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Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
If you had "GW acknowledges Core in an article while in the same goddamn sentence rolling out a universal buff strat" please mark your bingo cards accordingly.


So we're clear, the thing being complained about here is a Relic Banner for an Ancient.

A. Relic. Banner.
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






Most of that article showed stuff we already knew.
I assume that, as they said that they’re talking about Death Company tomorrow, the new Death Visions will be talked about tomorrow.
   
Made in us
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle




Did you miss the 1CP army wide stratagem mate?
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






The strat only happens on an unmodified 6 to wound so it doesn’t seem super powerful to me.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
Did you miss the 1CP army wide stratagem mate?


Did you miss the caveats on it?

-Only usable during Assault Doctrine
-Only triggers on unmodified 6s to Wound

It's strong, but it doesn't seem OMGBROKEN!!11!
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Y'all need to get the feth over it.
Hi. I'm HBMC and I've never played Black Templars, so really I don't have a dog in this fight.

What I despise however, is when people try to justify why others should have their army taken away, or why they shouldn't get it back.

"You've got more units!"
"Get over it!"

Y'know, gak like that.

Don't tell people they're having fun the wrong way, or that they don't deserve to have their own army, especially when it was taken away from then.



This.

At the very least, they could have gotten a dedicated spot as part of the IF supplement or their own supplement. I really don't see why they don't get a supplement when Salamanders, Raven Guard or Iron Hands do, especially with two characters with as much lore as Grimaldus and Helbrecht backing them up.

However, I do like what they did with they WD supplement, giving them unique chaplain prayers and all..
And it's not like bringing them up date wouldn't be super easy - simply mix blade guard and assault intercessors into primaris crusader unit, toss in upgrade sprue, update helbrecht and grimaldus to primaris, done. At this point one would simply have to assume that they don't want to. With the indomitus box I was seriously thinking about starting them, but with GW treating them this way, I'd have to expect them to disappear completely the second they discontinue their finecast models.

They DID get their own "supplement". It just happened to have some CSM rules in it too.

And no, Black Templar players lost nothing of value going into the main codex. You don't want Whirlwinds? Just don't take them. You didn't LOSE Sword Brethren, they're just the way better Vanguard now. As well, the only thing lost was Vows, which were dumb to begin with.

So what DID Black Templars actually lose besides Snowflake Status with Blood Angels and Dark Angels?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Kanluwen wrote:
PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
Did you miss the 1CP army wide stratagem mate?


Did you miss the caveats on it?

-Only usable during Assault Doctrine
-Only triggers on unmodified 6s to Wound

It's strong, but it doesn't seem OMGBROKEN!!11!


Also only once per game, so better time it just right.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






 Kanluwen wrote:
PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
If you had "GW acknowledges Core in an article while in the same goddamn sentence rolling out a universal buff strat" please mark your bingo cards accordingly.


So we're clear, the thing being complained about here is a Relic Banner for an Ancient.

A. Relic. Banner.


Afraid I’ve missed where that says it’s a banner that can only be taken by an Ancient.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, I could see it being a banner. But it does specify the relic is on the Marine's backpack.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 AduroT wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
If you had "GW acknowledges Core in an article while in the same goddamn sentence rolling out a universal buff strat" please mark your bingo cards accordingly.


So we're clear, the thing being complained about here is a Relic Banner for an Ancient.

A. Relic. Banner.


Afraid I’ve missed where that says it’s a banner that can only be taken by an Ancient.

That's fair, it doesn't say that. I read it focusing on the rules rather than the fluff bit and was thinking Banner rather than 'backpack reliquary'.

Point remains that it's a Relic though. It's not a piece of wargear for every single individual.

If ever there's a place for "Ignores Core"? It's on Relics.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/23 17:03:53


 
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 Kanluwen wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
If you had "GW acknowledges Core in an article while in the same goddamn sentence rolling out a universal buff strat" please mark your bingo cards accordingly.


So we're clear, the thing being complained about here is a Relic Banner for an Ancient.

A. Relic. Banner.


Afraid I’ve missed where that says it’s a banner that can only be taken by an Ancient.

That's fair, it doesn't say that. I read it focusing on the rules rather than the fluff bit and was thinking Banner rather than 'backpack reliquary'.

Point remains that it's a Relic though. It's not a piece of wargear for every single individual.

If ever there's a place for "Ignores Core"? It's on Relics.


It still seems dumb to ignore core and be any unit in 6", which you can no doubt extend or daisy chain into. Kinda goes against the 9th ed philosophy gw stated.
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






Dudeface wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
If you had "GW acknowledges Core in an article while in the same goddamn sentence rolling out a universal buff strat" please mark your bingo cards accordingly.


