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2006/02/21 04:51:47
Subject: Armoured Company test drive
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Resourceful Gutterscum
Southern Illinois
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I'm continuing my little test drive of armies I haven't played. I'm moving on from Raptor-heavy Chaos (it was fun) to Armoured Company. I'm sure my kids have enough toys that I can proxy up something decent and give it a whirl. Anyways... As I study the list, I'm discovering that building a good army is harder than I thought it would be. For example, I can't seem to fit in a comfortable amount of anti-tank weaponry in what is essentially a 12-wound army without diluting other aspects. A ton (literally) of battle cannons sounds scary, but a determined opponent can pick it apart. So, here are a few questions for the Dakka-ites: I've always considered hull mounted lascannons to be an iffy choice. Do I need to re-evaluate that for AC? How else can I keep from rolling over to vehicle heavy armies? Am I overreacting, or are things like predator-based armies going to give me fits? I'm going to assume that storm troopers and armoured fists are bad choices as they just give the enemy something to do with their guns. Is that assessment correct, or is there a valid tactic or strategy for them? Same thing for sentinels? The Exterminator looks nice, and Demolishers are always handy. Are any of the special Russ variants actually useful or should I stick with the basics? Finally, I could use some general advice for in-game play. What sort of things should I be on the look-out for? Thanks in advance. I'm looking forward to seeing if I'm a closet treadhead.
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2006/02/21 05:49:25
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Fresh-Faced New User
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If you are short on Antitank, don't forget the Vanquisher variant. 2D6 AP on a squadron command vehicle puts the frights up most other tank heavy armies, though it is sort of an Eggs in 1 basket choice. It can still fire regular HE rounds if needed, but has a longer range than a regular BC. 3 HB will help it out with infantry and Hunter Killers are always an option. Remember to screen it with normal 'russes and pick your targets carefully. The other point to remember is target priority. That Guard HW platoon may look scary, but once the lascannons/rocket launchers are taken care of, they may as well be throwing rocks for all the good it'll do your opponent. Sentinels and Exterminators are good for taking care of lighter targets with large guns ( SM dreads, AT squads, Orc tank busta boys, Vypers/L'Speeders etc) so fire with them first. Then your regular Russes. the special tanks ( Demolisher/Vanquisher ) you should open up with last, unless the DC is out of range ( if you do take a Hull Lascannon, the Demolisher is a good choice, since it gives you extra long range anti tank until it can close the range enough).
Finally remember the golden rule: Fire discipline, fire discipline, fire disipline. using a battlecannon to kill that last devastator is overkill if you can use a brace of Heavy Bolters instead ( and if that Dev' has a HB, you may as well leave him be)
Hope that helps, and enjoy. I'm intrigued to know how you fare up
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2006/02/21 06:08:21
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Dakka Veteran
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Remember that ordnance is not so bad against vehicles if you can manage to keep the circle on it. 8 + the highest of 2d6 makes penning a viable option.
Demolisher cannons are the most reliable monolith killer in the game as well, since you still get that ordnance effect vs it. 10 + the highest can pretty easily dent it, and you have to scatter alot in order to roll off the lith.
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2006/02/21 09:32:58
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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[ARTICLE MOD]
Longtime Dakkanaut
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You should be able to get sufficient anti-tank through the use of the anti-tank shells docirine.
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"I was not making fun of you personally - I was heaping scorn on an inexcusably silly idea - a practice I shall always follow." - Lt. Colonel Dubois, Starship Troopers
Don't settle for the pewter horde! Visit http://www.bkarmypainting.com and find out how you can have a well-painted army quickly at a reasonable price. |
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2006/02/21 09:36:03
Subject: RE:Armoured Company test drive
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Dinna forget laddie: 1. Tank Ace/commander BS with a Vanquisher or Laser Destroyer. Thats two heavy armor destroying vehicles. 2. Ace gunners. Effectively BS 3.5 for your lascannons. You can also re-roll the direction dice, improving your ordnance "BS" considerably. Best of 2 on the ordnance chart is not bad. 3. No self respecting armored company commander is going anywhere without a demolisher. Short range yes, but in a proper terrain environment not bad. Plus it can be equipped with longer range plasma cannons. 4. Additional options are tank busting ST's (although I prefer these guys for anti-troop or anti-speeder duty),a nd a couple of lascannon sentinels. I have found in my limited experience that my two lascannon sentinels get ignored when my opponent sees 8 tanks staring at him. The sentinels then go on to pop something particularly nasty. With a good combo of BS 4/3.5 and real tank poppers, and concentrating multiple Lemans against any particular target, I haven't found enemy armor to be a threat - indeed heavy armor fears Da Tanker Boyz.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2006/02/22 16:22:16
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Resourceful Gutterscum
Southern Illinois
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Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'm going to go for quality over quantity. I've always gone by the "more guns" mantra, but if I remove one pie-plate, I get the following effects: * reduce the parking lot and traffic jams * get enough points for stuff to keep my remaining tanks alive or fill in any holes by using specialty tanks or doctrines. It may or may not work. We'll see. I'm currently looking at 11 (maybe 10) quality tanks instead of 12 stripped down ones. What is the usual number played?
