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I'm really thinking about starting Grey Knights as my next army, and I have plenty of reasons why, though they don't matter right now. I'm probably going to pick up a few kits and an HQ in a few days, but I wanted to make sure I'm buying a decent, competetive army.


***new army list***
HQ - 275 points
Lord Kaldor Draigo - 275pts


Elites - 195 points
Venerable Dreadnought with two Twin-linked Autocannons and Psybolt ammunition: 195pts

Troops - 785 points
Grey Knight Strike Squad, including Justicar with Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 2 Psycannons, 7 Nemesis Halberds, all with Psybolt ammunition and a Rhino Dedicated Transport: 340pts

5 Grey Knight Paladins, including an Apothecary with a Master-Crafted Force Halberd, 1 Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 1 Brotherhood Banner and Psycannon, 1 Master-Crafted Nemesis Warding Stave, 1 Master-Crafted Pair of Nemesis Falchions: 445pts

Fast Attack - 0 points

Heavy support - 255 points
Land Raider: 255pts

Total: 1500 Points

Tactics are obvious.. Kaldor and the Paladins in the Land Raider, just surge forward, kill things and claim an objective if necessary. In kill points, I'm hoping for something like at least a 4:2 Kill:lose ratio of units with them. Land Raider just targets vehicles and drops the Draigo bomb, whilst the Strike squad just drives around shooting its Psycannons, and picking off targets where possible in close combat after massed shooting. In objective missions, they can combat squad if it's worth it. The Psyfleman just takes out vehicles/transports and eventually things like Nobs and Warriors, then anything else if it runs out of targets.

Add more to your strike squad, try to squeeze in a transport for them I guess.

Drop the apothecary, and you can get another decent sized squad

Cnevets wrote:Add more to your strike squad, try to squeeze in a transport for them I guess.

Warboss Nidsplitta wrote:Drop the apothecary, and you can get another decent sized squad

Just edited in a larger army list. Only 16 Infantry, 2 vehicles and 1 walker. At a quick estimate that's probably about £60-£75 worth of miniatures.. which is doable. Less if I recycle a Rhino from another army (which I will - already got an ancient one painted silver for no reason. Horrific thing that it is..).

You know, that isn't too bad. I think people underestimate the venerable. With the fortitude power, you could really keep it shooting until somebody gets lucky and blows off some weapons, or destroys it.

A 10 man squad is expensive and not reccomended since you only have 2 troops, breaking into two 5 man squads is reccomended.

And with Kaldro's Grand Strategy, can't you make the Dreadnaught scoring?

Soulx wrote:A 10 man squad is expensive and not reccomended since you only have 2 troops, breaking into two 5 man squads is reccomended.

And with Kaldro's Grand Strategy, can't you make the Dreadnaught scoring?

No, because vehicles never count as scoring. A walker is just a type of vehicle, so I assume 'no' anyway.

As for breaking it into two five man squads.. well, that's what combat squading is for.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Soulx wrote:A 10 man squad is expensive and not reccomended since you only have 2 troops, breaking into two 5 man squads is reccomended.

And with Kaldro's Grand Strategy, can't you make the Dreadnaught scoring?

No, because vehicles never count as scoring. A walker is just a type of vehicle, so I assume 'no' anyway.

As for breaking it into two five man squads.. well, that's what combat squading is for.

Although I probably should have included so you could include a rhino each for both sqauds.

And I thought the rule applied to walkers too.

Paladins are uber-expensive here. Drop Draigo down to Mordrak, and change the Paladins for 2 x 5 Terminators.

Then, you can lose the Strike Squad for some Purifiers; Mordrak's Grand Strategy will make them troops. Purifiers are considerably better than a Strike Squad; their get the same wargear for less, and they have 2 attacks base.

Also, the Land Raider on its own is... weak. I'd ditch it, and put the points towards extra Purifiers.

Makes a huge improvement to the list overall, whilst keeping most of the elements and ideas from the original.

It applies to the Dreadknight, but not to walkers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Popsicle wrote:Paladins are uber-expensive here. Drop Draigo down to Mordrak, and change the Paladins for 2 x 5 Terminators.

Then, you can lose the Strike Squad for some Purifiers; Mordrak's Grand Strategy will make them troops. Purifiers are considerably better than a Strike Squad; their get the same wargear for less, and they have 2 attacks base.

Also, the Land Raider on its own is... weak. I'd ditch it, and put the points towards extra Purifiers.

Makes a huge improvement to the list overall, whilst keeping most of the elements and ideas from the original.

True.. that would be an improvement. But it's sort of out of personal preferance and available plastic crack fundings that I'm going for a low-model count army.

So, the list, as I'd have it. More competitive this way.

