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Made in se
Emboldened Warlock





umea Sweden

Sooooo...
I have been asking myself this ''Besides Grimgor wich O&G special character is most effective ''

Since i couldn't figure out the answer i ask this questions to you Dakkaites instead

Let the discussions begin (trumpets sounding as the Dakkaites grab their keyboards and start replying)

//Gar'Ang

"There's an experience worse than blindness—it's the certainty that your vision is perfect and the horror that there's no world around you to see." - Clinging Darkness, Ravnica city of guilds
SeiNaah craftworld
Hive Fleet Gonroth
Order of Her Sacred Remains
Dark angels 2:nd company, the Ravenwing 
   
Made in bg
Cosmic Joe





Bulgaria

Teclis.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/24 21:44:06



Nosebiter wrote:
Codex Space Marine is renamed as Codex Counts As Because I Dont Like To Loose And Gw Hates My Army.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





New book really soon. Let's see how it pans out.

   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch






Gorbad is really sweet in the upcoming armybook he is a BSB and general and has the large target rule for them. He also modifies the squabble chart equal to the number of his remaining wounds.

Azhaug is good too. He can quell animosity 18" now instead of 6" and is a Level 3 wizard of death instead of level 2.

The new spider rider hero SC is pretty cheap and makes a unit of spider riders AWESOME.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'd say Gorbad is the most worthwhile of the Lords, for his points, and the Forest Goblin's the best per-points of Heroes.

Grimgor's nice, yes, but he's still too expensive. Looking at his statlines, he's about 100pts for his special rules (WS8, ASF, WS+1 and Hatred to a unit he joins). You need to take him with a large block of BOrcs to make his "upgrades" a cost-effective one (At least a good 25 to make it 4pts / model for +1WS and Hatred), and at this point you're looking at a 700pt-ish unit that is going to be hard pressed to make its points up in a game (assuming you're playing points, and not something like Break Points).

Azhag, well, see above "Doesn't make up points". He's nice statlined and ruled and all that, but being essentially 500pts (or about 340-ish points for himself when you discount his Wyvern) is a bit much. His main effects really are access to Lore of Death, and his Animosity Re-Roll over an 18" Bubble. He's essentially the cost of a pimped out Slaan, and he doesn't really excel in either combat or magic.

Gorbad? 18" BSB and General at Ld10 who also makes it so, at least as long as he's alive, that you can always at least charge, even if rolling a 1 on Animosity. He can also do some hurt in close combat against multi-wound enemies, getting 4 S6 (for the first round) attacks at ASF (and I5, so he might get re-rolls) that ignore armor saves then cause D3 wounds. He also allows you to take more Big 'Uns, which at essentially two points less / model can be more readily taken (A unit of 30 now is 60pts less than one of thirty last edition, and those sixty points saved can be a lot).

Gorbad knows what he wants to do, which is provide your army leadership buffs and keep it together. And he does it well.


Of the two Hero Goblins? The Wolf Rider one doesn't know what he wants to do. He buffs shooting, but not enough to make Wolf Riders come close to matching Dark Riders (Wow, a unit of seven and him can put out a terrifying ten shots a turn at S3 regular saves, all for the price of only 200pts!), and he has bonus' to pursuit and flee rolls, but in the former he's not using any of his shooting bonus and the later he's being used improperly as he set himself up to be charged and flee instead of shooting turn after turn.

The Spider Rider, meanwhile? He knows what he wants to do: Get you behind the enemy's lines with Ambush, then hit them in the flank / rear. Devastating Charge and Ambush work well for that, then if you combine with a Sneaky Stabbin' spell you can pretty much promise his unit will make up their points (Seeing as how five spider riders and him get a total of 6 Poisoned attacks re-rolling everything, followed by 14 S4 attacks re-rolling everything, both with armor piercing, in that combo). Don't want to hunt units? Hunt War Machines instead, as you can practically make up a small unit's point cost by killing 2-3 war machines with him, and even on his own (his unit shot out underneath him) that should be a possibility (due to 4 WS4 S4 attacks on the charge from him alone).
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





Minsc pretty much covers it.

I will mention, however, that the idea behind killing as many or more points than you're worth is rarely an accurate way of measuring things. Grimgor makes a unit more durable in combat (getting hit on 3's less). That might be enough to save your unit at the end of the game, but it's usually hard to tell.

Of course, if everything in your army follows the logic that it should kill more than it's worth, that's not to say it won't win. I'm just saying that there are a lot of little aspects that get set aside with this reasoning. Not enough to change a whole lot, but probably enough to change something.

 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Cary, NC

Minsc has done a good job of reviewing those characters, but another thing to consider is the character within your army.

Gorbad is good at what he does, but if you spend a lot of points in your army on things he can't help (say, tons of goblins) he's going to be less useful than if you spend points on stuff he can help (tons of orcs cheaply upgraded to Big 'Uns).

Grimgor won't help your army nearly as much in a unit of 10 Black Orcs as he will in a unit of 40 Black Orcs. Furthermore, if that unit is your only main combat unit (you take tons of Wolf Rider units, maybe), he's not going to be as useful, because your enemy is going to shoot/magic/avoid his unit and you'll have nothing else to punch them with.

It's possible to build an army that makes an effective character much less useful, and it's possible to build an army that makes a marginal character much more effective. It's not just a question of who has the best stat line and rules.

I'm planning on a (more fun than effective) Spider Kult army with 3 Arachnaroks, and I'm very hopeful that the Spider Riding Hero will be useful going after those war machines that plague huge targets. He seems well designed to hurt the things that pose the most threat to my heavy hitters.


 
   
 
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