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Just wondering which type of landraider I should get, I'm running space wolves and am using 2 lots of wolf guard and Logan alongside some grey hunters and a rune priest, I don't have any long fangs yet and I'm stuck as to which one will work best I will be using it to run Logan and a unit of wolf guard into assault but after that I want it to be useful.

Please help me decide

Well is there an army you play against more then others? Each variant has its uses against certain armies is why Im asking. Ive heard people say that the redeemer is just the best anti Ork out there. The SM player in our group has used it a couple times against me, and it was a bit lack luster. Maybe its just him and not understanding the best way to play SM against Orks, I dunno.

I was thinking redeemer myself seems more likely to get infantry kills and with a mm on top you still get anti tank

I reckon the Crusader is the best for Loganwing IMHO. The bolters wreck orks and 'nids at longer range than the flamestorms, and the multimelta means you have a nice, well rounded tank that can feasibly kill anything in the game (Monoliths excepted).

I prefer the Crusader. It can move 6 and fire everything, has expanded capacity, and its guns can torrent away pesky xenos and even marines. The range issue of the redeemer is what kills it for me.

Bruti and notabot have it; Redeemer wastes guns when it moves, and when it doesn't most things will avoid the templates to begin with.

I completely ignore the Redeemer whenever I am choosing Rand Raider varients; I could think about it when I know i will be fighting marines, but for "all comers" lists it will generally be the Crusader. Godhammer will only make appearances when I need some extra Anti-tank at range(which is rare).

notabot187 wrote:I prefer the Crusader. It can move 6 and fire everything, has expanded capacity, and its guns can torrent away pesky xenos and even marines. The range issue of the redeemer is what kills it for me.

this is pretty much how I look at the debate. Ive had crusaders vomit bolter rounds into my mobs and its abit scary

Crusader is best all-round imho, plus it has the highest transport capacity.

Crusader it is then, roll on pay day

I would say only use a Crusader over a redeemer if you are using the Crusaders full capacity. If you are only transporting 12 or less, then go with the redeemer.

For pure offensive output the Redeemer is by far better then the Crusader. The crusader may be able to fire everything moving 6", but you have to remember its firing pea shooters. Anything that it could actually threaten with its str 4 AP 5 is probably going to get a 4+ cover save anyway. Very underwhelming weapon and it costs more too.

The redeemer on the other hand has STR 6 AP 3 templates. In a game that is dominated by MEQ and Cover, the redeemer is a no-brainer. Very few weapons can nearly wipe out a full 10 man squad of MEQ with no cover or armor saves taken. Str 6 will also instagib and deny FnP T3, so its good against Dark Eldar and similiar opponents. I have watched a player using 40 power armor marines at 1k, and get tabled because the enemy had a redeemer.

I use both variants (Crusader for the transport capacity), and the most I have ever killed with the crusader is a small handfull of infantry and the odd tank. I have had games where the redeemer has taken out 15 MEQ or 29 GEQ in a single round of shooting. It is a very potent assault vehicle, although it sometimes gets immobilized early where its weapons are useless (Crusader has this problem to a degree).

I would strongly suggest a Redeemer if transporting 12 or under, and a Crusader only if you need the higher capacity.

I switch it up a lot (magnetize) depending on what I'm missing in the list. I prefer the crusader.. yes the Templates can kill lots of things. But I have to be really close to do that and if I move than I can't really fire much else. while one template CAN while a squad of marines, it won't necessarily slaughter anything and everything. Yes the crusader is shooting bolters, but bolters are str 4. They're not exactly bad, they can wound a multitude of things. 12'' range you can shoot 12 shots + Assault cannon + MM + Storm bolter... And shoot one of the guns toward an additional target... Thats 19 shots in a turn. I like more dice more chances. Thats my preference though so...idk.

Another thing to keep in mind between the redeemer and crusader is enemy melta. A crusader doesn't have to close much to be able to fire to nearly full effect. A redeemer has to really get stuck into the enemy to do much. Getting that close sets you up for melta, which isn't much impressed by AV 14. I've seen many a redeemer killed after one offensive turn with it due to this, where a crusader can stand off and wait some. A crusader with termies is more of a midfield unit, and the cargo for counter assault to support this. Since midfield is where marines tend to thrive, I like the crusader.

If you prefer a more aggressive stance, and don't mind using marines like orks, then go ahead and get stuck in. Just expect to take more losses this way. This style of play tends to produce more massacres (either side) than the midfield or long range approach the crusader and standard Land Raiders encourage. A template and assault based army can be devastating, but can often be outplayed and made to look silly by a more maneuverable and longer ranged opponent (or by movement denial techniques).

I feel that the redeemer is a powerful weapon, but suicides too often to be worth the points. Remember, that tac squad you just flamed only cost 170 points compared to the 240+ you paid for the redeemer.

You noted that you lack Long Fangs, and as such I might recommend the good ole lascannon raider. If you're lacking long-fangs it might be what you need for anti-tank. Really, it boils down to what you need this army, and the lascannon raider might not be a bad choice for you.

This IS a tough call, maybe play test with some friends with a lascannon proxy (just get a cardboard box or something) and see which one YOU like the best. IMHO, play-testing can tell you more about you and your army than anything else can.

if you plan on getting long fangs then go crusader/redeemer.
id magnetise the sponsons weapons so you can change it to suit the game. you can play test both variants. you may find that at lower points games you prefer one type and at higher points another, its really list dependent and opponant dependent.

Magnetising and friction fitting is always the way to go, models are more cost effective and worth more on resale.

I say get the basic Land Raider. The Phobos still has its uses after all. Make sure you magnetize the weapons though. Then invest in the Crusader/redeemer upgrade pack. It should get you a little more flexibility than getting just the crusader/redeemer.
Why be stuck with just 1 kit?

Cheers,
~Volkan

Thanks for all the advice

How far do you plan to move your landraider on a given turn?


0" ) Godhammer (Lascannons). If you are playing a gunline army, and want a counter charge unit, but do not want to give up your firepower, then this is the way to go. 2x TL lascannons are the best long range guns you can get on the Land Raider. Sit and shoot, and then move up to assault on turn 3 or 4

1"-6") Crusader. If you have an army full of other shooty vehicles that move, (Assault Cannon Razors for instance) than this tank is the way to go. Move 6" and fire Assault+Hurrcane at infantry, and PotMS the Multi-Melta at a tank. Best option for support in a razorback list.

7"-12") Redeemer. If you are playing a more assault based list where most of your vehicles more 12" (Greyhunters in Rhinos maybe?) than this is the way to go. You can fire one gun after moving 12" and you have a choice of very deadly short range guns. Also, once you reach the enemy lines, you can move 6" and Flamestorm one unit on either side of the land raider. This option is the most risky, as your Land Raider gets into melta range, but also has a high potential reward.

Good to see your going for the Crusader. mate. We'll have team ours together on the next apocalypse game and cuase havoc.