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 Dynas wrote:
What about something like this.

Spoiler:

Sautekh +5 CP [1255]

HQ: Cryptek, SoL, Chrono [95] Warlord: Hyperlogical Strategist, Artefact,Veil of Darkness
HQ: Anarykr [167]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 10x Tesla Immortals [170]
Troops: 10x Tesla Immortals [170]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]

Nephrekh +1 CP [745]
HQ: Lord, Hypherphase Sword [76]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 6x Wraiths [330]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]

Total: 2000
CP: 9 ; 12 drops, (not counting any stratagems, but likely hold Destroyers in DS)

Idea looks ok, but there is room for improvement IMO:
1. Lord in nephrekh dont give noone anything. Destroyers is only infantry, they already reroll everything. Put him in sautekh detach in exchange of Anrakyr. Or make him Sautekh in Nephrekh detachment. If i understand it correctly, you would lose dynasty code which is not a big deal, but you still have access to stratagem to deep strike destroyers/
2. Put scarabs into nephrekh detachment. Its 3-6 Fast attack slots.
3. IMO Anrakyr is not worth it here. Find points for Imotekh or save points by using ordinary overlord.

I have been toying with close to that concept, and while thinking about your list i found new iteration of mine, which contains all units from codexi want:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Raxxamous wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap

Not sure what you obsession with being a contrarian about destroyers is, look at the math and it shows with the stratagem (the thing that makes them so good) a squad of 6 should kill an onager on average. You rolled lower? Your opponent made more saves? That has no bearings on tactics and I can assure you nobody wants to hear about it every time you have a bad roll. It has no place in this thread.

Obsession? I keep taking them and they keep failing. I'm just reporting on my games. Wraiths die(since they're one of the most durable things we have, I guess that's fine), destroyers fail to do anything useful. Immortals obliterate enemy troops(I stay 24'' away and fire 2 6s shots that autohit (basically) and the best thing my opponent can have is 1 S3/S4 shot for their troops at that range) and I outscore them xD It's a weird playstyle. Also Deceiver is just MVP every game AND I've yet to go first in all my necron games so far (6). Last game deceiver killed about 600 pts worth of stuff lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
5 destros attacking onager with stratagem:
15 shots - > 13.333 hits -> 7.407 wounds -> 4.5 failed saves = 9 damage. So my 8 damage wasn't even that bellow average taking into account thay you can re-roll a save with CP.

What units do you typically move with Deceivers Grand Strategy? And how do you typically use it when you know you are going second?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
AND I've yet to go first in all my necron games so far

Actually, I wonder what the stats on that are. (Player 1 win ratio)
Like, almost every game I've seen or experienced, whoever goes first almost always is the person who ends up winning. Plus, I don't think I've EVER seen anyone who has seized initiative lose. It is the absolute most detrimental thing that can happen in a game, as far as I'm concerned.
This is the main reason I want to run Nephrekh, so I can keep my most important units off the table to prevent them from dying before I have a chance to even have them contribute to the battle.

I just deploy most of my stuff out of LoS. Get better terrain if you can't. The only things my opp can see are warriors(for anti deepstrike), wraiths(too tall usually) and characters(they don't care). I've always won going 2nd.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I just deploy most of my stuff out of LoS. Get better terrain if you can't. The only things my opp can see are warriors(for anti deepstrike), wraiths(too tall usually) and characters(they don't care). I've always won going 2nd.

Is it common to have enough LOS terrain for that?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap

I don't think Onagers are really the ideal target for destroyers. They are good, but not equally good against everything. Onagers have high enough toughness not to be in their sweet spot, and an invulnerable save that cuts down on the destroyers effective AP (also did the AdMech have repair guys fixing it up from behind? Were they Stygies and keeping you beyond 12"?)

Mark.

 nintura wrote:
we have a somewhat super casual group at my store. Looking to play a monolith. I know it's very subpar, but all 3 times I've played necrons, Ive never gotten to field one and I need to get it out of my system. Suggestions?

There's the Deceiver shenanigans, but you don't have that option, and it's pretty unreliable anyway.

Deep Striking in with Nephrek Destroyers isn't a bad option. The Destroyers can hide in the shadow of the Monolith- put them only in LoS of their Target, and hidden from most of the enemy by the lith. Monoliths and Destroyers also attract the same kind of shooting as each other, lascannons, so the lith might draw fire from them.