-===-

Mordrak - 200

Purifiers (6#) - 159
- 5 Halberds, Hammer

Razorback - 50
- Psybolt Ammo

Purifiers (6#) - 159
- 5 Halberds, Hammer

Razorback - 50
- Psybolt Ammo

Terminators (5#) - 275
- Thawn, 3 Halberds, Hammer

Terminators (5#) - 200
- 4 Halberds, Hammer

Dread - 135
- 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

Dread - 135
- 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

Dread - 135
- 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

-===-

Mordrak makes the Purifiers scoring. You have more scorers this way. Your DSing is more accurate thanks to Mordrak's "First to the Fight", and you have Thawn; on a 4+, he gets back up after being killed! You also have 3 Psyflemans, not 1. It's better, in every way!

Popsicle wrote:Paladins are uber-expensive here. Drop Draigo down to Mordrak, and change the Paladins for 2 x 5 Terminators.

Then, you can lose the Strike Squad for some Purifiers; Mordrak's Grand Strategy will make them troops. Purifiers are considerably better than a Strike Squad; their get the same wargear for less, and they have 2 attacks base.

Also, the Land Raider on its own is... weak. I'd ditch it, and put the points towards extra Purifiers.

Makes a huge improvement to the list overall, whilst keeping most of the elements and ideas from the original.

So how does that keep most of the overall elements?The original list had Draigo with some paladins in a land raider, with a strike squad. You suggest Mordrak with terminators and to drop the land raider, and switch the strike sqaud for purifiers. The only thing that doesn't change is the dreadnaught

No, the 'nought changes as well.. it loses Venerable-ness and BS5.

Yes, it's more effective.. but think of the price cost? I'm 14, I don't have hundreds to dish out on armies .

4500 posts and you're only 14? Impressive. Looks like you spend your time on the internet on dakka, as opposed to the other people your age.

Popsicle wrote:So, the list, as I'd have it. More competitive this way.

-===-

Mordrak - 200

Purifiers (6#) - 159
- 5 Halberds, Hammer

Razorback - 50
- Psybolt Ammo

Purifiers (6#) - 159
- 5 Halberds, Hammer

Razorback - 50
- Psybolt Ammo

Terminators (5#) - 275
- Thawn, 3 Halberds, Hammer

Terminators (5#) - 200
- 4 Halberds, Hammer

Dread - 135
- 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

Dread - 135
- 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

Dread - 135
- 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

-===-

Mordrak makes the Purifiers scoring. You have more scorers this way. Your DSing is more accurate thanks to Mordrak's "First to the Fight", and you have Thawn; on a 4+, he gets back up after being killed! You also have 3 Psyflemans, not 1. It's better, in every way!

That list is so cookie-cutter it makes my eyes bleed. That list is completly different than what the OP posted.

Also, in that list is Mordrak is deep-striking.... by himself??

Also yeah, this list is in no way a "list improvement" it's a totally different list.

Kaldor but only one Paladin squad?
Only one psyfleman, and a venerable?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Soulx wrote:That list is so cookie-cutter it makes my eyes bleed. That list is completly different than what the OP posted.

Hahahah are you joking. That list is far form cookie cutter. I mean it has Thawn for emperor's sake. Lol.

Soulx wrote:
4500 posts and you're only 14? Impressive. Looks like you spend your time on the internet on dakka, as opposed to the other people your age.

First of all, you shouldn't go making assumptions about what I do with my life.
Secondly, you would be wrong about what I do in comparison to other people my age. It just so happens that a lot of my posts are in the roleplay board, and that usually results in lots of posts anyway. 'Sides, I type fast and I have a lot to say.

Now, back on topic.


Edit: Also, nowhere does it mention "tournament" in this army list. Just personal preferance and budgets.

From the original list here's my thoughts:

Draigo - very expensive at this point level. But certainly a beat stick.

Ven Dread - Why take this when you have HS slots open for a Normal dread equally equipped? Fewer points for the same job - ALOT fewer points! You need 2 or don't bother with one.

Strikes - Upgrades cost too much on them. Take them flat with psycannons and perhaps psybolt (and Justicar with MC DH). Taking 7 Halberds just isn't worth the points. You could get a Purifier squad with 4 Psycannons all Halberds and a DH for only 10 points more!

Paladins - You've gone OTT on the upgrades drop the master crafting except on perhaps the DH. But they should have 2 Psycannons! They also need a ride, which brings me to:

Landraider - worst variant possible in the GK codex. Doesn't fit Draigo and his boys and is worse against AV14 than a Redeemer with Psybolt which is cheaper and has better AI fire and can carry Draigo and his boys!

