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As a tyranid player, I have a theory, and my theory is that tyranids can compete against the new Grey Knights (if built properly). So I setup a game with my friend. Originally I wanted him to play the new Grey Knights while I use my Tyranids. However, he wanted to try out my nids instead. Ok, fine with me. This way, I could test out my footslogging Grey Knights. I've always wanted to try out psycannon + stormbolter-spam, and this provided me with the perfect opportunity.....foot army against foot army. I also wanted to give the Dread Knight a go as well as try out the new Interceptors. They seem like very good units (at least the Interceptors do). So with this battle, I get to:

- Try out a foot Grey Knight army.

- See how effective are psycannons + S5 stormbolters.

- Try out new units like the Dread Knight and Grey Knight Interceptor squads.

- See how much of a challenge are the new Grey Knights to tyranids.

- Evaluate the different tyranid units and how well they work against the new Grey Knights.



So without further ado, my list:

Grey Knights 2K


I'm proxying my Blood Angel assault marines as my Grey Knight Interceptors. The meltaguns are psycannons. Except for the special weapons as noted on the army list, all grey knights have Nemesis force swords.


Grey Knight Grandmaster - Blind Grenades, Rad Grenades, Incinerator, Master-crafted Nemesis Force Sword

Venerable Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Venerable Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo (S5 stormbolters), MC-Staff
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo (S5 stormbolters), MC-Staff

10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo (S5 stormbolters), MC-Daemonhammer
10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo (S5 stormbolters), MC-Daemonhammer

Dread Knight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter



Tyranids 2K


As he is short 1 carnifex, he's proxying 1 dakkafex as a regular scything talon carnifex.


Swarmlord
2x Tyrant Guards - Lash Whips

3x Hive Guards
3x Hive Guards

Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Toxin Sacs
10x Termagants
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Toxin Sacs
10x Termagants

2x Carnifexes - Frag Spines
2x Carnifexes - Frag Spines
3x Biovores


Not exactly the type of list I was thinking of, but it's got the Swarmlord, hive guards, dual tervigons and 3 biovores that I would've used in my list. He just wanted to experiment with the 2 mini-fexstars build.


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PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Grey Knights:
S5 stormbolters against T6 tyranid units. Against any MEQ army, S5 stormbolters would rock, but against T6 nids, hmmm...... It may come down to a battle of attrition due to shooting - how fast can I wear down his nids before the inevitable assault? I am dangerous in assault, but so are his fexstar and Swarmlord. It'll be tough trying to get my psychic powers off his Shadows in the Warp. My LD 9 knights only have about a 44% chance of success, with a 15% chance of suffering Perils.

One of my limitations is that it is either hammerhand for S5 or force weapons, but not both (except for the 1 squad with my Grandmaster in it). So either I am wounding his TMC's (tyranid monstrous creatures) on 5's with no force weapons or I can try to force weapon them to death at S4 only. If my knights get the charge off, I have a decent chance of owning his non-Shadows monstrous creatures. However, if he gets the charge off, I'm looking at a lot of dead knights (unless I give them counter-attack in non-objectives-based missions). The Swarmlord, no matter how I cut it, will be a tough fight. My knights are hitting him on 5's due to his WS9 and possibly at I1 due to lash whips. On top of that, he can give his unit prefered enemy, forces me to re-roll any successful invuln saves, has a 4++ invuln himself and has a very good chance to negate my psychic powers. Best to avoid him if possible, but if I can't, then I'm going to show him how nasty my Grandmaster's squad can be.

In objectives-based missions, I'm going to use my Grandmaster's Grand Strategy to make my interceptors scoring (and maybe my dreadknight as well). In annihilation missions, I'm going to give my strike squads (and perhaps interceptors) counter-attack.

I think I will have the advantage in Annihilation games, as I should be able to kill off any of his units besides his HQ. In Seize Ground, he's going to have 6-9 scoring units whereas I may have 6-9 as well - make up to 3 units scoring with Grand Strategy and then combat-squad all my strike squad and interceptors. However, I have the mobility advantage here as well with jump infantry and shunting (the ability of my jump infantry to move 30" once per game). So that's potentially 5 units that can move 30" (dreadknight + 4 interceptor combat squads) in objectives-based missions. Finally, Capture and Control favors me as well with my better mobility.