Assault slingshot: The Dimensional Corridor stratagem lets an infantry unit deploy within 3" of the lith, then move and assault. So if you have a unit of Lychguard or Flayed Ones on the board, then anything withing ~16" of the lith (a pretty huge area) can be charged.

Refuse flank trick: Deploy 2 infantry units and a HQ with the VoD on one flank, then the Monolith on the opposite flank. You then have the option to shift both infantry units and the HQ over to the monolith. 40 Warriors and a Cryptek with the Veil, Ignore morale WL trait, and Chronometron would work. It might catch an opponent out, but even if they see it coming you don't have to do it so they can't be sure whats going to happen. You can do the same thing after deep striking the lith, but not till turn 3.

That's some uses for the lith, not sure how good any of it will be!

Cheeslord wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap

I don't think Onagers are really the ideal target for destroyers. They are good, but not equally good against everything. Onagers have high enough toughness not to be in their sweet spot, and an invulnerable save that cuts down on the destroyers effective AP (also did the AdMech have repair guys fixing it up from behind? Were they Stygies and keeping you beyond 12"?)

Mark.

Well what else do destroyers shoot? Skitarii? Nope, they're dead to Tesla. Kastelans? Nope, nothing trades against Kastelans. I'd kill 1-2 and get my unit wiped. So Onagers are the only thing that's left.
The problem is that I'm wasting SOOO much CP on destroyers: 1cp to deepstrike and 1 every turn for the stratagem


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torblind wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I just deploy most of my stuff out of LoS. Get better terrain if you can't. The only things my opp can see are warriors(for anti deepstrike), wraiths(too tall usually) and characters(they don't care). I've always won going 2nd.

Is it common to have enough LOS terrain for that?

Ruins 1st floor = LoS blocking hides every troops like unit. And random giant blocks of Impassable terrain hides wraiths.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
The problem is that I'm wasting SOOO much CP on destroyers: 1cp to deepstrike and 1 every turn for the stratagem

Well, if they're not working for you, maybe you should spend those points on something else instead.
If you can't think of anything better to spend the points on, maybe Necrons aren't for you...

Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.

You don't have to use the stratagem for destroyers though. I only use it when I really, really need a tough unit to die. Against most heavy infantry (their intended target) they are still pretty effective without the buff, especially if you have a Destroyer Lord with them.


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 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.

Ah, that might be your problem. 5+ to wound is still a problem for destroyers, even with the rerolls. You might want to add a heavy in there. Or spend a bit more and get a DDA.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.

Dont like to run lists with out at least 2 DDA, 3 if possible

It might be a large investment, but DDAs pretty much define competitive necrons these days. Two minimum, three if possible. We have no other anti tank/monster unit that is as durable and reliable.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:


Well what else do destroyers shoot? Skitarii? Nope, they're dead to Tesla. Kastelans? Nope, nothing trades against Kastelans. I'd kill 1-2 and get my unit wiped. So Onagers are the only thing that's left.
The problem is that I'm wasting SOOO much CP on destroyers: 1cp to deepstrike and 1 every turn for the stratagem

Well, they are very good against light vehicles and elite infantry (so Sicarians and Dunestriders/dragoons for AdMech). If your opponent didn't bring any then yes, you may be deprived of optimal targets...

Aren't Kastellans only T6? They should be getting wounded on 4s then.
Also, Admech Destroyers might be fair game too.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.

Not really. Having 1 will help draw attention away from Destroyers. Do you run Wraiths? They too draw fire away from Destroyers. Expecting ponies to do their one trick isn't going to work. It's always an army effort to make the synergy work as a whole.

Could it be that the heat that the destroyers got, kept the rest of your army alive to win the game? You keep winning don't you?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Aren't Kastellans only T6? They should be getting wounded on 4s then.
Also, Admech Destroyers might be fair game too.

Good one! I forgot about Kataphrons but Necron Destroyers should be ideally suited to wiping them from the face of the earth (or whatever planet they happen to be on). They should not have pinched the name...

Yeah, I don't know why they decided to give them the same name. GW is normally pretty good at not recycling names across codices.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Aren't Kastellans only T6? They should be getting wounded on 4s then.
Also, Admech Destroyers might be fair game too.