So drop the Halbders from the Strikes and split them and put them in Razorbacks. Drop the MCs from the Paladins and take a 2nd Psycannon and swap the LR out for a Redeemer: somthing like this:

Draigo 275

5 Purifiers - DH, 2 Halberds, 2 Psycannons, Razorback - Psybolt 199

5 Paladins - Banner, Apothecary, DH, 3 Halberds, 2 Psycannons. 425

5 Strikes - Psycannon, MC DH, Razorback - Psybolt 170

5 Strikes - Psycannon, MC DH, Razorback - Psybolt 170

Landraider Redeemer - MM, Psybolt 260


Keeps the theme the isue is to fit in 2 Psyfleman dreads you're going to have to cut Strike squad leaving you with VERY few scoring bodies. Hence I chucked in the Purifiers they still add AT fire power but also chuck in a load of anti-horde capability too which is great for such a low model count army.

Right, new list:
HQ - 275 points
Lord Kaldor Draigo - 275pts


Elites - 360 points
Grey Knight Purifier squad, including Justicar with Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 4 Psycannons, 5 Nemesis Halberds, all with Psybolt ammunition and a Rhino Dedicated Transport: 360pts

Troops - 650 points

5 Grey Knight Paladins, including an Apothecary with a Force Halberd, 1 Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 1 Brotherhood Banner and Psycannon, 1 Nemesis Warding Stave, 1 Pair of Nemesis Falchions: 430pts

Grey Knight Strike Squad, including Justicar with Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 1 Incinerator and Razorback dedicated transport with Assault cannon and Psybolt ammunition: 220pts

Fast Attack - 0 points

Heavy support - 410 points
Land Raider Redeemer with Multi-Melta, Psybolt Ammunition and Psyflame ammunition: 275pts

Dreadnought with two Twin-linked Autocannons and Psybolt ammunition: 135pts

Total: 1715 Points


Hm.. this army list has taken a price hike.. ah well, I'll make it my project for the year! I reckon Draigo, Paladins and the Strike squad are first on my list to buy, coming in at.. something rediculous like £65.. bah.. useless. Ah well, what d'you all think of this list?

You can use a Grand Strategy option to make walkers scoring, the Codex is quite explicit in that regard. While Paladins are (surprisingly) better value for points than terminators, the strike squad is fairly weak in terms of value for points, but is cheap - cheap and warpquake are its merits really.

Personally I'd say:

HQ - 275 points
Lord Kaldor Draigo - 275pts


Elites - 360 points
Grey Knight Purifier squad, including Justicar with Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 4 Psycannons, 5 Nemesis Halberds, all with Psybolt ammunition and a Rhino Dedicated Transport: 360pts

Troops - 615 points

5 Grey Knight Paladins with psybolt ammo,2 Force Halberds, 1 Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 1 Brotherhood Banner and Psycannon, 1 Nemesis Halberd and psycannon: 365 pts (apothecary is too expensive for a 5 man squad, 2 psycannons are way better than one, psybolt ammo is worth it at 20pts even for three models)

6 man Grey Knight Strike Squad, psybolt ammo including Justicar with Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 1 psycannon and Razorback dedicated transport with Assault cannon and Psybolt ammunition: 250pts

Fast Attack - 220 points

Stormraven with TL Multi-Melta, TL pasma cannon: 220pts

Heavy Support - 135 points

Dreadnought with two Twin-linked Autocannons and Psybolt ammunition: 135pts

1605 points

Though in all honesty, I'd be tempted to reduce the purifiers to a 5 man squad, drop the Grey Knights altogether and get another squad of paladins

I would drop the purifers to a 5 Man squad. They're only use is for thinning hordes.

lucasbuffalo wrote:Also, in that list is Mordrak is deep-striking.... by himself??

Also yeah, this list is in no way a "list improvement" it's a totally different list.

No, he's DSing with the Terminators. And, it is an improvement. It takes all the issues with the OP's list, and does away with them, whilst keeping most of the aspects he had.

Soulx wrote:That list is so cookie-cutter it makes my eyes bleed. That list is completly different than what the OP posted.

Not really. It keeps the Dread, the Terminators, the PAGKs, the Grand Master HQ... it's just tweaked to be better.

Popsicle wrote:

lucasbuffalo wrote:Also, in that list is Mordrak is deep-striking.... by himself??

Also yeah, this list is in no way a "list improvement" it's a totally different list.

No, he's DSing with the Terminators. And, it is an improvement. It takes all the issues with the OP's list, and does away with them, whilst keeping most of the aspects he had.

Soulx wrote:That list is so cookie-cutter it makes my eyes bleed. That list is completly different than what the OP posted.

Not really. It keeps the Dread, the Terminators, the PAGKs, the Grand Master HQ... it's just tweaked to be better.

Mordrak can only DS with the retinue Ghost Terminators, not with any random group of Terminators, as he's not an Independent Character. And I don't see any Ghost Terminators in that list

Popsicle wrote:

lucasbuffalo wrote:Also, in that list is Mordrak is deep-striking.... by himself??

