Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Following this years price hike due to tax levels increasing, and no doubt additional price rises in future months/years, I was wondering when it would get to the point that GW eventually priced themselves out of the market.

When will it come to the point that people just say "how much? im not paying that for a model kit" or something similar, for instance GW recent price increases put the price of a 5 man devastator squad up to £20.50 in the UK that £4.10 per model, quite expensive really if you think about it.

Im collecting the entire 2nd company of space marines with additional tanks etc the same as the picture in the codex space marines and this will cost somewhere in the region of £1,200(if you bought it all from GW) to build let alone the paint and glue and time put into it. thats a heck alot of money for what is simply some plastic/metal models.

Now I know that if I dont like the idea of paying that much then I dont have to get into the hobby, but I have, I also shop around for alot of stuff cheaper than GW prices, I was just wondering when would it get to the point for some of you to say enough is enough and not to buy anymore?

Ellis

when it starts to be a question of models or rent. But it shouldn't get that bad, i like the hobby, even if gw buys it, more then likely some other company will try to buy the rights to warhammer/ 40K ad they'll get it at clearance pricing and prices may drop by the buyout. And anyways. There are tons of 28mm miniature makers out there at competitive prices. Shoot, i still can get warzone models and they went out of business half a decade ago.

One of the great things about it is that an army is essentially a one-time expense. Once you buy a model, you can use it for years and years, with the only real expenses being a new codex/army book, and a few new models each edition. Once you're established in it, assuming you don't go new-army-crazy, it really isn't all that expensive.

Of course, this is just for playing. If you buy models to paint, you should probably be looking at ranges outside of GW...

There won't be an absolute cut off point for most people. They will just reduce their buying, or perhaps switch to cheaper games.

Last year's price increase got me to start buying as much as possible second hand. £27 for three Raveners made me raise my eyebrows and shut my wallet.

I still buy some new stuff, if I have to, but I'm very careful with my buying.

Take comfort from the fact that GW isn't the only game in the world and most other genres are quite a bit cheaper. If you have to give up GW completely, there are plenty of alternatives.

If my allocation of disposable income set aside for wargaming failed to offer significant return then I guess I would find something else to do.

GW's 'The Hobby' (TM) and 'The Hobby' are two totally distinct things. 'The Hobby' is rich with affordable and well supported game systems, and always will be.

when the money im spending no longer gives me enjoyment from playing the game.

GW can double their prices and people will keep buying if its something they like.

I believe OP is really asking when will GW become too expensive, which is a discussion most of us have already had or read here.
The wargamming hobby in general (as opposed to solely GW) isn't overly expensive. Indeed, barring extraordinary circumstances, it will never be too expensive to play 15mm ancients for example.

I'm at the stage where the cost of an item really does influence whether I include it in my army. I actually look at it in terms of how many points do I get for my pounds e.g. whilst I don't play Space Marines, would I fork out £20.00 for a Rhino when it only fills out 35 points of my army? Not a chance.

Like KK, I focus on shopping around for second hand stuff. This week, I wanted some Guardians and wasn't going to pay £20 for them, so I pulled up every Guardian squad sale on ebay and watched them all week until I found one at the right price (not as time consuming as it sounds). Including postage, I got them for £11.50, which is roughly a 40% discount.

Same as above really. every time GW chose to raise prices, more people take a step back and make decisions based on that. Some stop playing all together, some switch to other systems, some only buy second hand. Personally, I stopped buying new GW product after last year's price rise. It good to see that decision vindicated since the further increases and VAT rise. I only buy stuff from ebay now.

The sticker shock drives me to make smaller purchases.

The introductory set Assault on Black Reach was in my opinion a reasonable purchase.

Subsequent purchases for retail value have left me questioning my own sanity.

Ergo, second hand market and trading miniatures for ones I need.

As well as being too expensive to continue the hobby, I think the biggest problem will be in terms of getting new players to begin. Looking at the new WFB and O&G army as way of example, the change of rules which now gives bias towards large blocks of infantry, as well as their corresponding increase in price, could well be a killer. A large block of bog standard orcs now stands at around $100, which I think is utterly insane considering GW's strategy of setting their sights on the younger gamer.

Aside from price, I also think the movement of emphasis firmly away from skirmish warfare and towards 'apocalypse' style games (in both 40k and WFB) I think is enough to put off anyone wanting to start a new army, in that the experience is akin to being stood at the base of a mountain - it will take a hell of a lot of both patience and determination to play either game as GW intends and with a finished army, and unfortunately I think a number of people just aren't going to bother.

Granted, I understand that it is an expensive hobby and we pay way too much for little plastic soldiers. Having said that, it becomes too expensive for the hobby when a person simply can't afford it.

But, GW can't stop the secondary market and it's the way a lot of folks have turned towards to make their purchases.