I'd love to include a couple of sentinels, particularly lascannons, but I'm afraid they'll suffer from the "broadside effect" in escalation. They'll be the only thing on the board on my side, but they won't have anything to target on the other side.
On the anti-tank topic, compare the Vanquisher to AT rounds on a basic Russ. For 15 extra points, I don't have to stand still to fire. I like the fact that I don't have to wait for an enemy tank to move into my sights and can instead pop out of cover to nail something, but is it worth that much? I'm leaning toward yes, but I'd like some input.
One thing I need clarified: Is there a rule saying that when rolling the scatter dice you must roll either the Distance or Direction die first and then the other, or can you roll them both at the same time? This normally doesn't matter, but it could when using Ace Gunners. For instance, I could roll the dice together and then scribe a circle around the intended target to see if a re-roll could yield a better result. If I had to roll the Direction die first, I would be working off less information when deciding to re-roll.
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2006/02/23 04:55:57
Subject: RE:Armoured Company test drive
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Posted By Sir Crispy on 02/22/2006 9:22 PM Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'm going to go for quality over quantity. I've always gone by the "more guns" mantra, but if I remove one pie-plate, I get the following effects: * reduce the parking lot and traffic jams * get enough points for stuff to keep my remaining tanks alive or fill in any holes by using specialty tanks or doctrines. It may or may not work. We'll see. I'm currently looking at 11 (maybe 10) quality tanks instead of 12 stripped down ones. What is the usual number played?
I'd love to include a couple of sentinels, particularly lascannons, but I'm afraid they'll suffer from the "broadside effect" in escalation. They'll be the only thing on the board on my side, but they won't have anything to target on the other side.
On the anti-tank topic, compare the Vanquisher to AT rounds on a basic Russ. For 15 extra points, I don't have to stand still to fire. I like the fact that I don't have to wait for an enemy tank to move into my sights and can instead pop out of cover to nail something, but is it worth that much? I'm leaning toward yes, but I'd like some input.
One thing I need clarified: Is there a rule saying that when rolling the scatter dice you must roll either the Distance or Direction die first and then the other, or can you roll them both at the same time? This normally doesn't matter, but it could when using Ace Gunners. For instance, I could roll the dice together and then scribe a circle around the intended target to see if a re-roll could yield a better result. If I had to roll the Direction die first, I would be working off less information when deciding to re-roll. ********************************************** On the Vanquisher. Check that I don't believe you have to sit and shoot any longer. that and their 90in range make them potent killers. The Leman antitank rounds do require sit and shoot though. On the dice rolls I believe you would normally roll them together (ie there is nothing to suggest you don't utilize normal procedures).
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2006/02/23 06:48:58
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Freaky Flayed One
Detroit,MI
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I perfer Hull mounted heavy bolters on all my russ chassises
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妖魔鬼怪快点跑 |
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2006/02/23 17:17:50
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'm also starting to piece together an armored company. Though my initial test vehicle will probably be sitting on the sidelines when all is said and done, the more I look.... the less I see a place for a Basilisk in that list. It's just a cheaper way to put a slightly better battlecannon on the firing line. (Though it may be of use, due to the lower point cost)
However, I am seeing the value more and more of the Sentinal squadron. For the price of a single Leman Russ you are getting 3 Lascannon units. Useful as a screening force to cover the flanks, or also to counter Terminators and Broadsides. Not the strongest armor in there, but more than enough to keep it safe from quite a lot of stuff out there. Tau Pulseguns could pop through occasionally, and more rarely a bolter can as well. Still might end up more survivable as a unit of 3 than a Leman Russ against things like Broadsides and Devastator squads.
As to the Russ's already on the list, you can always go with Improved Sponsons and pop some Plasma cannons or MultiMelta's on there for a bit more anti-armor oomph, though I'd prefer to keep them to the standard heavy bolters or heavy flamers in order to keep things from assaulting me. The Anti-tank rounds are wonderful, but you are already looking at 145+ points per tank without any options.
