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Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Is anyone else wondering if they're going to go with shapes over distances for this one? Or proprietary dice, or cards? GW ain't one to sell you one book and let you just play.

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Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It’s not like people were happy when Empire State Troops were redone, either. And having new core units didn’t make empire players any happier to see new things in their army.

If Tomb Kings core units were redone how many Tomb Kings players would have (still) bought cheaper used models instead?


Considering how much money people are willing to pay for those old crappy core models to this day - quite a few.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





GW did that through the End Times, the kits didn't sell


Granted no one of us has access to any sales data, in my region the stores all sold out of most of the end times books and kits.

They were pretty hot.

And then there was a lot of rage when suddenly that was it, and AOS showed up.
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

chaos0xomega wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It’s not like people were happy when Empire State Troops were redone, either. And having new core units didn’t make empire players any happier to see new things in their army.

If Tomb Kings core units were redone how many Tomb Kings players would have (still) bought cheaper used models instead?


Considering how much money people are willing to pay for those old crappy core models to this day - quite a few.


So, let me get this straight.

WHFB players hated new minis and new ideas because they wanted the core units redone. They didn’t want to buy bad core sculpts.”

WHFB players are paying through the nose for bad core sculpts now that they know there won’t ever be better core units.”

Man, how did WHFB ever get a bad reputation?

   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 auticus wrote:
GW did that through the End Times, the kits didn't sell


Granted no one of us has access to any sales data, in my region the stores all sold out of most of the end times books and kits.

They were pretty hot.

And then there was a lot of rage when suddenly that was it, and AOS showed up.

They were "pretty hot" because people kept hyping them up as suuuuuper broken and GW seemed to underestimate the demand for the books at least.

End Times: Khaine, for example, sold out in 2 minutes on the US website.
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





Maybe. I dont remember the hype as super broken. I remember that when Nagash came out he was sold out pretty immediately. I do remember Khaine book selling out immediately as well and scalpers making a sweet mint off of jacking the prices for it on ebay. It could have been because people thought it was broken and they were tuning up for their next season tournament lists with them. Its just been like six years or so since that happened and I dont recall.

Ultimately howerver there was a huge demand for the product considering most of 8th edition warhammer didn't get much of anything at all and people were genuinely excited that there was new product and a new era coming (of course we didn't realize that that new era was the removal of rank and file game and replaced with ... what it was replaced with - the total opposite of what anyone that enjoyed whfb wanted to play). It was by far NOT something that just sat around not moving in general. I'm sure there were places in the world where whfb was not a thing at all and stores carrying it would struggle to move it however.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 17:52:50


 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Kanluwen wrote:
 auticus wrote:
GW did that through the End Times, the kits didn't sell


Granted no one of us has access to any sales data, in my region the stores all sold out of most of the end times books and kits.

They were pretty hot.

And then there was a lot of rage when suddenly that was it, and AOS showed up.

They were "pretty hot" because people kept hyping them up as suuuuuper broken and GW seemed to underestimate the demand for the books at least.

End Times: Khaine, for example, sold out in 2 minutes on the US website.


So, just like every 40k release then.

Perhaps if GW did market research (the CEO bragged that they did none in a letter to investors) it wouldn't have been caught by surprise that when you make something that people want, it sells.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight






I mean 9th Age exists. Warhammer Classic, a bi yearly magazine and community that plays older editions. I believe there is another as well. Plenty seem to continue the old community.

As well older models from Fantasy are expensive on Ebay. Men At Arms being a high priced item along with any 6th Edition Knights, though increasingly 5th Edition Knights are going up in price. Tomb Kings are outrageously expensive.

As well, even if it is a dead game that has been killed more that 5+ years ago now, l there is a growing market of resin model makers such as Highland Miniatures among others that are making models inspired by WHFB. It wasn't too long ago that searching Tomb Kings on Ebay gave the first three options as 3rd party model makers making an updated twist. Hell I bought for 20 bucks a cool looking Liche priest on a mummy camal, and it was decent quality too.