Personally it depends on what part of 'the hobby' your looking at. I just droppped £200+ on resin bases for one army. Forgeworld is another place I don't mind paying the prices. £18 for 10 orc boyz however is a different matter. When I saw the change to the box size I made sure I got the last few 19 strong boxes availible locally. It basically boils down to rank and file V's special pieces. Kinda glad I started the traditional horde armies a while back as there's not a lot of chance I'd start them now.

Yeah when you have been collection for some decades you have options on your collections to cover your hobby for a lifetime, although people change and even the oldest more hardcore player in the past gets fed up of constant price rises and rules shifting to push you to change your units to bigger sizes etc... For me personally it will be to expensive when I cant afford Greenstuff and unless the world changes a LOT I think I'm covered for the rest of my life since GS is not that expensive.

As far as "gw hobby" this year I looked at my collections and started to feel like they were a burden to have rather than a enjoyment and even considered to sell most of it... Constrained myself from selling but dont know if I will manage to keep them in the future...
The price for individual miniatures is not shocking if you only have to buy 1 of them but the problem are the rules that push you to buy 10x the same thing.

They are already too expensive fro my tastes, I have the very occasional treat from GW like a christmas present. Everything is bought second hand.

There won't be a cut off for most, people will just adjust their purchases accordingly. I don't know what GW's thinking is with repackaging the Orc boyz. Do they expect people will now simply pay almost twice as much and buy two boxes just to get the number of figures they could a month ago? I don't think it will work like that, most people just accept getting less for their money. GW may be some people's crack, but most don't instantly start pouring in substantially more money to keep getting the same fix, they will accept getting less for the same expenditure.

Their pricing makes it difficult to collect swarm armies, it's no wonder space marines are popular.

I would say that as long as there are people who collect the Ultramarine's entire 2nd company then GW's prospects for tomarrow are looking pretty fair.

They have already priced themselves out of the market
Take one look at their sales reports

The only reason it doesn't look as bad as it actually is, is because of the cost cuts which mask the problem

When the problem finally becomes to large for them to keep ignoring it, it may be too late to fix it

I have no doubt people will keep buying their products no matter how expensive it gets, but that market will keep diminishing with every price increase

Take for example the reduction of the Orc Boyz in Fantasy
Instead of the 20 units , now its 10 units for the exact same price with no change at all

Now combine that with the fact they are a horde army, that you need tons of these guys to make a substantial force according to the rules they set.

Not only does it become ridiculous for current players, but it wares new players off entirely because they cannot get anything resembling a decent sized force without burning a hole in their wallets

I don't buy new figures just because I think they look cool anymore, they have to have some use.
But I already have a boatload of figures so its not that big of a deal.
Most of my purchases are made with gift certificates from Christmas or my B-Day.

But the hobby will really become too expensive when my wife finds out just how much I've spent on this stuff over the years.

snurl wrote:But the hobby will really become too expensive when my wife finds out just how much I've spent on this stuff over the years.

Probably the same amount she spends on clothes and shoes. Men and women are not all that different really

at the moment im discusted with what gw are charging for models.i know costs rise im not stupid but it seems we are paying a lot for i little i mean £27.70 for a five man terminator squad is ridiculus.you will get people telling you its not that much really in the grand scheme of things but i disagree.
gw seem to be charging more money for units that are more points expensive but little more in the way of actual materiel cost ie plastic.i don't see why a five man terminator squad should cost more than a ten man tactical squad,surely its about the same amount of materials to make,plastics packaging etc.
i may be coming over as anti gw or a tight arse but im really not i love both 40k and fantasy and have spent a lot of time and money on my hobby but i think eventually im going to get put off buying.for new people starting the hobby i think expense is going to affect numbers too.
feel free to hammer me if you think im a grumpy git.

I lost a quarter of my income a couple of years ago, so now I'm not buying any more GW stuff until I sell my chaos space marines. (Hint hint!!!)

shingouki wrote:gw seem to be charging more money for units that are more points expensive but little more in the way of actual materiel cost ie plastic.i don't see why a five man terminator squad should cost more than a ten man tactical squad,surely its about the same amount of materials to make,plastics packaging etc.

Funny, this is the one thing I like about GW. It infuriates me that Privateer Press basically charges for models by weight.

I am not buying pewter or plastic by the kilo here, I'm buying two things: art pieces and functional game elements. They should be priced according to their their usefulness, how hard they were to produce, and how many they intend to sell. Raw material makes up such a small fraction of production costs that it shouldn't be a factor most of the time, certainly with plastic.

Saying that they should charge the same for a sprue of Termies and a sprue of Grots is to me the same nonsense as saying they should charge the same for Honda and a BMW because they are made from the same amount of material.

I might only get a pot of paint in store as its more cost effective and quicker than ordering it online. Other that that I'll use the local modelzone and ebay, wayland or whatever to order my stuff.

Warmahordes is pricey now but mantic aren't nor are a plethora of other skirmish-y games.