Also yeah, this list is in no way a "list improvement" it's a totally different list.

No, he's DSing with the Terminators. And, it is an improvement. It takes all the issues with the OP's list, and does away with them, whilst keeping most of the aspects he had.

Mordrak can only DS with the retinue Ghost Terminators, not with any random group of Terminators, as he's not an Independent Character. And I don't see any Ghost Terminators in that list

Except the issue of not understanding how a character works.

Your list would have been a perfectly fine post if you would have said:
"This is my list and it does well for me, maybe take some cues from it to add/subtract from your own?"

However you claim it "Makes a huge improvement to the list overall, whilst keeping most of the elements and ideas from the original." When it, in fact, keeps next to nothing from his original concept and has a 200pt HQ giving away a kill point.

Update on the list.. tried to get it back down to 1.5k.

HQ - 275 points
Lord Kaldor Draigo - 275pts


Elites - 239 points
Grey Knight Purifier squad, including Justicar with Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 2 Psycannons, 2 Nemesis Halberds and a Razorback dedicated transport with Assault cannon and Psybolt ammunition: 239pts

Troops - 650 points

5 Grey Knight Paladins, including an Apothecary with a Force Halberd, 1 Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 1 Brotherhood Banner and Psycannon, 1 Nemesis Warding Stave, 1 Pair of Nemesis Falchions: 430pts

Grey Knight Strike Squad, including Justicar with Master-Crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 1 Incinerator and Razorback dedicated transport with Assault cannon and Psybolt ammunition: 220pts

Fast Attack - 0 points

Heavy support - 410 points
Land Raider Redeemer with Multi-Melta, Psybolt Ammunition and Psyflame ammunition: 275pts

Dreadnought with two Twin-linked Autocannons and Psybolt ammunition: 135pts

Total: 1594

Hmm.. where am I gonna find 94 points to drop?

Damn you Grey Knights and your expensive units! Damn you!

Hmm.. might experiment with a Crowe list next.. but I generally despise him in every way apart from Purifier troops..

I'd consider a list like this:

Karamazov - 200
Librarian + Shrouding, Quicksilver, ... - 170

10 x Grey Knights w/ Psybolt, 2 Psycannons, Rhino - 280
10 x Grey Knights w/ Psybolt, 2 Psycannons, Rhino - 280
10 x Grey Knights w/ Psybolt, 2 Psycannons, Rhino - 280

Psyfleman - 135
Psyfleman - 135

This list should be able to hold the centre and be tough to beat, thanks to Karamazov.

wuestenfux wrote:I'd consider a list like this:

Karamazov - 200
Librarian + Shrouding, Quicksilver, ... - 170

10 x Grey Knights w/ Psybolt, 2 Psycannons, Rhino - 280
10 x Grey Knights w/ Psybolt, 2 Psycannons, Rhino - 280
10 x Grey Knights w/ Psybolt, 2 Psycannons, Rhino - 280

Psyfleman - 135
Psyfleman - 135

This list should be able to hold the centre and be tough to beat, thanks to Karamazov.

Um.. that's nice.. but it's nothing like what I'm looking for. I'm not asking for "good GK army lists" I'm asking for advice on how to improve my own army lists whilst sticking to the theme and keeping the cost low as possible.

How about:

Draigo - 275

5 Paladins w/ 2 master-crafted psycannon, 1 master-crafted demon hammer, 4 halberds, psybolt ammo - 350 pts

5 Paladins, as above -350 pts

2 Dreadnoughts w/ 2xTL assault cannons, psybolt ammo - 135 pts each.

6 Purifiers w/2 psycannon, demon hammer, 5 x halberds, psybolt ammo - 189

Predator w/ psybolt ammo - 50

1494 pts total.

Plenty of psycannons and Draigo can use Grand Strategy to scout the Paladins or make the dreadnoughts and/or purifiers scoring.

Master-crafting the psycannon where possible is ne of the best 5 point investments you can make, massively increasing their hitting power for trivial cost. Psybolts on 5 man squads (and for only 3 figures in those squads) are marginally cost-effective, but still pay for themselves. Master-crafting the demon hammers seems reasonable to me as they are the weapons you really want to hit with in melee.

Hm, interesting list.. but I want to keep the Paladin squad number at one, keep the Land Raider bomb and keep my squads of PAGKs. I'm just trying to find ways of improving that setup. Thanks for your input, though.

Well the best way to improve Paladins is to make sure they have two master-crafted psycannon for every 5 models. It improves their ranged hitting power by over 20% for a less than 7% increase in model-cost. But for a 5 model squad, the apothecary is not really cost effective at all.