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Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 Strg Alt wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
My frustration came from both ends. WHFB players hated everything new or interesting and sabotaged any attempt to introduce new life into the game/setting. At the same time, each release had at least one mini I would have loved to buy if only the price were a bit closer to reasonable.


Depends. If the new stuff is garbage then it is prudent to say "NO!" in order to protect the setting. Units like High Elf sky chariots were just trash.


The sky chariot fit just fine in a setting with floating sea-mountains, steam tanks, chaos everything (you see the art of their huge cannon-castle on wheels?), Skaven everything, tomb kings constructs, flying castles (Man o’War had a lot of similar crazy stuff). The High Elves, using magic the most and living near the vortex, would naturally field something to counter all the other flying units once dragons became scarce and hard to rouse.

   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





The sky chariot wasn’t stupid because magic flying things are stupid, it was stupid because an eagle is a light weight agile creature and so strapping a chariot to its back, it just looks silly.

Also people have some concept of inertia, so kinda understand that sitting in something rigidly joined to a flying animal would be pretty unpleasant and not exactly a great platform to fight from.
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
My frustration came from both ends. WHFB players hated everything new or interesting and sabotaged any attempt to introduce new life into the game/setting. At the same time, each release had at least one mini I would have loved to buy if only the price were a bit closer to reasonable.


Depends. If the new stuff is garbage then it is prudent to say "NO!" in order to protect the setting. Units like High Elf sky chariots were just trash.


The sky chariot fit just fine in a setting with floating sea-mountains, steam tanks, chaos everything (you see the art of their huge cannon-castle on wheels?), Skaven everything, tomb kings constructs, flying castles (Man o’War had a lot of similar crazy stuff). The High Elves, using magic the most and living near the vortex, would naturally field something to counter all the other flying units once dragons became scarce and hard to rouse.


They already had that, they had Eagles. Adding a boat behind the eagles is just plain dumb as if the eagles get killed your flying boat is totally useless. It either stops and floats if it is magic which keeps it in the air, or it plummets and crashes if it is meant to be the pull of the eagles which keeps it in the air. Said Eagles pulling your boat will also be completely unable to perform their usual manoeuvres to evade projectiles or other flying creatures as they are lugging a boat behind them, making them easier to hit and kill. If they do try and perform their usual evasion manoeuvres, because they are animals, then your boat is now flying completely out of control. Any small and fast flying creature, such as a harpy, could fly rings around your boat and then murder the crew. Any large monster, such as a dragon or manticore, could just smash straight through.

They also had Bolt Throwers and magical bows which would work just fine for attacking air targets.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 22:21:24


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The sky chariot wasn’t stupid because magic flying things are stupid, it was stupid because an eagle is a light weight agile creature and so strapping a chariot to its back, it just looks silly.

Also people have some concept of inertia, so kinda understand that sitting in something rigidly joined to a flying animal would be pretty unpleasant and not exactly a great platform to fight from.


Yeah I would agree with that - lots of stuff looks cool - this, for me at least looked silly - actual flying boats and ships would have been cooler - flashbacks to the ones in Slaine and the one onthe recent Balders gate intro video !

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






The amount of negativity being directed at WHFB and TOW is staggering...
I dont think anyone wishes ill on anyone or anyone's game.

There is no reason why some people cant like AOS and others like WHFB and TOW... And some people might even like both.
TOW isn't even out yet and people are taking a steamer on it lol..

I havent really bought anything 40k in ages.. The only reason I ever bought an AOS kit was conversion; vanari dawn rider for converting shining spears and endless spells for future ideas to use in my Eldar army because GW just doesn't want to make anything eldar for me to buy.