Deployment-wise, it doesn't really matter to me. I have a mid-range shooting army that needs to stay about 18"-24" away from my opponent so I'll move to within that range. I also don't really care who goes first, as tyranids do not have any guns to make me concerned (well, except for the biovores, but they're going to be my #1 target priority.)

I'm going to maximize my shooting against him until his numbers are greatly reduced, and then I'll finish him off in assault. Biovores are my #1 target priority. After that, I am going after his tervigons and gants. Fexstars and Swarmlord will be lower on my priority list, that is, until they get close.


Tyranids:
I think this will be a tough battle for tyranids. My interceptors have the mobility to play keep-away-and-shoot with them. My dreadknight will kill any of his units in assault with the exception of the Swarmlord (who will just own my dreadknight so bad it isn't even funny) and, ironically, has termagants (as long as they are within synapse range). My Nemesis force weapons spell death to any outside of Shadows range (assuming I'm able to wound). The million-dollar question here is: how effective are S5 stormbolters against T6 units?

What he does have going for him, besides his high toughness, is Shadows in the Warp. That's his best (and only) defense against my psychic powers. It's all very simple - if it's able to stop my powers from going off in assault, I'm in trouble. If not, he is. Good thing for me is that SitW is relatively short ranged at 12". However, he's got 3 sources for it. If he can keep his tervigons close to his fexstars to protect them, again, I'm in trouble. If he doesn't, once again, he is.

One thing he does need to beware of is my Grandmaster's unit, and I explained clearly to him what they can do. If I charge his Swarmlord, then because of psyk-out grenades, Swarmie's unit will be striking at Initiative 1. If he charges my HQ unit, he won't get his bonus attacks for charging due to my blind grenades. Also, in the first turn of any assault (whether he charges me or I him), his unit is fighting at -1 Toughness due to my rad grenades. Thus, Swarmie's unit will be at T5 only on the first turn of assault. Finally, with my Grandmaster in the unit, I would be able to use both hammerhand and my force weapon (thus if successful, I would be wounding him on 4's with a chance to force weapon him to death), assuming I am able to get them off through his SitW.

My knights have a lot of advantages over the nids, but I think this battle is going to boil down to 2 things - how well he can survive my fire and how well he can shut down my psychic powers. If he does both well, he has a chance to beat me. If not, I'm going to roll right through him.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Annihilation

Deployment: Pitched Battle

Initiative: Grey Knights


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Deployment:


Map of the battlefield.


Grey Knights deployment. Interceptors stay on the flanks.


Psyfleman dreads hide behind cover, making sure to touch it. I have no reserves.



Tyranid deployment. The 2 termagant unit stays in reserves.

Tyranids try to seize the initiative but fail.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Grey Knights 1


My knights advance. Interceptors and dreadknight advance 12". Vendreads scoot to to right (from my perspective) to try to insta-kill his biovores.


Stormbolters from my left interceptors only put 1W on his left hive guards. Concentrated fire from my 2 strike squads and 1 dread scores the first Kill Point in the game by taking out his left tervigon. Dreadknight fires his heavy incinerator, hitting 2 carnifexes and 2 hive guards and killing 1 hive guard from the right unit.

GK: 1, Tyranids: 0



Due to good positioning, my right dread is just out of range to shoot his biovores. Thus, my right interceptors have to shoot at them, killing 2 biovores and putting 1W on the last one. Fortunately for my opponent, they pass morale on LD 6 (they were outside synapse).


Tyranids 1

Tyranid movement. Like a veteran player, his tervigon spawns 14 termagants without rolling doubles (in spite of this being a KP game). Tervigon FNP's himself and Swarmy gives preferred enemy to the newly spawned termagants. I miscalculated his assault range. Now it looks like his termagants are going to tie up my dreadknight.


Biovore hides inside the ruins. (He passes his Instinctive Behaviour test.) His non-shooty units run. Tyranid shooting doesn't do much, maybe killing 1-2 knights only with tervigon cluster spines and hive guards (biovore misses).


Termagants furiously charge my dreadknight. He tries to multi-charge but fails to also reach my interceptors.