So we're clear, the thing being complained about here is a Relic Banner for an Ancient.

A. Relic. Banner.


Afraid I’ve missed where that says it’s a banner that can only be taken by an Ancient.

That's fair, it doesn't say that. I read it focusing on the rules rather than the fluff bit and was thinking Banner rather than 'backpack reliquary'.

Point remains that it's a Relic though. It's not a piece of wargear for every single individual.

If ever there's a place for "Ignores Core"? It's on Relics.


It still seems dumb to ignore core and be any unit in 6", which you can no doubt extend or daisy chain into. Kinda goes against the 9th ed philosophy gw stated.


Exactly, if anything it should be a targeted buff like the CM ability, where you can affect only one unit within 6". Now it's just going back to the usual holy huddle of auras/buffs that was supposed to be more limited this edition.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

It's rerolling charges.

It basically comes into play once or twice a game where everything might be packed in.

Really, really not seeing the issue here.
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 Kanluwen wrote:
It's rerolling charges.

It basically comes into play once or twice a game where everything might be packed in.

Really, really not seeing the issue here.


Because that one time it kicks in, helping 3/4 charging units is notably better than helping 1. Especially when they're dreads/tanks/assault cents/all characters.

A point of comparison, for wolves it's a warlord trait, to affect other units the warlord has to complete a charge the proceeding turn, then it only benefits core.

A relic for blood angels: "meh, any one, any time"

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/23 17:39:49


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Different subfactions are different, news at 11!

Sorry, just not seeing a real issue here. It's a Relic, meaning it's on a single character. The Wolves one being a Warlord Trait is interesting though...but Hero of the Chapter(1CP to give a Warlord Trait to a non-Warlord) does exist. Same argument can be made for "Relic of the Chapter" I guess, but there's more Relics that people usually want than there are Warlord Traits.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/23 17:44:50


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Y'all need to get the feth over it.
Hi. I'm HBMC and I've never played Black Templars, so really I don't have a dog in this fight.

What I despise however, is when people try to justify why others should have their army taken away, or why they shouldn't get it back.

"You've got more units!"
"Get over it!"

Y'know, gak like that.

Don't tell people they're having fun the wrong way, or that they don't deserve to have their own army, especially when it was taken away from then.
Black Templars deserve a proper supplement. GW made an Index Astartes file for them with bespoke BT rules, so we have a strong indication that just may happen some day.

That being said and no offense intended (yeah, yeah, that is a preface to say something that might offend), Black Templar players do need to get over it.

They have rules for all their models. They have received support nearly equivalent to all the chapters in Codex Space Marines since being rolled into that book. They got a pseudo-supplement in Psychic Awakening and a new Index Astartes document for 9th Edition. Both of those included a whole list of Litanies to make up for their inability to take Psychers. What more do you want?
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 Kanluwen wrote:
Different subfactions are different, news at 11!

Sorry, just not seeing a real issue here. It's a Relic, meaning it's on a single character. The Wolves one being a Warlord Trait is interesting though...but Hero of the Chapter(1CP to give a Warlord Trait to a non-Warlord) does exist. Same argument can be made for "Relic of the Chapter" I guess, but there's more Relics that people usually want than there are Warlord Traits.


Maybe it won't be a big deal, it's just unsettling rather in 4 months we've gone from: "reduced death balling, reduced auras, core limitations" to: "here's a relic that does stuff to everyone in an aura with no limits and its less restrictive than the other equivalent supplement".

It's more GW missing their own point than it being op or anything.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

One of the things they kept harping upon was the keyword system giving them "more levers to pull" when balancing. It might be that they value a reroll to Charges as something that does not need to be restricted to Core only in a Marines force?
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Are Death Company core? If they aren't I'd say that's why.

But the real cheese is that Blood Angel's rhinos will be inspired by the relic and roll into combat with a bunch of bonus attacks!

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in ca
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Are Death Company core? If they aren't I'd say that's why.



Death company are core (intercessors and regular). DC Dreads and Furioso Dreads are not
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
But the real cheese is that Blood Angel's rhinos will be inspired by the relic and roll into combat with a bunch of bonus attacks!


This was why I thought it would be an issue tbh.
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran




Vihti, Finland

 Mulletdude wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Are Death Company core? If they aren't I'd say that's why.



Death company are core (intercessors and regular). DC Dreads and Furioso Dreads are not


This can change with supplement. Kinda weird that BA dreads wouldn't be core.
   
