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rigeld2 wrote:

Sasori wrote:Swarmlord, hands down.

This.

Thirded...

I hate to say it, but Kharn doesn't even stand a chance in this match up. Even on the charge, they both swing at the same time, and Kharn, will on average will likely only deal one to two wounds to the Swarmlord. The Swarmlord on the other hand has what? 4 attacks standing? So without the charge.. three will hit, two to three will wound, kharn will MAYBE save one, but be forced to re-roll it, and then fall prey to the instant death effect of Swarmlord. Match doesn't even last a single round.

Swarmlord takes this in the first round of combat, easy, even without having to worry about his psychic powers.

voting has been opened.

swarmlord wins.

next up, Abbadon vrs Sanguinor. - discussion is now, voting: starts friday.

also, the voting to nominate our next version of the contest is up, located http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/461435.page#4553469

If we're still using 5th ed rules then its the Sanguinor. 5 base attacks, Re-rolling all failed hits, re-rolling all failed wounds and no armour saves for Abbadon, only invulnerable. Also The Sanguinor has his own 3++ invulnerable save.

yea this version is still using 5th

While the Sanguinor is truly a beast, I'm not so sure he has this one.

Both hit on 4s (Sanguinor re-rolls), Sanguinor wounds on 4s, while Abaddon wounds on a 2 (Both with re-rolls). Sanguinor has a 3++ vs Abaddons 4++, however Sanguinor has 5 base attacks where Abaddon has 6 minimum (Assuming he doesn't get the 1/6 chance of whacking himself in the face) and a max of 11 on the charge. Sanguinor has 3 wounds vs Abaddon's 4, Saguinor Initiative 6 (though furious charge) vs Abaddon's 6.

In short, the two are a close match up for the most part. However, the shear weight of attacks Abaddon can dish out per turn is what I think will tip things in his favor, and will at worst, cause a draw unless somehow Sanguinor kills Abaddon on the turn he charges (As he would go first thanks to furious charge) but that is unlikely, as he would only have 6 attacks on the charge, and only 4 of them would likely stick, and then two get negated from the invulnerable save. So, what wins out? Between 6-10 S8 attacks a turn, or Sanguinor's 3++ invulnerable save and re-rolls?

Amanax wrote:While the Sanguinor is truly a beast, I'm not so sure he has this one.
Both hit on 4s (Sanguinor re-rolls), Sanguinor wounds on 4s, while Abaddon wounds on a 2 (Both with re-rolls).

I didn't realise that Abbadon was T5, I suppose that would make a slight difference. However The Sanguinor is hitting on 3s is he not? Sanguinor is WS8 whereas Abbadon is WS7 I believe. With Furious charge The SAnguinor is also wounding on 3s re-rolling fails, which he is most likely to get since he has a jump pack.

Sanguinor has a 3++ vs Abaddons 4++, however Sanguinor has 5 base attacks where Abaddon has 6 minimum (Assuming he doesn't get the 1/6 chance of whacking himself in the face) and a max of 11 on the charge. Sanguinor has 3 wounds vs Abaddon's 4, Saguinor Initiative 6 (though furious charge) vs Abaddon's 6.

The Sanguinor I'm pretty sure is Init 7 after furious charge. He is Init 6 normally.

In short, the two are a close match up for the most part. However, the shear weight of attacks Abaddon can dish out per turn is what I think will tip things in his favor, and will at worst, cause a draw unless somehow Sanguinor kills Abaddon on the turn he charges (As he would go first thanks to furious charge) but that is unlikely, as he would only have 6 attacks on the charge, and only 4 of them would likely stick, and then two get negated from the invulnerable save. So, what wins out? Between 6-10 S8 attacks a turn, or Sanguinor's 3++ invulnerable save and re-rolls?

I don't know. I still tip The Sanguinor. Especially if he gets the charge off.

On the charge

6 Attacks -> 3s to hit (re-rolling) -> 5.33 hits -> 3s to wound (re-rolling) -> 4.73 wounds -> 2.36 Failed Invulnerable Saves.

Without the Charge

5 Attacks -> 3s to hit (re-rolling) -> 4.44 hits -> 4s to wound (re-rolling) -> 3.11 wounds -> 1.55 Failed Invulnerable Saves


Now if we consider Abadon attacking back with an average of 4 base attacks + 3.5 attack for his daemon weapon.

7.5 Attacks -> 4s to hit -> 3.75 hits -> 2s to wound (re-rolling) -> 3.65 wounds -> 1.21 Failed Invulnerable Saves


Abbadon causes less wound than The Sanguinor even when the Sanguinor does not charge. Add on that The Sanguinor will usually get the charge due to his jump pack and also the very slight chance that Abbadon could whack himself his daemon weapon then I think The Sanguinor should have it.

Also fluff wise The Sanguinor kills The Greater Daemon Ka'Bandha by stabbing his sword into him and then carrying him into the air using his jump pack and then lets him crash to the ground to his death (His wings were damaged so he couldn't fly).

Im definitely backing the sanguinor.
(also, is his avenging angel rule in use?)

blood guard26 wrote:Im definitely backing the sanguinor.
(also, is his avenging angel rule in use?)

I think so. All rules are in play if I remember correctly.

yup. all rules in play.