With re-rolls to hit and wounding on 4's due to poisoned attacks, termagants manage to get 1W past my 2+ armor save. In turn, my dreadknight only kills 2 and another 1 dies to No Retreat.


Grey Knights 2


Both interceptors advance another 12" and flank the tyranids.


Front GK unit (with counter-attack) goes to help out my dreadknight. My Grandmaster joins the unit.


My vendread doesn't have LOS to his biovore, so my right interceptors have to finish the job. They blow away his lone biovore. I then forget to fire with my dreads.

GK: 2, Tyranids: 0


Left interceptors only manage to shoot down 1 of his left hive guards.


In assault, my grey knights charges into the dreadknight-termagant melee. Before....


.....and afterwards. I am not able to consolidate that far.

GK: 3, Tyranids: 0


Tyranids 2

Tervigon has another amazing round of spawning with another 14 termagants coming out and no doubles. Tervigon FNP's himself again and Swarmy gives new termagants preferred enemy again.


Carnifexes go after my interceptors. Gulp....they may be in range to assault. It's going to be close....


More tyranid movement. Both termagant squads come in from reserves and hide behind the center ruins.


The non-shooters run.


Termagants, hive guards and the tervigon fire at my HQ unit, killing 3 knights and putting 1W on my Grandmaster.


Termagants furiously multi-charge. I am just barely within Shadows range after piling in and fail to cast hammerhand. He rolls well and I roll badly. I lose 2 knights and my dreadknight takes another 1W. He loses 5 gants and another 2 to No Retreat. I make another mistake here. I totally forget about my Grandmaster's grenades. They would have taken away the termagants' charge bonus (defensive blind grenades) as well as reduce their Toughness to 2 (rad grenades). Oh well, live and learn....


Fexstar makes their assault! Luckily for me, my guys are out of Shadows range. Unluckily for me, we make a mistake here, allowing his carnifexes to strike at I4 without furious charge.


Fighting at only S4, I get lucky. His carnifexes whiff, killing only 6 guys. My regular knights, with only 10 attacks total, roll 3 6's on the wound rolls. I then pass my psychic test and insta-gib both carnifexes! My master-crafted daemonhammer justicar didn't even get to strike!

GK: 4, Tyranids: 0


Grey Knights 3

Right interceptors go after termagants.


Left interceptors go after hive guards.


Grey knights back away from carnifexes.


Stormbolters from left interceptors wipe out the 2-man hive guard unit. My right interceptors shoot down a few gants.

GK: 5, Tyranids: 0


My strike squad opts to shoot at Swarmy's unit instead of the carnifexes. The dreads help out. I only manage to kill 1 tyrant guard.


In assault my knights wipe out the termagants and consolidate.

GK: 6, Tyranids: 0


Tyranids 3

Undeterred, his tervigon continues to spawn some gants (still no doubles). I believe he FNP's and casts preferred enemy on the gants, but I could be mistaken.


2 termagant units go after my right interceptors. They would shoot down 3 and then kill that last one in assault for the tyranid's first Kill Point.

GK: 6, Tyranids: 1


He makes a mistake here, firing his cluster spines and hive guards into my HQ unit and killing 2. I allocate them on the guys closest to the Swarmlord, removing them and taking the unit out of Swarmy's threat range.


So Swarmy doesn't make his charge, but the tervigon does.


Tervigon whiffs and my dreadknight puts 3W on him. I fail my force weapon attempt due to Shadows, but No Retreat takes off another 2W from the tervigon, bringing it down to just 1W left.


Grey Knights 4

My opponent is getting frustrated because he just can't get his deathstar unit into combat with me (or any of his other guys), so I decide to give him a chance to get into combat. I move my Grandmaster's unit towards his Swarmlord.


Strike squads surround his carnifexes instead of backing away. Stormbolters and psycannon fire put 2W on the carnifexes.


Interceptors go after his last unit of 2 hive guards. Their shooting only puts 1W on the hive guards.


Incinerator and stormbolter fire from my HQ puts 1W on Swarmy. My dreads kill off the wounded hive guard.


For the glory of the Emperor!!!!


Glorious indeed as I force weapon 1 carnifex to death. His carnifex whiffs in return, killing only 1-2 knights.