I'd rather pay for some top notch Mierce/3rd party resin to go on my pile of shame or some wacky OOP vintage stuff than GW failcast or anything they produced in recent memory (although I wouldn't be mad if somebody gave me some blood knights)

TOW will be getting some of my money for sure if they make cool hussars

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 22:35:03


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Personally I love both AOS and Old World

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Adding a boat behind the eagles is just plain dumb as if the eagles get killed your flying boat is totally useless. Said Eagles pulling your boat will also be completely unable to perform their usual manoeuvres to evade projectiles or other flying creatures as they are lugging a boat behind them, making them easier to hit and kill. If they do try and perform their usual evasion manoeuvres, because they are animals, then your boat is now flying completely out of control. Any small and fast flying creature, such as a harpy, could fly rings around your boat and then murder the crew. Any large monster, such as a dragon or manticore, could just smash straight through.

By that logic, normal chariots are equally dumb, as all of the same issues apply... As is just riding a horse.

The problem isn't one of logic, particularly when you're talking about the one of the most magically-oriented factions in the game. It's ultimately just down to whether or not it looks silly, and that's a personal thing. Personally, while acknowledging that it's a bit of an odd concept, I think they look cool, particularly as an option for said super-magical race in a high fantasy setting.

But that was exactly a part of the problem - WHFB fans could never seem to agree whether the setting was supposed to be high fantasy, low fantasy, (or even what those terms mean, exactly) or somewhere in the middle. The impression I got from the fiction was that it was always supposed to be high fantasy, but it was only towards the end that they really leaned into that with the models.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 22:35:22


 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 Mr Morden wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The sky chariot wasn’t stupid because magic flying things are stupid, it was stupid because an eagle is a light weight agile creature and so strapping a chariot to its back, it just looks silly.

Also people have some concept of inertia, so kinda understand that sitting in something rigidly joined to a flying animal would be pretty unpleasant and not exactly a great platform to fight from.


Yeah I would agree with that - lots of stuff looks cool - this, for me at least looked silly - actual flying boats and ships would have been cooler - flashbacks to the ones in Slaine and the one onthe recent Balders gate intro video !


My plan was to use the boat separately from the eagle as flying boats work on their own as far as I’m concerned. But, hey, free eagle! It’s a shame they were gone before I could find one at a decent price.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






I own a bunch of HE stuff.. I think peak HE is 6th ed Phoenix guard asthetic and talisman dragon based imrik.

But, I think whoever came up with he skycutter needed a day off the meds personally

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

Horses pulling a chariot are operating in two dimensions of movement. Stuff flying in the air is operating in three. A horse can't suddenly burrow into the ground or fly straight up into the air (Skyrim excluded), an eagle flying in the air can suddenly dive straight down or climb straight up and then what happens to the people on the boat being pulled behind it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 22:40:01


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The sky chariot wasn’t stupid because magic flying things are stupid, it was stupid because an eagle is a light weight agile creature and so strapping a chariot to its back, it just looks silly.

Also people have some concept of inertia, so kinda understand that sitting in something rigidly joined to a flying animal would be pretty unpleasant and not exactly a great platform to fight from.


Yeah I would agree with that - lots of stuff looks cool - this, for me at least looked silly - actual flying boats and ships would have been cooler - flashbacks to the ones in Slaine and the one onthe recent Balders gate intro video !


My plan was to use the boat separately from the eagle as flying boats work on their own as far as I’m concerned. But, hey, free eagle! It’s a shame they were gone before I could find one at a decent price.


I briefly saw 3 x come up on evay being sold at £30 each.
I literly thought about it 1 minute too long and they were all gone.

See thes eon occasion Re-listed at 3-4 x the price
And dont even get me started on the Dragon lord / Lore master


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Horses pulling a chariot are operating in two dimensions of movement. Stuff flying in the air is operating in three. A horse can't suddenly burrow into the ground, an eagle flying in the air can suddenly dive straight down and then what happens to the people on the boat being pulled behind it?


How do elf princelings dont fall of the giant eagles they ride?
At least a chariot you can hold on or use some sort of a rope maybe..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 22:40:11


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





 Mr Morden wrote:
Personally I love both AOS and Old World


I would be more inclined to dabble in AOS even if I hate the rules if I had a primary game I could also enjoy.
   