Made in gb
Walking Dead Wraithlord






Yeah a rhino getting potentially 6 attacks on a charge while most CC HQs for most faction cap out at 4-5 attacks...
And thats just a bloody rhino...

All Eldar HQ get no more than 4 attacks ever. Its so hilarious

Lets wait and see guys.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/23 19:34:11


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

When all that is left is Marine players, they will turn on one another rather than the Xenos, Heretic, or Mutant!

Also, Core already covers so many things in a Marine list, does it really matter if charge rerolls don't cover Core, especially if it's taking up the relic??

It's probably also not limited to core so the guy carrying it can also benefit.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Dudeface wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Different subfactions are different, news at 11!

Sorry, just not seeing a real issue here. It's a Relic, meaning it's on a single character. The Wolves one being a Warlord Trait is interesting though...but Hero of the Chapter(1CP to give a Warlord Trait to a non-Warlord) does exist. Same argument can be made for "Relic of the Chapter" I guess, but there's more Relics that people usually want than there are Warlord Traits.


Maybe it won't be a big deal, it's just unsettling rather in 4 months we've gone from: "reduced death balling, reduced auras, core limitations" to: "here's a relic that does stuff to everyone in an aura with no limits and its less restrictive than the other equivalent supplement".

It's more GW missing their own point than it being op or anything.


Well so far core has been relatively speaking buff to marines. Marines very litte impact, necrons actually feels it.

It's marines. Master race. No surprises. Core is to ensure npc factions stay under boots of masters. Just as planned

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

For those interested, prices in USD are apparently:
$80 for Gladiator(was actually shocked by this one!)
$30 for the supplement
$45 for the DC Intercessors(not shocked about this one)
$60 for the Assault Intercessors
$140 for the Combat Patrol
Datacards are $15
Dice are $35
   
Made in gb
Walking Dead Wraithlord






tneva82 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Different subfactions are different, news at 11!

Sorry, just not seeing a real issue here. It's a Relic, meaning it's on a single character. The Wolves one being a Warlord Trait is interesting though...but Hero of the Chapter(1CP to give a Warlord Trait to a non-Warlord) does exist. Same argument can be made for "Relic of the Chapter" I guess, but there's more Relics that people usually want than there are Warlord Traits.


Maybe it won't be a big deal, it's just unsettling rather in 4 months we've gone from: "reduced death balling, reduced auras, core limitations" to: "here's a relic that does stuff to everyone in an aura with no limits and its less restrictive than the other equivalent supplement".

It's more GW missing their own point than it being op or anything.


Well so far core has been relatively speaking buff to marines. Marines very litte impact, necrons actually feels it.

It's marines. Master race. No surprises. Core is to ensure npc factions stay under boots of masters. Just as planned


I think you are way too negative.

I believe you should wait and see.
Theres more supplements and stuff on the way. Surely they wont bring more rules in with no downside .. That would be terrible for balance..
I mean Incubi got 2D weapons man.. thats all balances out probably. Or soemthing.

Wait and see.

Seriously though. I expect the DE codex + supplaments to make marines look amateur.
No new models or anything. Just some over correction knee jerk OP broken stuff they will have to nerf over the next year...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/23 22:32:15


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






 Kanluwen wrote:
For those interested, prices in USD are apparently:
$80 for Gladiator(was actually shocked by this one!)
$30 for the supplement
$45 for the DC Intercessors(not shocked about this one)
$60 for the Assault Intercessors
$140 for the Combat Patrol
Datacards are $15
Dice are $35


Is that cheaper for the dice than usual?
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

 Tiberius501 wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
For those interested, prices in USD are apparently:
$80 for Gladiator(was actually shocked by this one!)
$30 for the supplement
$45 for the DC Intercessors(not shocked about this one)
$60 for the Assault Intercessors
$140 for the Combat Patrol
Datacards are $15
Dice are $35


Is that cheaper for the dice than usual?


Same as the other 9th edition sets, e.g. Necrons & Space Wolves

The Circle of Iniquity
The Fourth Seal
 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






 Marshal Loss wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
For those interested, prices in USD are apparently:
$80 for Gladiator(was actually shocked by this one!)
$30 for the supplement
$45 for the DC Intercessors(not shocked about this one)
$60 for the Assault Intercessors
$140 for the Combat Patrol
Datacards are $15
Dice are $35


Is that cheaper for the dice than usual?


Same as the other 9th edition sets, e.g. Necrons & Space Wolves


Ah man, they’re in a blister and not a reusable box, and are less detailed. That’s a bit of a bummer but I can’t say I wasn’t expecting it.
   
 
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