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Rented, do you get excited by the thought of using a water canon on people who are exercising their First Amendment rights? Do you imagine yourself wearing a brown shirt when you do this assault? I mean, if my bringing this up insults you I think the problem is with you and not with me.

Not Rented. Got the wrong person. Tis was me. If you read further back on the thread you see why I wanted to man the water cannon. I can't stand disorganization. Think its where I mention lawful and unlawful orders when someone ask me who I would support. OWS or the gov't. By my avatar you can see who I have to support

Some of you all need to take a step back and remember to breathe. With all the MOD censors its starting to look like an arterial bleed. Yes I acknowledge the 2nd warning of posting non warhammer pics. Pics of actual combat counts right?

protest organizers have said that no such plan exists, (shutting down the subways) that the goal is to gather at various subway stations and hand out flyers.

After shutting down wall street.

Doesn't Wall St. close at 5?

dsteingass wrote:Doesn't Wall St. close at 5?

Depends if its a bank holliday or not.

Great, so you would support local and state governments that were beating up, unleashing dogs, and using water canons on Civil Rights protesters?

<3

If the protestors were good capitalists, they would get evening jobs or start up a port-a-potty service or hot dog cart for the protestors in the park.

I don't think it is right to shut down the Subway's when the meatball sub is the $5 footlong of the month. That just hurts everyone.

And let's get our emotions under control and not start insulting the water cannon, it is just an innocent tool that is only guilty of being fun and awesome.

TheHammer wrote:Great, so you would support local and state governments that were beating up, unleashing dogs, and using water canons on Civil Rights protesters?

<3

I keep coming back to this thread to see what he'll come up with next! TheHammer, Ladies and Gentlemen! *Gets Popcorn*

TheHammer wrote:Great, so you would support local and state governments that were beating up, unleashing dogs, and using water canons on Civil Rights protesters?

<3

You may just want to look up the unit history of the 101st and the Little Rock 9 before making asinine statements.

How is my statement asinine? Do soldiers who follow a moral order exonerate themselves when they follow an immoral order?

Jihadin is very clear that he will support the law and government over all else. That means he will sometimes do something good like help the Little Rock 9.

It also means he'll do this:

Again, look up the history, and quit being an ass. Then go back and read Jihadin's post about lawful and unlawful orders, and quit being an ass.

Or, alternatively, continue on with your willful ignorance and strawman arguments, which ever is easiest for you.

TheHammer wrote:How is my statement asinine? Do soldiers who follow a moral order exonerate themselves when they follow an immoral order?

Are you saying that taking an illegal tent city out of a park is an immoral order? Cause I don't think it is.

<text redacted; yes, this was an example of EXACTLY the sort of inflammatory text we shouldn't have here --Janthkin>

CptJake wrote:

TheHammer wrote:Great, so you would support local and state governments that were beating up, unleashing dogs, and using water canons on Civil Rights protesters?

<3

You may just want to look up the unit history of the 101st and the Little Rock 9 before making asinine statements.

TheHammer wrote:How is my statement asinine? Do soldiers who follow a moral order exonerate themselves when they follow an immoral order?

Jihadin is very clear that he will support the law and government over all else. That means he will sometimes do something good like help the Little Rock 9.

It also means he'll do this:

How is your statement asinine?
Troops on top. Cops and Fire on bottom.
Besides that you are the only one in this thread who managed to miss that the water cannon bit has to do with IT'S A fething WATER CANNON, and not "boo hoo everyone who has thier feeling hurt should camp under an overpass in Fresno, I mean NYC"

dsteingass wrote:Doesn't Wall St. close at 5?

The plan was to get together at 7:00 in the morning. The subway stop was near the end of the activities for the day, as I understand it.

Most of the arrests today were done when they tried to shut down wall street.

Scrabb wrote:

dsteingass wrote:Doesn't Wall St. close at 5?

The plan was to get together at 7:00 in the morning. The subway stop was near the end of the activities for the day, as I understand it.