-Hans
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I hate making signatures:
Mainly because my sense of humor is as bad as my skill at this game. |
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2006/02/23 17:26:02
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The basilisk's value goes up if you have more tanks in your list, for the simple reason that sooner or later those tanks start blocking LOS to each other (which the bassie doesn't care about).
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2006/02/23 17:43:17
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Yeah, but going by the Armored Company list you need to take the indirect modification in order to fire indirect, otherwise it's just a 120" range but needs LOS, correct? If you DO fire indirect it's a 36" minimum range, and I rarely play on anything larger than a 4'x4' table, which means it would almost never have anything to shoot at unless it and the opponent are lined up at the opposite table edges.
-Hans
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I hate making signatures:
Mainly because my sense of humor is as bad as my skill at this game. |
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2006/02/23 21:29:10
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Dakka Veteran
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Well I don't play with Armored Companies but I have played about 20 times against 8 different variants from 3 players with my Space Marines and I will say from my own experiences that you want a rough mix like this. . .
2 or 3 powerful anti-tank types, I would say 3 (Leman Russes with Las-Cannons or Plasma Cannons will work very well)
3 to 5 demolishers will get people sweating, (damn I hated that battle, I lost half my army by turn 2)
3 of the Hellhounds will work damn well for the Anti-Infantry stuff, (Hellhounds are the ones with the wierd flamer weapon right?)
I haven't played against someone with that Ace Gunners Doctrine yet, but I am sure it would have won 3 of the closer games. . . He kept having issues with the demolisher cannons scattering.
Another warning I would suggest, if you can kill any damn bikers you see immediately, I won 2 of those games by a single bike squad killing 4 tanks with the Melta-Bombs.
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2006/02/24 09:37:31
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Hans:
Yup, you would need the indirect fire upgrade, but if you are playing on 4x4 tables it's not as useful (I was under the assumption it was a standard 4x6 table). Then again, from reports I've received from friends who've played AC on smaller tables, mass tank AC runs into problems on smaller boards (crowding, opponents getting an easier charge).
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2006/02/24 12:27:16
Subject: RE:Armoured Company test drive
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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Screw Armoured Company. Who wants to pay 245 points for a naked Command Russ and lots of overpriced Doctrines when for 225 you can have a BS4 Command Vanquisher in the Armoured Battlegroup list.
For nearly 2000 points you can get 10 Russ Hull (2 BS4 Vanquishers, 3 Exterminators and 5 Russes). Additionally, the 2 Vanquishers and the 5 Russes, once per game, can all fire twice in the same turn. Lets see your opponent shrug off 14 Pie-Plates in a single shooting phase...
BYE
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2006/02/24 13:41:20
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Dakka Veteran
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Where are these Armoured Battlegroup rules?
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2006/02/24 15:55:22
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Willing to consider those rules..... I just want lots of tanks LOL. But as with Happy Annie there, I don't know where to find them.
-Hans
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I hate making signatures:
Mainly because my sense of humor is as bad as my skill at this game. |
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2006/02/27 07:21:37
Subject: RE:Armoured Company test drive
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Your difficulty though is that the WD /UK website list is tourney legit, hence the focus on that list (plus easy to get vs. FW's version). Army commander and tank aces are also BS 4.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2006/02/27 09:22:24
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I think we'd all rather use the Forgeworld "Armoured Battlegroup" list, but as mentioned most don't consider those "legal." At least with AC us treadheads have a way to field our tanks without someone questioning the legality of it and then having to get into a 45 minute discussion abot forgeworld while we show them the book. The Armoured Battlegroup comes together a little more realistically than the Armoured Company or mechanized guard do as well. I like the idea of having strong tanks supported by infantry as opposed to strong tanks with no infantry or just infantry with light tanks. Either way, I tend to get hit with a lot of cheese comments around here. I've actually heard people say that they tag people's comp just for using AC at tournies. I haven't had enough experience with AC to see this firsthand, but has anyone here ever gotten this?
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2006/02/27 10:38:48
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Dakka Veteran
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Yeah, anyone that plays an effective list can get tagged at tourneys.
Oddly enough, the rest of us would consider something like that the very definition of a poor sport.
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2006/02/27 14:49:02
Subject: RE: Armoured Company test drive
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Resourceful Gutterscum
Southern Illinois
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What's the "sweet spot" pointswise for Armoured Company? I doubt it would be larger than 1850 since I can practically fill up a Force Org already...
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