That said I'm not liking the new fantasy - too much 'slam blocks of over priced minis together' so I think my current army will be my last foray as the 'Fun:£' ratio isn't there for me and I think the Fun to £ ratio is important.
I honestly think I've had more fun with things like Gorkamorka and Mordheim which were lots of fun for the cost involved.

lord_blackfang wrote:

shingouki wrote:gw seem to be charging more money for units that are more points expensive but little more in the way of actual materiel cost ie plastic.i don't see why a five man terminator squad should cost more than a ten man tactical squad,surely its about the same amount of materials to make,plastics packaging etc.

Funny, this is the one thing I like about GW. It infuriates me that Privateer Press basically charges for models by weight.

I am not buying pewter or plastic by the kilo here, I'm buying two things: art pieces and functional game elements. They should be priced according to their their usefulness, how hard they were to produce, and how many they intend to sell. Raw material makes up such a small fraction of production costs that it shouldn't be a factor most of the time, certainly with plastic.

Saying that they should charge the same for a sprue of Termies and a sprue of Grots is to me the same nonsense as saying they should charge the same for Honda and a BMW because they are made from the same amount of material.

I disagree with you, these are not pieces of art and just fancy gaming tokens for you to paint... so rather prefer to buy based on material costs ( wich are quite diferent depending on the size of metal miniatures) than on subjective notions of art... because if you go there the prices will skyrocket...

Phototoxin wrote:I might only get a pot of paint in store as its more cost effective and quicker than ordering it online. Other that that I'll use the local modelzone and ebay, wayland or whatever to order my stuff.

Warmahordes is pricey now but mantic aren't nor are a plethora of other skirmish-y games.

That said I'm not liking the new fantasy - too much 'slam blocks of over priced minis together' so I think my current army will be my last foray as the 'Fun:£' ratio isn't there for me and I think the Fun to £ ratio is important.
I honestly think I've had more fun with things like Gorkamorka and Mordheim which were lots of fun for the cost involved.

Certainly the case, they have gone further and further away from the concept of having fun with a good game and a small number of figures to making the armies as big as possible requiring many more figures. Yet they've slimmed down the regiment boxes so that you have to buy everything piecemeal at great cost. The old regiment boxes aren't even regiment boxes any more, 10 imperial guard, 10 orcs. You need heaps of these, these boxes are pointless.

Obviously GW want to make more money; increasing prices or encouraging people to invest in bigger armies and thus make more purchases both seem sensible strategies. But applying both tactics at the same time and to a rather extreme extent is asking rather a lot - expecting people not only to buy many more figures but pay much more per figure.

Sure, the economy plays a part in the pricing of GW products, but it is interesting to note, not only the “gentle” price rise, but also the conscious reduction in what you get for your money.

In contrast there seems to be a general rise in recognition of these economic factors from other gaming companies, who either produce “lower end” miniatures that still require horde armies, but at a lower cost (like Mantic) or companies like Corvus belli, who make super high end miniatures at a high cost per model, yet you need much fewer of them to play the game, MERCS is the same.

It seems as though GW has painted itself into a corner of their own making. Right now GW are charging for a basic plastic miniature not far off what you’d pay for a high end miniature from Corvus Belli, Studio McVey, MERCS or Hassellfree, yet look at the design and quality of the miniature you’d be buying?!? add to that the fact that you need so many of them to play a game and you have a recipe for disaster!

My spending habits have changed from buying everything that looks cool, to just things I really need for the army that i'm working on. Less unopened boxes lying around the house etc. I still like going down to my local GW and buying over the counter when I need to rather than ebay/internet sales though. Maybe thats just my impatience waiting on stuff!

NAVARRO wrote:I disagree with you, these are not pieces of art and just fancy gaming tokens for you to paint... so rather prefer to buy based on material costs ( wich are quite diferent depending on the size of metal miniatures) than on subjective notions of art... because if you go there the prices will skyrocket...

Okay, let's go with fancy gaming tokens. It seems unfair to me that fancy gaming tokens of fat people cost more than fancy gaming tokens of skinny people, even if they're the same in game terms.

lord_blackfang wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:I disagree with you, these are not pieces of art and just fancy gaming tokens for you to paint... so rather prefer to buy based on material costs ( wich are quite diferent depending on the size of metal miniatures) than on subjective notions of art... because if you go there the prices will skyrocket...

Okay, let's go with fancy gaming tokens. It seems unfair to me that fancy gaming tokens of fat people cost more than fancy gaming tokens of skinny people, even if they're the same in game terms.

So it seems fair to you a 1 kg fat mamouth costs you the same a 1gram skinny ant just because as you say "they do the same" thing gamewise? That makes no sense mate.

Yea, gw is started to get a bit ridiculous, i can see 100$ landraiders within 3 years at the rate they increase their prices.

As for myself, i'm friends with an flgs owner from a state i moved out of, so i get 20% off, free shipping and no sales tax as he has no operational presence in my state. Taking the shipping and tax into account its almost 40% off retail.