Made in nz
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker



New Zealand

Isn't it a roc that pulls the Sky Chariot not an eagle
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Tygre wrote:
Isn't it a roc that pulls the Sky Chariot not an eagle

Yes, whilst it looks like a Great Eagle it is actually referred to as a roc in the fluff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 22:59:56


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Horses pulling a chariot are operating in two dimensions of movement. Stuff flying in the air is operating in three. A horse can't suddenly burrow into the ground or fly straight up into the air (Skyrim excluded), an eagle flying in the air can suddenly dive straight down or climb straight up and then what happens to the people on the boat being pulled behind it?

You tell me - what does happen to the magical humanoids standing in the magically-flying chariot when it maneuvers? I must have slept through that part in high school physics.


And that's ignoring the fact that the eagle would presumably have been trained (or be under direct control) to not maneouvre in a way that would be a problem for the passengers, in exactly the same way as horses are trained to pull a chariot.



To pull this somewhat back on topic, though, I would expect to see more of that sort of stuff when the game returns. As others have pointed out, while it may well be playable with existing model collections as they've promised, given the sort of models they have been churning out for AoS it would be surprising if they don't lean hard into the fantasy elements for TOW.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




This reminds why I dislike the Deepkin Leviadon. The howdah on the turtle's back looks too silly for something that lives in the normal, non-magic ocean. Same goes for harpoon launchers mounted on the back of a shark. maybe if they'd been done like 80's/90's cartoons.. y'know, He-Man style or something....

The sky cutter boat looks silly. It's far too open for something in the air, imo. Being pulled by a bird is fine- I don't think the execution is great.

I figure that the dragon, eagle, and phoenix riders lash themselves tot here mounts (even if it isn't modeled), but I should think chariot crew need to mover around a bit more.

"It's magic" is not always a strong defense of choices made for a fantasy world. Some grounding is what makes the setting believable. WHFB had/has a logic to it. Sigmar is mostly "hee, hee, it's magical!!!!"

I do hope GW doesn't screw TOW up....... I don't want to play "soul blight grave lords," "flesh eater courts," or "cities of sigmar." I want Vampire Counts and High Elves.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 23:49:47


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Over the years the only sculpt choice I find I dislike with fantasy that GW keeps doing is putting high backed arm chairs as seats for dragons/larger mounts. They always look just - -- wrong to me. So ungainly and like a huge sail they lack the sleek appeal that winged flight animals and beasts should have; if not for aerodynamics then for the basics of combat.


Sky chariots and such I'm totally fine with but highbacked armchairs- nope!

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Blastaar wrote:
This reminds why I dislike the Deepkin Leviadon. The howdah on the turtle's back looks too silly for something that lives in the normal, non-magic ocean. Same goes for harpoon launchers mounted on the back of a shark. maybe if they'd been done like 80's/90's cartoons.. y'know, He-Man style or something....

The sky cutter boat looks silly. It's far too open for something in the air, imo. Being pulled by a bird is fine- I don't think the execution is great.

I figure that the dragon, eagle, and phoenix riders lash themselves tot here mounts (even if it isn't modeled), but I should think chariot crew need to mover around a bit more.

"It's magic" is not always a strong defense of choices made for a fantasy world. Some grounding is what makes the setting believable. WHFB had/has a logic to it. Sigmar is mostly "hee, hee, it's magical!!!!"

I do hope GW doesn't screw TOW up....... I don't want to play "soul blight grave lords," "flesh eater courts," or "cities of sigmar." I want Vampire Counts and High Elves.


You will get Orcs rather than orruks we know that much
The rest though? Who knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:
Over the years the only sculpt choice I find I dislike with fantasy that GW keeps doing is putting high backed arm chairs as seats for dragons/larger mounts. They always look just - -- wrong to me. So ungainly and like a huge sail they lack the sleek appeal that winged flight animals and beasts should have; if not for aerodynamics then for the basics of combat.


Sky chariots and such I'm totally fine with but highbacked armchairs- nope!