Like I said, I'd kill 1-2 bots. But the leftover 2-3 will kill the destroyers fully. Also lol admech destroyers. That's not a thing in 8th edition.


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torblind wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.

Not really. Having 1 will help draw attention away from Destroyers. Do you run Wraiths? They too draw fire away from Destroyers. Expecting ponies to do their one trick isn't going to work. It's always an army effort to make the synergy work as a whole.

Could it be that the heat that the destroyers got, kept the rest of your army alive to win the game? You keep winning don't you?

Well they were advertised as "deepstrike, point and kill anything" aaaaaaand they're FAR from that. "Do OK damage" maybe?

Sounds like you are using against sub-optimal targets then saying they don't work?

Just as a funny observation. It seems to me that ideal destroyer targets (Hellblasters, Kastellans, Kataphrons, etc) are also all units that would be ideal for KILLING destroyers.

In this game its kill or be killed I suppose.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 nintura wrote:
we have a somewhat super casual group at my store. Looking to play a monolith. I know it's very subpar, but all 3 times I've played necrons, Ive never gotten to field one and I need to get it out of my system. Suggestions?

There's the Deceiver shenanigans, but you don't have that option, and it's pretty unreliable anyway.

Deep Striking in with Nephrek Destroyers isn't a bad option. The Destroyers can hide in the shadow of the Monolith- put them only in LoS of their Target, and hidden from most of the enemy by the lith. Monoliths and Destroyers also attract the same kind of shooting as each other, lascannons, so the lith might draw fire from them.

Assault slingshot: The Dimensional Corridor stratagem lets an infantry unit deploy within 3" of the lith, then move and assault. So if you have a unit of Lychguard or Flayed Ones on the board, then anything withing ~16" of the lith (a pretty huge area) can be charged.

Refuse flank trick: Deploy 2 infantry units and a HQ with the VoD on one flank, then the Monolith on the opposite flank. You then have the option to shift both infantry units and the HQ over to the monolith. 40 Warriors and a Cryptek with the Veil, Ignore morale WL trait, and Chronometron would work. It might catch an opponent out, but even if they see it coming you don't have to do it so they can't be sure whats going to happen. You can do the same thing after deep striking the lith, but not till turn 3.

That's some uses for the lith, not sure how good any of it will be!

You've brought up an interesting point. If I deepstrike the monolith in, even on my first turn, assuming the enemy either deploys close to my line, or moves forward towards my smaller army, I can still pull a unit up to it and still be closer than the 9" limit right? Theoretically, if I DS a monolith to 9" away from an enemy unit, then spend a CP to pull a unit of Lychguard to it, they can start 6" away from the enemy correct?

Pretty sure kastellans are 6 T7 wounds with a 4+ inv save if they choose. They are a pretty tough nut to crack, even for destroyers.

On top of that, they are are almost perfectly suited to killing destroyers with their heavy phosphor blasters.

I'd say this was a worst case scenario. Add in some dice rolls that swung the wrong way and it's pretty easy to see that ending badly for destroyers.

 nintura wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 nintura wrote:
we have a somewhat super casual group at my store. Looking to play a monolith. I know it's very subpar, but all 3 times I've played necrons, Ive never gotten to field one and I need to get it out of my system. Suggestions?

There's the Deceiver shenanigans, but you don't have that option, and it's pretty unreliable anyway.

Deep Striking in with Nephrek Destroyers isn't a bad option. The Destroyers can hide in the shadow of the Monolith- put them only in LoS of their Target, and hidden from most of the enemy by the lith. Monoliths and Destroyers also attract the same kind of shooting as each other, lascannons, so the lith might draw fire from them.

Assault slingshot: The Dimensional Corridor stratagem lets an infantry unit deploy within 3" of the lith, then move and assault. So if you have a unit of Lychguard or Flayed Ones on the board, then anything withing ~16" of the lith (a pretty huge area) can be charged.

Refuse flank trick: Deploy 2 infantry units and a HQ with the VoD on one flank, then the Monolith on the opposite flank. You then have the option to shift both infantry units and the HQ over to the monolith. 40 Warriors and a Cryptek with the Veil, Ignore morale WL trait, and Chronometron would work. It might catch an opponent out, but even if they see it coming you don't have to do it so they can't be sure whats going to happen. You can do the same thing after deep striking the lith, but not till turn 3.

That's some uses for the lith, not sure how good any of it will be!

