unit of pathfinders gets them much cheaper at 55 pts per hit (unit of 6, with a 95pt fish)
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Sniper Drone



Lancashire

true about the markers, but how much easier is it to kill pathfinders than to kill crisis suits. I'd wager quite a lot easier.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Well how much is a Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, HW Multi-Tracker, Drone Controller, & 2 Marker Light Drones
I think that fielding 1 of these per Crisis Squad of 3 with the other two being basic firknives would be just terrifying. . .

Jump out of cover, target with the Marker Light Drones, fire both weapons at whatever your target is. . .

On average you should get one hit with the marker lights. . .
3 Plasma Rifle Shots, 6 Missile Pod Shots at BS of 3/4*. . .
On Average 2 Plasma Rifle Shots hit, 4 Missile Pod Shots hit. . .
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut






In da Mekshop

You can't jump out of cover and still use the Markerlights on the Marker-Drones, as Markerlights are Heavy weapons. No moving and firing.

If the rules are the way they were for Stealthsuits with a markerlight then you would have to sit still for a turn, fire your markerlight, then you could jump into cover.

Marker Drones on suits will slow them down and make them bigger targets. The battlesuit with MP is the best choice since, as was mentioned, the range is the same and the enemy should have more to worry about than your markerlight and MP in the backfield.

-GrimTeef-
Proud mod of The-Waaagh forum and Vice-President of the Brian Nelson is a Sculpting God Club 
   
 
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