I mean... you need a comfy good front row seat to feel like a boss as you watch as your dragon turns the tide of enemies in front into a melting pile of goo right ??

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 23:57:40


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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




+1 to hating on the high backed chairs on dragons and other monsters, they make whoever is in them look like a baby in a baby chair.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






I think i adds to the flavour

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Horses pulling a chariot are operating in two dimensions of movement. Stuff flying in the air is operating in three. A horse can't suddenly burrow into the ground or fly straight up into the air (Skyrim excluded), an eagle flying in the air can suddenly dive straight down or climb straight up and then what happens to the people on the boat being pulled behind it?

Chariots were a very...transient concept in Earth history, because everything a chariot does, a horseman with a proper saddle can do better and cheaper. If you apply real life physics to anything in Old World, it falls apart. Like wood elf hawk riders, a bird of this size would not be able to fly with a human sized object on its back.
Also hitting a flying moving target, even relatively slow like a bird, is a lot harder than hitting a slow moving thing like a chariot, especially if the weapon is not designed to aim up like a typical ballista would.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






But elves are magical.
E.g. Legolas walks on snow while evryone else sinks

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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Blastaar wrote:

"It's magic" is not always a strong defense of choices made for a fantasy world. Some grounding is what makes the setting believable. WHFB had/has a logic to it. Sigmar is mostly "hee, hee, it's magical!!!!"

When you already have dragons and giant eagles existing and being capable of flight without their skeletons collapsing under their own body weight, a flying chariot working 'because magic' really isn't that big a leap.

 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

Can't believe we're defending magic chariots pulled by birds now, all the riders would look like Evel Knievel 10 seconds after takeoff.


Old World Prediction: The Empire will have Clockwork Paragon Warsuits 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Goose LeChance wrote:
Can't believe we're defending magic chariots pulled by birds now, all the riders would look like Evel Knievel 10 seconds after takeoff.



What about skeleton horses pulling a chariot?

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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

"A giant bird pulling a flying chariot is silly and stupid and breaks my suspension of disbelief in a world where people ride dragons, eagles, pegasi, griffons, pteradactyls, animated stone sphinxes, giant skeletal bats, giant sea monsters, and palanquins carried by ghosts because reasons xyz" isn't the rational justification for your opinion that some of you think it is.

I can understand not finding certain concepts appealing or intriguing or whatever, but the outright vehemency with which some of you insist that something is too fictional for an already extremely fictional world is ridiculous. Honestly, my local group used to tell me that I was unnecessarily negative and overly critical and opinionated about things in GWs games, but compared to some of you guys I'm fething delightful.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

 Argive wrote:
Goose LeChance wrote:
Can't believe we're defending magic chariots pulled by birds now, all the riders would look like Evel Knievel 10 seconds after takeoff.



What about skeleton horses pulling a chariot?


Is it on the ground and has at least 2 wheels? Sounds metal asf bro. Where can I get one?

Elves already have several giant birds, and they already have chariots, ignoring the fact that a flying chariot looks stupid, why is it even needed in the army?

Old World Prediction: The Empire will have Clockwork Paragon Warsuits 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Because it's not specific "to the army" as a whole? You do get that they had signature units for the different provinces of Ulthuan, right?

It's a Lothern Skycutter. Lore was that it was specific to the Sea Guard and Lothern. The Skycutters accompanied the Hawkships when they went out on patrols. The "boat" was resting upon a cushion of magic, the Roc provided the forward momentum and steering.

It really isn't that wild of a concept all told.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






I loved the Skycutter, just like I like Santa Logan and his Wolf Chariot.

Awesome models that scream Warhammer.

I think you would have seen a lot more Skycutters if they were actually worth taking in the game. They were pretty bad.

Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

What does a lore dump have to do with the model being on a table, in army that's already full of chariots and giant birds?

Rule of Cool obviously does not apply in this scenario.

Old World Prediction: The Empire will have Clockwork Paragon Warsuits 
   
 
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