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Hello, would it be legal to model the stormraven flying really low? And then give it cover behind a landraider?

I was thinking of having terminators in cover giving a landraider cover who then give the stormraven cover. And then you cast the shrouding giving all of the models stealth.

Is this to cheesy?

You cannot model for advantage and must mount the model on the base it was supplied with. So, no.

What exact section of the book says you can't model a Stormraven flying low, as long as it's on the base it came with?

It's the rule that states you must use the base the model came with. You have the flying stem base, thus you MUST use it.

Not going to lie thats kinda a dumb rule. Though I understand it and that it is needed to ensure people don't abuse it.

Am I the only person here who could think of maybe 15 ways in 5 seconds of getting a Stormraven to not be exactly at the top of the flying base peg, yet still be on the base it came with?

Do I even have to glue the peg into the base?

Are you guys even trying?

MikeMcSomething wrote:Am I the only person here who could think of maybe 15 ways in 5 seconds of getting a Stormraven to not be exactly at the top of the flying base peg, yet still be on the base it came with?

Do I even have to glue the peg into the base?

Are you guys even trying?

Cut a hole at an angle and glue the peg going into said hole so it is mostly sideways, then the storm raven is maybe an inch above the flying base

Moving to YMDC.

Any modification of the base is no longer "the base it comes with".

Any modification of the model to change its LOS profile is Modeling For Advantage.

JGrand Wrote:

You cannot model for advantage....

On what page of the rules are you taking this part of your statement from? Is this from a FAQ?

I'm missing something here and I really need to know. Thanks.

Fine, you lower your stormravens, I'll lower my vendettas/valks, and model my basilisks without the gunshield and as low in the hull as possible.

Adam LongWalker wrote:JGrand Wrote:

You cannot model for advantage....

On what page of the rules are you taking this part of your statement from? Is this from a FAQ?

I'm missing something here and I really need to know. Thanks.

Rules are permissive. Show me the page that allows it, or any conversions.

The rules allow citadel models. Conversions make them custom models and require opponents permission. If they are modeled for advantage, don't expect a lot of permission.

MikeMcSomething wrote:Am I the only person here who could think of maybe 15 ways in 5 seconds of getting a Stormraven to not be exactly at the top of the flying base peg, yet still be on the base it came with?

Do I even have to glue the peg into the base?

Are you guys even trying?

Sure its possible, but its also possible that a judge (TO has final say after all) at an event could rule against it, and you have to "remove" offending model which counts as a lost model (yes it does happen) they bar you from playing entirely, or other nasty possibilities.

In friendly play I don't see a problem with it if your opponent is ok with it, as normal. If he isn't, then he is entitled to choose to not play against the crafty modeler. He is also entitled to choose to not play that player ever again, and warn his friends about such player. Basically, don't be "that guy".

Its supposed to be hard to find cover for flyers.....

Sure its possible, but its also possible that a judge (TO has final say after all) at an event could rule against it, and you have to "remove" offending model which counts as a lost model (yes it does happen) they bar you from playing entirely, or other nasty possibilities.

In friendly play I don't see a problem with it if your opponent is ok with it, as normal. If he isn't, then he is entitled to choose to not play against the crafty modeler. He is also entitled to choose to not play that player ever again, and warn his friends about such player. Basically, don't be "that guy".

+1...it's just a game. Don't be that guy and try to sleaze everything.

I do believe that Manahinnin is correct that you cannot change the base that a model comes with.

Also... modelling for advantage is weak sauce. This is my opinion, but I have always viewed this as cheating. You are using this to your advantage (gaining coversave) by doing something that lies outside of the scope of the rules, I.E. modelling for advantage.

One local gamer has cut all his Mawloc and Trigon bodies in half so he can hide them behind anything. Weak. You could model a battlewagon two feet wide and hide your entire army behind it the way that another weak gamer i know does. No matter how you cut it this goes beyond a conversion since you yourself stated that it was intended to give you a cover save. Weak sauce in my book.

This is why when using a flyer/or hover vehicle, using a piece of paper with height clearly printed as to what height the vehicle is at. I have no problem with my vehicle (Thunderhawk) landing and using the cover, I may even hide behind other vehicles. But yes I agree that a StormRaven is larger than a Land Raider and the question is up to a TO as rules go.

nkelsch Wrote:

Rules are permissive. Show me the page that allows it, or any conversions.

The rules allow citadel models. Conversions make them custom models and require opponents permission. If they are modeled for advantage, don't expect a lot of permission.

Yes that is on page three on the rule book, section under bases.

Conversions are one of the points of this hobby, and unfortunately there those who will "ahem" use the rules to their advantage. I model for the fun of it. To win at all costs is what drove me out of playing in tourneys.