"Don't Feed the Troll"

ETC is the forum equivalent of a short bus. 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 Kanluwen wrote:
 auticus wrote:
GW did that through the End Times, the kits didn't sell


Granted no one of us has access to any sales data, in my region the stores all sold out of most of the end times books and kits.

They were pretty hot.

And then there was a lot of rage when suddenly that was it, and AOS showed up.

They were "pretty hot" because people kept hyping them up as suuuuuper broken and GW seemed to underestimate the demand for the books at least.

End Times: Khaine, for example, sold out in 2 minutes on the US website.


"End Times stuff only sold out because it was broken!" Love how those goal posts keep getting shifted. No matter *why* it sold out, it still sold out lightning fast. That kind of kills the "b-b-but none bought new WHFB releases!" I'm sure it's just a coincidence that after the End Times GW began pushing a much more aggressive release cycle for both 40k and into AoS.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 18:56:56


 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





Please don't feth the sculpts up, GW...
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

I didn't play during 8th but i remember one of the bigger fantasy podcasts (garagehammer maybe?) Break down the 8th release schedule.

It was crazy. Immediate long stretches of nothing. 8 months between the edition and the first Army Book!

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





 Eldarain wrote:
I didn't play during 8th but i remember one of the bigger fantasy podcasts (garagehammer maybe?) Break down the 8th release schedule.

It was crazy. Immediate long stretches of nothing. 8 months between the edition and the first Army Book!


Yep. It was awful.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 Kanluwen wrote:
 auticus wrote:
GW did that through the End Times, the kits didn't sell


Granted no one of us has access to any sales data, in my region the stores all sold out of most of the end times books and kits.

They were pretty hot.

And then there was a lot of rage when suddenly that was it, and AOS showed up.

They were "pretty hot" because people kept hyping them up as suuuuuper broken and GW seemed to underestimate the demand for the books at least.

End Times: Khaine, for example, sold out in 2 minutes on the US website.


Yeah, don't confuse "it sold out because demand was super high" for "it sold out because they didn't make enough of them".

Kit wise, most of the stores in the area seemed to still have the same kits they brought in during The End Times release months into the launch of AoS, I think for the most part things only really started moving off the shelves once the GHB came out. Personally, I can also remember how much bitching and whinging there was over the Nagash sculpt too.

As for the books, yeah they dramatically underproduced on them, my primary local was only able to get 1-2 copies of each, those definitely sold out fast on the first print run - but the second print run of each book (released before it became clear they nuked the game) mostly sat on shelves.

Ultimately howerver there was a huge demand for the product considering most of 8th edition warhammer didn't get much of anything at all and people were genuinely excited that there was new product and a new era coming


Stop it.

Plenty came out in 8th, heres an incomplete list:

Island of Blood
Orcs & Goblins (new Savage Orc boys, Boar Riders, Arachnarok Spider, River Trolls, ~3 characters/heroes)
Tomb Kings (Tomb Guard, Sphinxes, Necropolis Knights/Sepulcharal Stalkers, ~3 characters/heroes)
Ogre Kingdoms (Mournfang Cav, Ironblaster/Scraplauncher, Stonehorn/Thundertusk, ~3 characters/heroes)
Vampire Counts (Coven Throne/Mortis Engine/Bloodseeker Palanquin, Vargheists/Crypt Horrors/Crypt Flayers, Black Knights/Hexwraiths, ~3 characters/heroes)
The Empire (Celestial Hurricanum/Luminark of Hyish/Volkmar the Grim on War Altar, Karl Franz on Griffon/Empire hero on Griffon, Demigryph Knights, Greatswords, ~6 other characters/heroes)
Warriors of Chaos (Throgg, Dragon Ogres, Mutalith/Slaughterbrute, Chariots, Skullcrushers, Hellstriders, Forsaken, ~6 new characters/heroes)
Daemons of Chaos (Plague Drones, Blood Throne/Skull Cannon, Burning Chariot, plastic Heralds - plastic infantry and other updated daemons kits were released as part of the 40k daemons update previously)
High Elves (Lothern Skycutter, Flamespyre/Frostheart Phoenix, Shadow Warriors/Sisters of Avelorn, ~3 characters/heroes)
Lizardmen (Saurus on Carnosaur/Troglodon, Bastiladon, Terradon Riders/Ripperdactlys, Razordon, Salamander, characters)
Dark Elves (Dark Riders/Doomfire Warlocks, Scourgerunner Chariot/Cold-One Chariot, Executioners/Black Guard, Darkshards/Dreadspears/Bleakswords, Corsairs, Cold One Knights, Hydra/Kharibdyss, Black Dragon, ~3 characters)