The showdown. Psyk-out grenades reduce the unit to Initiative 1. I make a mistake here, as it should only reduce the Swarmlord to initiative 1, not his tyrant guard.


I fail both my attempt at hammerhand (from my grandmaster) as well as my attempt to activate my force weapons (strike squad) due to Shadows. I cause 1W to his tyrant guard and 2W on the Swarmlord thanks to my rad grenades lowering their Toughness to 5. In return, Swarmy insta-kills my Grandmaster after forcing him to re-roll his successful 3++ invuln. He also kills my psycannon knight and would have killed another if not for my warding stave. We stay locked in combat.

GK: 6, Tyranids: 2


Finally, my dreadknight finishes off his last tervigon.

GK: 7, Tyranids: 2


Tyranids 4

Termagants head towards my dreadknight. He wants to kill it real bad.


Charge!!! Swarmy gives one of the termagant squads prefered enemy.


Without furious charge or poisoned attacks, the gants fail to do any damage and my dreadknight kills 2. Another 2 gants die to No Retreat.


In the other combat, my grey knights force weapon his other carnifex to death.

GK: 8, Tyranids: 2

Hmmm....I think we forgot to fight it out between Swarmy and my 2-man GK unit this assault phase.


Grey Knights 5

Strike squad go after the termagants locked in assault with my dreadknight. Interceptors go after his other non-engaged termagants.


My interceptors gun down his termagants.

GK: 9, Tyranids: 2


Vendreads fire at his hive guards, who go-to-ground. I kill 1 and put 1W on the other.


My strike squad charges his termagants. I wipe out 1 squad and No Retreat brings him down to only 1 termagant left. I just can't get any psychic powers through his Shadows as my 2-man grey knight unit tries to cast hammerhand and fails. Swarmy kills my justicar but is not able to take down my last knight with the warding staff. What he can't do, however, his bodyguard can as my last knight fails his 2++ invuln save against the tyrant guard.

GK: 10, Tyranids: 3


Tyranids 5

Swarmy goes after my dreadknight. If anything, he's going to get his moral victory.


Raawwwwrrrrrrrrrrr.


The dreadknight, his tyrant guard and the last termagant all die.

GK: 12, Tyranids: 4


We continue onto Turn 6.


Grey Knights 6

Interceptors go to help out. Dreads shoot down the last hive guard.

GK: 13, Tyranids: 4


Grey Knights, hoooooooooooo!

I finally get off 1 psychic power....hammerhand for my strike squad. However, my justicar perils and dies while doing so. Interceptors get shut down trying to use their psychic power.


The combined efforts of 2 squads, all with power weapons, is just too much for a wounded Swarmlord. He kills some of my interceptors but I take him down.


Tyranids are tabled.

GK: 14, Tyranids: 4




Victory to the Grey Knights!!!


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I have a bad feeling about the Tyranids :(

To many power weapons, for all the MC.

I think this is going to be a slaughter, and there aren't even any purifiers.

'Fexes are gonna have a bad day in the assault phase, as anything that slips through on the GK side is gonna rip apart those 'fexez.

Same goez for the Swarmlord, though he has more punch and speed.

Can't wait to see the results anyway.

Sasori wrote:I have a bad feeling about the Tyranids :(

To many power weapons, for all the MC.

I think this is going to be a slaughter, and there aren't even any purifiers.

I've tried purifiers already and know what they can do. They are just an awesome unit....perhaps the best and most well-rounded infantry unit in the GK codex. I wanted to give other units a chance to show what they can do.

WarOne wrote:'Fexes are gonna have a bad day in the assault phase, as anything that slips through on the GK side is gonna rip apart those 'fexez.

Same goez for the Swarmlord, though he has more punch and speed.

Can't wait to see the results anyway.

Not necessarily. If the fexes get the charge, they're striking at I4 and going simultaneously with the knights. 10 attacks with re-rolls and wounding on 2's are bound to kill more knights than 10 grey knight attacks wounding on 6's.

One thing very, very dangerous about the nids, especially to the grey knights, is Shadows in the Warp, which the Swarmlord has. He is forcing me to re-roll my invulns and take my psychic tests on 3D6. For normal grey knights with LD 9, their chances of getting any psychic powers off when the Swarmlord is around is something like 44% only, and that's what I wanted to demonstrate in this battle.