I've actually played out this battle on the board in my time, and Sanguinor owned big time, so its sanguinor all the way for me. Don't forget sanguinor is strength 6 on the charge.

sanguinar

Sanguinor the beast.

voting opened. (on time! hooray for lack of a life friday morning!)

Sanguinor taking this one. Where are all the abbadon supporters?

DarthSpader wrote:Sanguinor taking this one. Where are all the abbadon supporters?

Sad thing is, most people don't support him, so when given a close match up, he loses

sanguinor takes this one, kicking Abbadon out in the second round. next, we have Draigo vrs Logan.

discussion starts now, voting will open wed.


also, another shameless plug for the thread to determine the next campaign. check it out and fire a vote in.

Draigo I feel wins this one. Just looking at the statline and wargear it seems to be in Draigo's favor. His statline is all in all better, he has a better invulnerable save (3++ vs. 4++), he has a force sword...

Now if this were played by 6th Ed rules, I'd say Logan would have this one as Draigo would have a hell of a time getting past Logan's 2+.

King Pariah wrote:Draigo I feel wins this one. Just looking at the statline and wargear it seems to be in Draigo's favor. His statline is all in all better, he has a better invulnerable save (3++ vs. 4++), he has a force sword...

Now if this were played by 6th Ed rules, I'd say Logan would have this one as Draigo would have a hell of a time getting past Logan's 2+.

Mirror's my feelings on the matter.

Polls opened.

Looks like these matches lately have been pretty one sided.

agreed. all the round 2 matchups were decided by 64% or more. pretty solid arse kickings. hopefully things get a touch closer in the next round. with 4 powerhouses....it should be.

next round we get ghaz vrs swarmlord, and sanguinor vrs draigo. that should lead us up to a nice SM vrs xenos final! yay for climatic final showdowns!

the other thread kind of....died... but we did get a decision on the next theme. it will be the "Dead-est" unit. or rather, the worst unit possible that just generally fails across the board. unit will be 200pts or less, with minimum 150pts. more info to follow on the actual format, check page 1 for info as we go along. in the meantime, submit your nominations for the "dead-est unit" via PM or as a reply to this thread.

hmmm... no comments on this one?

personally....i think swarmlord takes this hes got higher init, and can force rerolls on the 1 round of invuns ghax has, and hes got more attacks.

Yea, I throw my lot in with the Swarmlord. The turn Ghaz gets his Waagh! the Swarmlord can wait it out with his psychic powers making Ghaz only hit on 5's.

ok partially going to come down to the player. i am going to assume both are good at judging distances but the ork player should either know he can charge ie be within 13 inches before trying to charge or be moving back so the swarmlord can't get off his power since they are all 12 inches or 2 D6 and psychic shooting so not going to matte in close combat.

as far as shooting ghaz has a big shoota, 3 str 5 ap 5 shots ... 1 hit, , .5 wound, .16 wound.. basically its doing nothing unless really lucky

basically played right all that matters is the assault and the math on this one isn't so hard math hammer wise

as said above given equal skill here ghaz will have the charge, eh has a longer threat range and should know about the bad juju 12 inch psychic range and can safely try to put .16 wounds on the swarmlord if he stay away so i'm math hammering it out with that assumption

ghaz waaagh plus charge

round 1

swarmlord goes first 4 attacks hitting on 3's is 2.6 hits wounding on 3's is 1.73 wounds saves on a 2++ w/ reroll successes .576 wounds

ghaz 7 attacks hitting on 4's 3.5hits, wounding on 2's 2.92 wounds, 4+ inv 1.46 wounds

round 2

swarmlord repeats above .576 wounds

ghaz down to 5 attacks , 2.5 hits, 2.08 wounds 4+ inv means 1.04 wounds

end of round one ghaz takes 1.15 wounds while swarmlord takes 2.5 wounds

2nd assault turn rounds 1

swarmlord repeat above to 1.73 wounds but save changes to 5++ so 1.47 wounds

ghaz repeat above 1.04 wounds ignoring instant death due to eternal warrior

at this point swarmlord down to 1.5 wounds left, ghaz at 2.8 lefrt

2nd assault turn bottom of 2

swarmlord at .46 wounds left, 1.3 left on ghaz

this is where it gets to close to call for me math hammer wise because the next turn ghaz dies before striking, but with .46 wounds left there is a slightly greater than 50% chance ghz wins at the end of the second round

realistically speaking it is a hair in favor of ghaz, but really its a coin toss

voting opened. polls close weds.

With the mathhammer on that, is that taking into account Swarmlords ability to force the re-rolls on Ghaz's invunerable saves?

Also, can Swarmlord use his psychic powers while locked in combat?

Another thing, can't swarmlord designate any friendly unit nearby and give them special rules (Furious charge, preferred enemy, and one other I don't remember). If he does, and can grant those to himself, Preferred enemy would give him yet another boost.

Assuming of course you hadn't factored these in already G00fy

swarmlord just barley squeaks past with 54% win. next up, draigo and sanguinor.

also, still needing nominations for the "dead-est unit" 150-200pt unit from any forceorg, check p1 OP for more details on this one.

If Sanguinor can beat out Abaddon, than he beats out Draigo, as draigo trades out the number of attacks abaddon had for hit 3+ invunerable save. So I say Sanguinor takes this one.