Now as for the base for the Storm Raven. Even though I do not like the model, that is a really crappy stem for the base. I would have to convert it to something better if I owned one.

ATTACKING THE PERSON IS ALWAYS A BAD STRATEGY IN AN ARGUMENT, AND IT IS A VIOLATION OF DAKKA RULES. PLEASE BE CAREFUL NOT TO INSULT OTHER PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM.

Settle down the thunder child.

I understand if the rules rule aginst it but it makes sence that it will have to land to unload everything. It is quite aparent that it can hoover. It would be cool having it hoovering around, but I gues it is back to the drawing board on this one.

Niiai wrote:Settle down the thunder child.

I understand if the rules rule aginst it but it makes sence that it will have to land to unload everything. It is quite aparent that it can hoover. It would be cool having it hoovering around, but I gues it is back to the drawing board on this one.

Sorry for that outburst guys, just had to vent. My take is that the only time the base or the height of the skimmer/flyer is modified is when it becomes immobilised. You dont see people flying thier valkries around and landing them behind stuff, they sit there and hoover on thier bases like a good skimmer

Adam LongWalker wrote:nkelsch Wrote:

Rules are permissive. Show me the page that allows it, or any conversions.

The rules allow citadel models. Conversions make them custom models and require opponents permission. If they are modeled for advantage, don't expect a lot of permission.

Yes that is on page three on the rule book, section under bases.

Conversions are one of the points of this hobby, and unfortunately there those who will "ahem" use the rules to their advantage. I model for the fun of it. To win at all costs is what drove me out of playing in tourneys.

Now as for the base for the Storm Raven. Even though I do not like the model, that is a really crappy stem for the base. I would have to convert it to something better if I owned one.

Page 3 doesn't allow you to modify the model or base. The stem is part of the base. Rules are permissive. If it doesn't say you can do it then it falls under 'opponents permission'. If you are doing something that is unfair... Expect to be called on it as no conversions are game legal unless the opponent consents or the TO approves.

Like pornography... Modeling for advantage is hard to define, but I know it when I see it.

Mannahnin wrote:
Any modification of the base is no longer "the base it comes with".

Where is THAT in the rulebook?

Mannahnin wrote:
Any modification of the model to change its LOS profile is Modeling For Advantage.

No it isn't!

Actually you should glue all the parts from the sprue on top of the base, without leaving any room between them(or even make it look like a stormraven, that would make it way to easy to shoot!) to form a realy flat "storm raven", then glue the stem to the side of it. That way you're using the base provided, and with some modeling skill you can hide it out of siight behind regular barricades!

You're complaining that a reasonable effective model that happens to fly is too easy to shoot down? I only really see three options: find a new model, find a new game, or suck it up and deal with it. Really, you can't expect to abuse the cover rules and not have everyone come down like a ton of bricks?

MikeMcSomething wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:
Any modification of the base is no longer "the base it comes with".

Where is THAT in the rulebook?

Easy. The English language.

Have you altered the base it came with? Excellent, that is no LONGER the base it was supplied with, but a custom one. Ergo you need opponents permission

MikeMcSomething wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:
Any modification of the model to change its LOS profile is Modeling For Advantage.

No it isn't!

Erm, are you doing this to gain an in=game ADVANTAGE through the use of MODELLING? I thin kyou will find that fits the definition of "modelling for advantage"

If you do it and have that apparent attitude in a tournament, expect to, at least, have the model removed from all games you have left to play and your previous games where it was used get counted as massacres against you. Or you just get barred from the tournament.

Modelling for advantage is weak. Dont do it.

Shivan Reaper wrote:Fine, you lower your stormravens, I'll lower my vendettas/valks, and model my basilisks without the gunshield and as low in the hull as possible.

By my understanding modelling the Basilisk without the gunshield wouldn't affect anything. The gunshield isn't part of the hull or turret so you don't draw LOS to it.

It is part of the hull, so you draw LOS to it. The exceptions are for "decorative" items, and a gun shield isnt....

Basically any customization to the stock model then falls under 'opponents permission!' which means people do not have to accept your abusive model and TOs can and will disqualify your model and you will be left to pound sand.

If you game anywhere who uses INAT, I believe they added it to their FAQ so it is not allowed. Most events use some form of INAT and almost all disallow modeling for advantage.

This gets your point across well enough, we didn't need the comments after this, so they have been removed.

Toy soldiers people ! Take a breath.

nosferatu wrote:
Easy. The English language.

So were you gonna come up with a rulebook page or use this garbage?

The rule on pg. 3 says you need your opponents permission if you alter the size of the base. The stem is part of the base, so if you alter its size, you alter the size of the base. Happy?