Depending on the amount of terrain that blocks line of sight, I'd have to say the Grey Knights have a pretty good chance of winning this.

Shadow in the Warp however is gonna really hurt the Grey Knights.

I think the Biovores are gonna have a good day

It looks like a solid foot slogging nid list. The big issue is SiTW...I guess it depends on getting it off when you need it. If it works then the big bugs are gonna be in for a world of hurt, if not then much less so.

I do have a feeling that nids are in for a tough matchup regardless, but not to the point where they can't win.

Lukus83 wrote:It looks like a solid foot slogging nid list. The big issue is SiTW...I guess it depends on getting it off when you need it. If it works then the big bugs are gonna be in for a world of hurt, if not then much less so.

I can tell you this much....I was only able to get my psychic powers off just once against SitW, and when I did, my justicar died to Perils! Yeah, it's a big stopper in the power machine that is the GK army.

Lukus83 wrote:I do have a feeling that nids are in for a tough matchup regardless, but not to the point where they can't win.

That's exactly how I feel. Nids can compete IMO, though it will be an uphill battle.

jy2 wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:It looks like a solid foot slogging nid list. The big issue is SiTW...I guess it depends on getting it off when you need it. If it works then the big bugs are gonna be in for a world of hurt, if not then much less so.

I can tell you this much....I was only able to get my psychic powers off just once against SitW, and when I did, my justicar died to Perils! Yeah, it's a big stopper in the power machine that is the GK army.

Haha, just like last game against Eldar.

I look forward to reading the rest of the battle report.

yeah when can we expect the conclusion of for this game? i am digging your battle reports.

jy2 wrote:

WarOne wrote:'Fexes are gonna have a bad day in the assault phase, as anything that slips through on the GK side is gonna rip apart those 'fexez.

Same goez for the Swarmlord, though he has more punch and speed.

Can't wait to see the results anyway.

Not necessarily. If the fexes get the charge, they're striking at I4 and going simultaneously with the knights. 10 attacks with re-rolls and wounding on 2's are bound to kill more knights than 10 grey knight attacks wounding on 6's.

Ah...silly me not to see the Swarmlord fully. He does alot of good things for an army, including that Furious Charge boost.

Seems like all comers lists on both sides. I question the carnifex choices for the Tyranids, but the biovores are necessary in an army of this size with such a low model count to take out that rare horde ork list or random foot IG list.

As a Nid player, the strike squads are no real threat outside of an annoyance of shooting. Power armor guys with force weapons. Get them under SitW, and clobber them with I5+ and/or lashwhips. Genestealers rock their world if they dont have halberds and you catch em in the open. Don't let them charge Tervigons/Carnifexes and you'll be fine pretty much.

Interceptors are more of the same really.

The Dreadknight will be an issue, but the swarmlord can handle it and if the carnifexes charge they could give it a bad day (unlikely to charge though). I don't expect much from the psyfle-men dreads, at least compared to playing against other armies. That 3+ save really blunts their effectiveness.

The REAL threats to nids in the GK army is purifiers, Dreadknights and psychotoke grenades IMO and you've only taken the DK.

Feels like the game will be decided based on how much damage the storm bolters can do, and if you get lucky with the rending on the psycannons.

Edit; LEWL! Tyranids are outnumbered by GKs!

I don't see much point in Frag Spines without Adrenal? Not unless one's banking on Swarmlord adding FC, anyway; I3 with assault grenades is only particularly helpful against Orks.

Pre-game Analysis updated.

Carnage43 wrote:
As a Nid player, the strike squads are no real threat outside of an annoyance of shooting. Power armor guys with force weapons. Get them under SitW, and clobber them with I5+ and/or lashwhips. Genestealers rock their world if they dont have halberds and you catch em in the open. Don't let them charge Tervigons/Carnifexes and you'll be fine pretty much.

Don't under-estimate them. Strike squads are more than an annoyance. They are a genuinely dangerous unit to all but the Swarmlord, though in the right conditions, the carnifexes can take them out.

Carnage43 wrote:
Feels like the game will be decided based on how much damage the storm bolters can do, and if you get lucky with the rending on the psycannons.

Edit; LEWL! Tyranids are outnumbered by GKs!