There were also the below but Im not interested in continuing to dig up data on what was redone and released new for them:

Dwarfs
Wood Elves
Storm of Magic
Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos (Nurgled Daemons, Legion Azgorh/Chaos Dwarves)
Blood in the Badlands
Monstrous Arcanum
Triumph & Treachery
Sigmars Blood

There were a number of digital supplements and such released as well. Again, this was comparable level of support to what 40k received in that same timeframe. This whole "GW released nothing for 5 years leading into the End Times" is an absolute myth unsubstantiated by actual events.

Interestingly, while compiling this list, I found a very large amount of complaints about virtually *all* of the new minis and complaints from the community about how it was "jumping the shark" or being "WOWified". Very little positivity. The WHFB community got what it deserved.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 20:02:12


This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Wood Elves got four new kits, all told.
Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers double kit
Araloth
Wild Riders/Sisters of the Thorn double kit
Treelord/Durthu/Treelord Ancient triple kit
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

My frustration came from both ends. WHFB players hated everything new or interesting and sabotaged any attempt to introduce new life into the game/setting. At the same time, each release had at least one mini I would have loved to buy if only the price were a bit closer to reasonable.

   
Made in ca
Dangerous Skeleton Champion





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It’s not like people were happy when Empire State Troops were redone, either. And having new core units didn’t make empire players any happier to see new things in their army.

If Tomb Kings core units were redone how many Tomb Kings players would have (still) bought cheaper used models instead?


Tons would buy the new sculps. People are not afraid of spending money on models. Take a look at what a box of tomb king skeletons, chariots and horsemen go for now. Do you think that nobody would buy those if GW released them tomorrow?

I don't know where this whole fantasy players are cheap thing comes from, because it's not accurate. Again, take a look at what people are paying, right now, for fantasy models and tell me that there's no market for new stuff. There's a reason that there are so many fantasy Kickstarters right now.

Shocking news folks, wargamers keep buying models and armies, despite the fact that they don't need them, or probably have time to paint them all.

Necrons
Imperial Knights
Orcs and Goblins
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





I played 6th and 8th Ed WFB (Solid game) but I prefer Kings of War over the others. So much freedom in KOW to base and use what miniatures you have. All of the AOS minis could be used in KOW easily. Keep your dudes on round or square it doesn't matter. Just my opinion is all.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

chaos0xomega wrote:

Plenty came out in 8th, heres an incomplete list:

Island of Blood
Orcs & Goblins (new Savage Orc boys, Boar Riders, Arachnarok Spider, River Trolls, ~3 characters/heroes)
Tomb Kings (Tomb Guard, Sphinxes, Necropolis Knights/Sepulcharal Stalkers, ~3 characters/heroes)
Ogre Kingdoms (Mournfang Cav, Ironblaster/Scraplauncher, Stonehorn/Thundertusk, ~3 characters/heroes)
Vampire Counts (Coven Throne/Mortis Engine/Bloodseeker Palanquin, Vargheists/Crypt Horrors/Crypt Flayers, Black Knights/Hexwraiths, ~3 characters/heroes)
The Empire (Celestial Hurricanum/Luminark of Hyish/Volkmar the Grim on War Altar, Karl Franz on Griffon/Empire hero on Griffon, Demigryph Knights, Greatswords, ~6 other characters/heroes)
Warriors of Chaos (Throgg, Dragon Ogres, Mutalith/Slaughterbrute, Chariots, Skullcrushers, Hellstriders, Forsaken, ~6 new characters/heroes)
Daemons of Chaos (Plague Drones, Blood Throne/Skull Cannon, Burning Chariot, plastic Heralds - plastic infantry and other updated daemons kits were released as part of the 40k daemons update previously)
High Elves (Lothern Skycutter, Flamespyre/Frostheart Phoenix, Shadow Warriors/Sisters of Avelorn, ~3 characters/heroes)
Lizardmen (Saurus on Carnosaur/Troglodon, Bastiladon, Terradon Riders/Ripperdactlys, Razordon, Salamander, characters)
Dark Elves (Dark Riders/Doomfire Warlocks, Scourgerunner Chariot/Cold-One Chariot, Executioners/Black Guard, Darkshards/Dreadspears/Bleakswords, Corsairs, Cold One Knights, Hydra/Kharibdyss, Black Dragon, ~3 characters)


yeah, so Dark Elves, Vampires and Daemons were the only ones that got a new core, everyone else did not
confirming what we said above, the need to buy outdated models to fill the core that was needed to play the shiny new stuff

and why did this not affect 40k?
because half of the releases there are different Space Marine factions models, and it was nor problem to use them for all Marines
Dark Angels got new Bikes, of course everyone bought the new DA Bikes to use them instead of the faction specific outdated plastic with metal parts, and White Scars had no problem filling their core with new models
New Tactical Box for Ultras? Space Wolves, Blood Angles, Dark Angels bought them as well to fill up the core

Meanwhile Eldar, which got a lot of new stuff so must sell really well by your logic, yet they still need the 20 year old models to fill the core to play the shiny new stuff
all but 3 armies were treated like Eldar in 40k now and my unkown reason all of them sold as well as Eldar are now

I guess this must be because no one likes Eldar, so best GW should remove them from the game they won't be missed as no one plays them anyway

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

@ Space Egyptian

You’re talking about a few dozen Oldhammer/nostalgia purchases of a dwindling scarcity, which is quite different from people supporting a current product range. By your logic, AT-43 should come back, and with the same prepaints, because prices skyrocketed after Miniature Market cleared out their warehouse.

You can go through all the old threads and count how many players refused to support any new items until the core troops were updated, as well as how many people refused to buy updated EST and Dwarf Warriors because they were different/bad.

Edit: I forgot how many people also refused to buy new daemonettes, Bloodletters (at first) and Tzeentchy guys. And the new dark elves core monopose miniatures. Super successful strategy though because it worked for Vampire Counts.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 20:23:14


   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

the new Dwarf Elite units had 2 problems, their design did not fit well with the old Warrior models you needed to fill the core

and they did not fit 20mm bases at all so were nearly impossible to rank up

which somes up the whole problem of 8th, but during that time GW already worked on Sigmarines anyway

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 kodos wrote:
the new Dwarf Elite units had 2 problems, their design did not fit well with the old Warrior models you needed to fill the core

and they did not fit 20mm bases at all so were nearly impossible to rank up

which somes up the whole problem of 8th, but during that time GW already worked on Sigmarines anyway


Before the dwarf elites, people hated the dwarf warriors that came out last, with the torso front/face combo bits. Because they weren’t the previous plastics.

   
Made in ca
Dangerous Skeleton Champion





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
@ Space Egyptian

You’re talking about a few dozen Oldhammer/nostalgia purchases of a dwindling scarcity, which is quite different from people supporting a current product range. By your logic, AT-43 should come back, and with the same prepaints, because prices skyrocketed after Miniature Market cleared out their warehouse.