Most of the arrests today were done when they tried to shut down wall street.

You mean they were blocking traffic or trying to enter the NYSE?

@Hammer

Here you go. The gist of the water cannon was its being part of the biggest water fight I can get into so I can say "I WIN". As for you insinuating I will unleash dogs...get in the right time frame..I will personnaly shoot the dog dead if one of

my soldiers

unleash the canine. If I won't do it on insurgents I sure as heck won't condone it on anybody else. By no means I'm wounded by your insinuation Hammer....you don't meet the height requirement to even attempt that.

And what about the hundreds of vets and current serving members of the military who counter the movement?

I would say maturity have a role in my/theirs view point. Most of our early adult life is regimentize. We learn that for something needs to happen one has to make happen. Also pride is another. Very few once leaving active duty service file for unemployment for up to a year and ride it out.

The other reason to counter is "whining". Whining loses you a bit of credibility. Yes I know OWS is a protest but its not organize as like a Tea Party Protest as a comparison.

Organization is another. Some serious lack of it and eventually the unions and what have you are trying to guide them into something they're not really conforming to. With organization one would at least know how to actualy protest, knowing the ordinance/law concerning the area they're protesting in (knowing that they cannot build a tent city and living there 24/7 is against the law) Its their responsibility to know the law and what they can and cannot do while they protest.

Responsibility of one actions. If one instigate a law enforcement officer then one should know the peril he/she going to get into. If one is being instigated by a law enforcement officer then one needs to step behind the line to defuse the escalation. Example be US troops approaching a mosque to get the shooters from there which drew a lot of attention and a riot almost insued cause of their action. Command was giving to take knee and smile at the locals. Tension level dropped. Responsibility also let one know where to urinate and defecate in a facility then instead of on the ground in a public place.

well...to name a few.

Hypothetically speaking if a war broke out between two groups over weather the current government threatened the constitution, who would you wide with? The people claiming to want to restore and protect the Constitution or the POTUS and Congress?

halonachos cover that quite well for me. The military takes it commands from the PROTUS who is our Commander in Chief who was duly elected by the people..well...electoral. Before I go further I want to clarify a lawful order to an unlawful order:

If I'm order to maintain a line to keep the protest from spreading I will hold the line. I will not advance the line nor withdraw the line. If my line is pressed then I've no issue for my soldiers to zipcuff an individual who's trying to instigate a altercation with my soldier. I lot of us wear combat gloves that have hardened plastic knuckles to put someone in the right frame of mind after two hits. Thats a lawful order being carried out. If my soldier commits to repeatedly beat a insurg...eerrrr protestor beyond reasonable then he took it upon himself to break a lawful order and he better be willing to face remaficatin of the action he took.

If I'm called upon to fire into the crowd without being fired upon then thats an unlawful order and will not be followed. Unless some idiot has a weapon in the crowd and willing to use it. There be so many flashbangs thrown to take down the "Hero" it would not be funny. I will advance my line pass the main line of resistence to secure the protestors and shooter (everyone gets zippedcuff). If someone pulls a assualt rifle out from the protestor side so be it. One can wave it around and what not but unless he points the weapon at us then I'm sure the police sniper will take care of him for us if not then I will give the order to take him out with my designated shooter. Its still a lawful order since now we're at deadly force level.

If orders came down to secure the leaders of the protest its unlawful. I have to wait for the leaders to instigate against my soldiers. I will not order my troops to go in to get a leader.

I better stop since I'm going of topic

Did you repose I swear I read this earlier today?

Saw them trying to create traffic jams and running around screaming on subways today. Harassing working class people isn't going to help their movement much.

Harriticus wrote:Saw them trying to create traffic jams and running around screaming on subways today. Harassing working class people isn't going to help their movement much.

Warning: Sarcasm follows

Surely they were just passing out flyers to willing recipients.