Exactly how I feel. My main strategy will be to shoot and then shoot some more, until I think that I can handle the unit in assault.

lindsay40k wrote:I don't see much point in Frag Spines without Adrenal? Not unless one's banking on Swarmlord adding FC, anyway; I3 with assault grenades is only particularly helpful against Orks.

Actually, we did make a mistake in the game with this, and I'm afraid it was my fault. I gave my opponent some suggestions on his list and was thinking that furious charge and frag spines would let his carnifexes charge me at I4. However, when I told him that, I forgot to tell him to get adrenal glands also to give them furious charge. Thus, in essence, I told him to get frag spines for his carnies so that he would be charging me at I4.

My bad.

Damn, I was hoping to find out the results! You should post them soon, the suspense is killing me.

Sorry, got busy with work. Batrep will be coming out tonight though, after I get back from work.

Excellent, I look forward to finding out how good the GK are in a play test! I'm cautiously trying to assess their effectiveness and how I'll deal with them, especially since a few people are bandwagoning at my FLGS.

Just thought I would point out if you assault the Swarmlord it is only him that would go at I1. Only the actual psyker models are affected.

Really looking forward to the report...

Hmmm....you are right. My mistake. It didn't make much of a difference in our game though.



Automatically Appended Next Post:


Battle report updated!

He should have kept the biovores behind his Swarmlord so they had synapse and a better firing position IMO.
Don't get the decision on reserving the gaunts either, should have used them to screen and held off on spawning with the tervigons, or spawned to supplement what you already had. That first charge might have gone differently with another 10 gaunts in there.

Concentrated fire from my 2 strike squads and 1 dread scores the first Kill Point in the game by taking out his left tervigon.

Surprised me...then I ran the numbers, and the expected amount of wounds inflicted was like 5.3ish, so you rolled around average, when he didn't have FnP, with 700+ points worth of stuff...still more then I would have expected from "tactical" marines and a dreadnought.

Expected;
32 S5 Bolters = 2.37
8 psycannon shots = 1.77
4 S8, BS5 TL AP4 shots = 1.08

I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've seen a Tervigon killed first turn. That's a fair bit of ranged firepower.

I make another mistake here. I totally forget about my Grandmaster's grenades. They would have taken away the termagants' charge bonus (defensive blind grenades) as well as reduce their Toughness to 2 (rad grenades). Oh well, live and learn....

Grenades rape tyranids....don't forget next time . Also, get psychotoke grenades for double rape.

Unluckily for me, we make a mistake here, allowing his carnifexes to strike at I4 without furious charge.

In all fairness, they probably would have taken adrenal glands like you said earlier. I assume the Nids player was unfamiliar with the codex. Also, this doesn't really come up very often.

Fighting at only S4, I get lucky. His carnifexes whiff, killing only 6 guys. My regular knights, with only 10 attacks total, roll 3 6's on the wound rolls. I then pass my psychic test and insta-gib both carnifexes! My master-crafted daemonhammer justicar didn't even get to strike!

6 is hardly a whiff for the fexes, 10 attacks, 4+ to hit with rerolls = 7.5 hits. 2+ to wound gives you an average kill number of ~6.25.
Of course the return attacks was fully slowed and exactly why this codex pisses me right the hell off. They would have stood their ground point for point if they only had power weapons instead of force weapons. Army wide force weapons is just a slap in tyranid player's faces.

Looking forward to the conclusion, but I think the writing is on the wall after that Fex star fight.

Battle report completed!

you should have only gibbed one carnifex, the wounds aren't instant death wounds, just wounded models suffer instant death, as far as I understand the wording.

so it should have been
cause anywhere from 1-4 wounds -> 1 fex dies (since all wounds would normally be stacked on one, then he gets instant deathed by the force weapon)
cause 5+ wounds -> both fexes die

@Carnage43:

Yeah, this was actually my opponent's first time playing with nids. He's played against nids before, but basically he was helping me with my evaluation by playing my nids. It was a slightly different build from what I would have taken against the new knights, but that was because he wanted to use multiple carnifexes.

Overall, he didn't do too badly with his first go at my army, though he did make a few mistakes which I will mention in my Post-game Analysis.