You can go through all the old threads and count how many players refused to support any new items until the core troops were updated, as well as how many people refused to buy updated EST and Dwarf Warriors because they were different/bad.


We'll see. I think anyone who is still buying stuff, and willing to pay that kind of money, will buy the new things when they come out. I'm sure you are right and there were a bunch of people who didn't like the new stuff, but there are also going to be plenty of people who want new models.

Necrons
Imperial Knights
Orcs and Goblins
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

We were mostly discussing the demise of WHFB. For the new game, I suppose it depends on how much new blood they can get and how much the old fan base approves of the new sculpts, two areas the old world has historically struggled.

I’m sure the first year or two will be very successful, if only because GW has really hot its marketing down now. Whether the game will last once it requires community commitment…I have doubts, depending on how GW handle the situation.

   
Made in ca
Dangerous Skeleton Champion





If nothing else, they'll make a lot of money in the short term and release some nice sculpts. I'll take that regardless. They need to release a fun game that's easy to get into, but if they do there might be space for both it and AoS.

Necrons
Imperial Knights
Orcs and Goblins
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





Stop it.

Plenty came out in 8th, heres an incomplete list:


lol. Just lol. Especially compared to what 40k was getting. Tying into:

The WHFB community got what it deserved.


Yeah. The WHFB wasn't interested in a masters of the universe he-man marvel superhero type setting. You're right.

And they got what they deserved. Because they didn't want that, they got their game blown up and taken away.

lol

Man its like stuff like that contributes to why people who don't like AOS also want to be nasty with the aos sycophant's that love AOS.

Because we get told we get what we deserve because we didn't want AOS style models or rules.

Maybe if we're lucky they'll take your AOS away. Then we can gauge the response to that?
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 kodos wrote:
the new Dwarf Elite units had 2 problems, their design did not fit well with the old Warrior models you needed to fill the core

and they did not fit 20mm bases at all so were nearly impossible to rank up

which somes up the whole problem of 8th, but during that time GW already worked on Sigmarines anyway


Before the dwarf elites, people hated the dwarf warriors that came out last, with the torso front/face combo bits. Because they weren’t the previous plastics.


the main complain about those was that the 2 boxes, warriors and gunners were not compatible with each other

while similar made with front-beard and back-body the front parts of the one box did not fit the back of the other
and in addition this were the boxes were dwarfs lost their knees

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
My frustration came from both ends. WHFB players hated everything new or interesting and sabotaged any attempt to introduce new life into the game/setting. At the same time, each release had at least one mini I would have loved to buy if only the price were a bit closer to reasonable.


Depends. If the new stuff is garbage then it is prudent to say "NO!" in order to protect the setting. Units like High Elf sky chariots were just trash.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 auticus wrote:
Stop it.

Plenty came out in 8th, heres an incomplete list:


lol. Just lol. Especially compared to what 40k was getting. Tying into:




lol. Just lol. One of us actually has facts on their side in the form of a real release schedule and proof of support. The other just has hurt feelings and a false perspective of reality.

Maybe if we're lucky they'll take your AOS away. Then we can gauge the response to that?


Won't happen, people actually buy Age of Sigmar minis and don't overwhelmingly gak on everything released for it.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

chaos0xomega wrote:

Won't happen, people actually buy Age of Sigmar minis and don't overwhelmingly gak on everything released for it.


There's an entire market of people who gak on AoS minis and don't buy any of them. lol

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 21:57:29


Old World Prediction: The Empire will have Clockwork Paragon Warsuits 
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







See the WFB from where I came from was open to change and much more dynamic and large than the 40k one soooooo my vast know how will let me conclude WFB was doing better than the 40k grumpy bunch... right? sarcasm.

How about you guys stop saying things you know jack about? Voices in your local tournaments or even worse voices online are just a that... dont represent anything.

Got what they deserved? No one knows the "they" not even GW. So yeah pointless argument.


   
 
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