You've brought up an interesting point. If I deepstrike the monolith in, even on my first turn, assuming the enemy either deploys close to my line, or moves forward towards my smaller army, I can still pull a unit up to it and still be closer than the 9" limit right? Theoretically, if I DS a monolith to 9" away from an enemy unit, then spend a CP to pull a unit of Lychguard to it, they can start 6" away from the enemy correct?

Timing prevents that, one is at the end of the movement phase, the other in the beginning


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Aren't Kastellans only T6? They should be getting wounded on 4s then.
Also, Admech Destroyers might be fair game too.

Like I said, I'd kill 1-2 bots. But the leftover 2-3 will kill the destroyers fully. Also lol admech destroyers. That's not a thing in 8th edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.

Not really. Having 1 will help draw attention away from Destroyers. Do you run Wraiths? They too draw fire away from Destroyers. Expecting ponies to do their one trick isn't going to work. It's always an army effort to make the synergy work as a whole.

Could it be that the heat that the destroyers got, kept the rest of your army alive to win the game? You keep winning don't you?

Well they were advertised as "deepstrike, point and kill anything" aaaaaaand they're FAR from that. "Do OK damage" maybe?

At this level we can all do math to tell what 5 destroyers do against a target on average and what they don't do, can't we?

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Pretty sure kastellans are 6 T7 wounds with a 4+ inv save if they choose. They are a pretty tough nut to crack, even for destroyers.

On top of that, they are are almost perfectly suited to killing destroyers with their heavy phosphor blasters.

I'd say this was a worst case scenario. Add in some dice rolls that swung the wrong way and it's pretty easy to see that ending badly for destroyers.

Oh wow, that is tough. I guess DDA is better for them then.
Or try to engage them in CC with wraiths. Are they good in CC?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Pretty sure kastellans are 6 T7 wounds with a 4+ inv save if they choose. They are a pretty tough nut to crack, even for destroyers.

On top of that, they are are almost perfectly suited to killing destroyers with their heavy phosphor blasters.

I'd say this was a worst case scenario. Add in some dice rolls that swung the wrong way and it's pretty easy to see that ending badly for destroyers.

Oh wow, that is tough. I guess DDA is better for them then.
Or try to engage them in CC with wraiths. Are they good in CC?

Kastellans would be very hard to get into CC. I play vs admech regularly. They always sit in the middle of a cawl castle, with layers of troops between me and them.

If you CAN get them into assault, and they are in x3 blaster configuration, they are pushovers, and they *can't move* in the double-tap mode.

Basically, I think of them as mini drednaughts for the purposes of killing them. If I deep strike 6 destroyers on them, and they use extermination protocols, I expect I can kill all 4 in the squad in a turn if my dice are decent.

There are going to be some units in the game that your army is just not going to be equipped to handle. Even the codex. Not much you can do about it. Can they be tied down? Can you swarm them with large numbers of scarabs?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Pretty sure kastellans are 6 T7 wounds with a 4+ inv save if they choose. They are a pretty tough nut to crack, even for destroyers.

On top of that, they are are almost perfectly suited to killing destroyers with their heavy phosphor blasters.

I'd say this was a worst case scenario. Add in some dice rolls that swung the wrong way and it's pretty easy to see that ending badly for destroyers.

Oh wow, that is tough. I guess DDA is better for them then.
Or try to engage them in CC with wraiths. Are they good in CC?

4 destroyers are slightly better than a single DDA. With EP stratagem they are twice that of the DDA (not including the flayer arrays)

The problem with "run DDAs" is that I have to replace something to run them. My list is:

OL (veil, 3pts blade)
Cryptek (cloak)
10 tesla
9 tesla
18 warriors
3 scarabs
deceiver
5 destros
5 wraiths

Like, what do I even get rid off. 193 is a LOT of pts

And destroyers are still better points/performance wise even against T7 if they pop strat (Which I always do) :/

The deceiver is probably the most logical thing to drop.
You could drop the wraiths, but you might need them to engage those robots.

Or you could drop the warriors and run the immortals as MSU. You could field immortals in units of 6-6-7 with your current configuration. Might make them susceptible to getting wiped though.

Apparently destroyers outgun the DDA if they pop the strat. I don't like relying on low chances though. Mathhammer is good on paper, but I found its unreliable in practice.