Stormbolters did alright. It didn't do too much damage against his Swarmlord and hive guards, but it just raped his tervigon first turn, before it even had a chance to FNP itself. I think that helped greatly.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grundz wrote:you should have only gibbed one carnifex, the wounds aren't instant death wounds, just wounded models suffer instant death, as far as I understand the wording.

so it should have been
cause anywhere from 1-4 wounds -> 1 fex dies (since all wounds would normally be stacked on one, then he gets instant deathed by the force weapon)
cause 5+ wounds -> both fexes die

After re-examining the rules for force weapons, I believe you are right. But there's still a very high possibility I would've killed both fexes as my justicar hadn't struck yet with his master-crafted thunderhammer. All he needed to do was hit and wound just once.

Lol, a Slaughter as predicted.

Not much the Tyranid Player could have done, it was just a Bad list Matchup, IMO.

If that was his first game, he did a pretty good job. Better than I did on my first game, that's for sure.

Practice makes perfect..and the GK dex is new....

Will take some time to adjust...

And maybe you can swap sides and play another game??? As you are the more experienced Nid player?

Wow, it sucks to be a tyranid player now with grey knights. One wound, one psychic test, one dead 4 to 6 wound creature your paying 200+ points for.

Ugh.

I didn't know it was so easy for run of the mill grey knights to insta-gib stuff. I thought the force attack happens on a failed leadership check or something. It just seems really stacked against Tyranids.

They should change the name to codex:Tyranidhunters.

Sasori wrote:Lol, a Slaughter as predicted.

Not much the Tyranid Player could have done, it was just a Bad list Matchup, IMO.

If that was his first game, he did a pretty good job. Better than I did on my first game, that's for sure.

Yeah, I agree. It was also a bad mission for him. Annihilation is just rough on a tervigon-tyranid list, especially against more mobile armies. That is one of the reasons why I don't think assault-based nids are a balanced army. They just have a really, really hard time dealing with these type of armies in anything short of Seize Ground.

But he did well with what he got.

freddieyu1 wrote:Practice makes perfect..and the GK dex is new....

Will take some time to adjust...

And maybe you can swap sides and play another game??? As you are the more experienced Nid player?

As a matter of fact, I wanted to. I wanted to try out my shooty, all-comer's Tyranids list (the one that got me 2nd place in a tournament) against them. But my opponent wanted to try out my nids instead of the grey knights.

Next time, after the grey knights actually come out, I will show people how nids will beat up on them.

carmachu wrote:Wow, it sucks to be a tyranid player now with grey knights. One wound, one psychic test, one dead 4 to 6 wound creature your paying 200+ points for.

Ugh.

To be honest, I rolled really well on the wound rolls. Kinda makes up for my horrible psychic test rolls against Shadows, where I fail all but 1 test (and that killed my grey knight sergeant).


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Coming up next battle....Grey Knights vs......



Daemons (gasp!)

carmachu wrote:Wow, it sucks to be a tyranid player now with grey knights. One wound, one psychic test, one dead 4 to 6 wound creature your paying 200+ points for.

Ugh.

Good thing I run a horde list... y'know, the build that the codex is basically built for.

jy2 wrote:

Grundz wrote:you should have only gibbed one carnifex, the wounds aren't instant death wounds, just wounded models suffer instant death, as far as I understand the wording.

so it should have been
cause anywhere from 1-4 wounds -> 1 fex dies (since all wounds would normally be stacked on one, then he gets instant deathed by the force weapon)
cause 5+ wounds -> both fexes die

After re-examining the rules for force weapons, I believe you are right. But there's still a very high possibility I would've killed both fexes as my thunderhammer justicar hadn't struck yet. All he needed to do was hit and wound just once.

I think that you were right that it would kill both carnifexes.

3 wounds would be allocated between the carnifexes, one of them taking 1 wound, the other taking 2. Since any of those would would deal instant death, both carnifexes would be removed. It is only when you get to the "removing casualties" step that all of the unsaved wounds are moved onto a single model in multi-wound units. Any instant death wounds MUST remove a model with a full wound count first. (in non-complex multi-wound units).

I am not sure, but is seems that the way NFW rules are written in the codex, that they do cause instant death wounds, not wounded models instantly die....I am not sure anymore.

It seems there is yet another question for YMDC and Grey knights.