Dang Aht...I actually had to look up the word "repose"

Me

I'm sworn to defend the Constitution of the United States from both foreign and domestic

Aht correcting me

"...that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

Show me a day when someone isn't running around on the NYC subways screaming and causing traffic jams. The stuff about the subways was a lie.

Besides, interfering with the NYC subways makes no sense, how can that have any protest-worthy value? Someone tweeted it and everyone went bat-crap crazy over it.

A few small groups tried to take advantage of an opportunity to cause some mayhem. It's the same thing that happened with the UK riots a month or so ago, just small groups of people getting caught up in the mob mentality.

I meant repost, my iPhone deliberately makes ke look like an idiot. It insists on changing the word sniper into feathers too...I'm still trying to figure that out.

gotcha Auston

you do know...when the cell grids go off line....you will have withdraws you know?

Not really, I grew up in a house with no indoor pluming and electricity from a generator that barely runs a toaster. I got my first cell phone at 20. I'm pretty sure I could give it all back up.

dsteingass wrote:Show me a day when someone isn't running around on the NYC subways screaming and causing traffic jams. The stuff about the subways was a lie.

Besides, interfering with the NYC subways makes no sense, how can that have any protest-worthy value? Someone tweeted it and everyone went bat-crap crazy over it.
A few small groups tried to take advantage of an opportunity to cause some mayhem. It's the same thing that happened with the UK riots a month or so ago, just small groups of people getting caught up in the mob mentality.

Except OWS also posted it to their website as part of their plan for the day. But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

This thread is glorious.

The Bull Connor reference was particularly funny. Can Godwin be far behind?

CptJake wrote:
Except OWS also posted it to their website as part of their plan for the day. But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

The website said handing out flyers. Someone elevated it to a terrorism threat with a tweet. But don't let facts get in the way of a good retort.

Easy E wrote:
In the old days. You are correct. Now days, things can be a bit more bottom up, with less hierarchy thanks to the internet.

Modern organizational structures don;t have to be so top-down focused. Instead, they can focus more on integrated effort, cooperation, many power sources, and nonhierarchical networks. That's part of the communication revolution.

I don't see why the communication revolution suddenly makes the basic principles of organizing large groups of people inviolate. People may be able to communicate faster, and more easily, but ultimately mobilizing a coherent group of people with the purpose of conveying a message in a physical manner still requires a fairly rigid hierarchy. Moreover, integrated effort, cooperation, and the presence of many sources of power were hallmarks of mass movements for political change in the past, the internet hasn't suddenly introduced them.

Additionally, its important to realize that mass communication is a double-edged sword in terms of organization because, while it allows you to reach more people more easily, it also allows people to reach each other; which means the idiots are allowed a voice and that's bad for everyone.

Easy E wrote:
Perhaps. But the discussion is no longer exclusively about debit reduction and slashing entitlements. Now, wealth and income inequality has re-entered the discussion.

They never left the discussion.

dsteingass wrote:

CptJake wrote:
Except OWS also posted it to their website as part of their plan for the day. But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

The website said handing out flyers. Someone elevated it to a terrorism threat with a tweet. But don't let facts get in the way of a good retort.

Wrong.

http://occupywallst.org/

Stated goals include:

OWS website wrote:• Blockade of all Entry-Points to NYSE; hundreds participate in nonviolence civil disobedience

Specific to the subways:

OWS website wrote:URGENT: to the 72% of NYC Residents who Support Occupy Wall Street: WE NEED YOU NOW!
Posted 14 hours ago on Nov. 17, 2011, 2:50 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

We are gathering at 3PM today at subway stations across the five burroughs. We will occupy the subway, and convene at Foley Square tonight at 5PM.

From: http://occupywallst.org/article/urgent-72-nyc-residents-who-support-occupy-wall-st/

Unless "Occupy" means 'pass out flyers' you are again being willfully ignorant or actively deceptive.


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Just out of curioslty, what does it remind you of when they label themselves as a "resistance movement", and state

the only solution is WorldRevolution