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What do we make of the Renegades List?
Wyvern and other arty in the heavy slot looks tempting.
Some cheap units to get some extra CP and bodies on the table?

I was looking at it for the cheap artillery but the big thing last edition was that all of the blasts auto hit (or didn't lol). Now with BS 4+, I'm less enticed. They've got some good stuff; don't get me wrong. But I think the CSM gun batteries (and leviathans) will keep me situated for the time being. Their HQ psykers are really amazing though. That alone might be worth a 150 point supreme command detachment. SMITESMITESMITE

 Darksider wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
nope, you jsut attack with the male talons they are a weapon afterall

basically you get 7 malefic talon attacks (8 if ye khorne)

they are comparable to the axe and sword because of the extra attacks... the no brainer is in the fact they are drastically less pts

Oh... Ooooh. Ok, so it's like a chainsword, not a mount attack. The wording on the power scourge threw me off because it is a little similar to mount attacks.I figured it only got 3 swings with the scourge.


Different topic, I ran 3 giant chaos spawn at 1000pt. They are amazing distractions and if they are not dealt with quickly they get out of control. Also they go berserk at 1-4 wounds, getting 2D6 S and 2D6 attacks. They are hilariously cheap, honestly I think they are cheaper than they were in 7th edition, and much better.

How did the rest of your list look? Btw which basesize has the giant Chaosspawn?

I ran 3 giant spawn, a unit of 6 pox riders, Corbax utterblight, herald of nurgle and 3 plague drones.
From FW-
"The Chaos Spawn is a complete resin kit. Please note that the base shown in some images is not included. This product includes one citadel 100mm round base."

I use maggoth lords for mine, I put the big armor plate from maulerfiends over the holes where the riders sit.


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As for renegades....
Our commanders and enforcers are not characters.
Buuuut...
Chaos spawn are infantry. So 12 chaos spawn in a chimera is currently legal, as chimera doesn't state they take up 2 places. Renegade spawn can also climb ruins!

Quad mortars are 4D6 like wyverns.
Earthshakers can be taken with, or without crew, which is kinda strange, but the cheaper the better!
Psyker Coven could cast the crazy buff pretty easily. If you have 40 mutants or whatever with pistol/chainsword, then cast Unnatural Vigor (Re-roll failed charge, hits and wounds in fight phase, then suffer D3 mortal wounds in moral) Sure its 10 to cast, but you can do it on 3D6 and get some serious punch out of your blobs! I would put the coven in a chimera.

Salamander command vehicle looks nice, unsure if they meant for us to have it or not, but it's the only salamander in the book. +1 to hit rolls for any renegade vehicle within 6"? I'm sure we will find a nice use for that with the baneblade or something. Perhaps the Malcador defender with its SEVEN heavy bolters (lol) Or just a humble wyvern or artillery piece (artillery is a vehicle now lol).


Please correct me if I am wrong, but a single heavy weapons team with a mortar is only 8pt? Why in the hell would you take a wyvern when you could have 10D6 shots for the same price? Who needs to re-roll wounds when you can fire over twice as many shots?!

Well 12 chaos spawn or in fact whatever renegade you take isn't technically legally allow to ride in a chimera, they dont have the 'Astra Milatium' keyword. XD what a complete blunder

Ogryns look good too. Actually benefit from the combat covenants.
Charging out of a valkyrie viable?


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Or indeed spawn.
NO SILLY


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A mortar team is a lot more than 8 pts. 3 guys plus mortar, minimum of 3 teams per unit

Captyn_Bob wrote:


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A mortar team is a lot more than 8 pts. 3 guys plus mortar, minimum of 3 teams per unit

I am asking about a weapons team, not squad. Squad is the whole unit, made up of teams. Or you are thinking of heavy mortar, I mean a regular mortar, the kind heavy weapons teams take.

 gwarsh41 wrote:


Please correct me if I am wrong, but a single heavy weapons team with a mortar is only 8pt? Why in the hell would you take a wyvern when you could have 10D6 shots for the same price? Who needs to re-roll wounds when you can fire over twice as many shots?!

This is indeed peculiar, BUT damage-wise I am not sold: you can max out HWT with mortars at "only" 108 teams with 3 detachments for 864pts.
They will spit out 108d6 48" S4 shots, which averages in just 126 hits with their BS and on the T3 target with 4+ save they yield 42 wounds and heavy armored T5-T7 targets with 3+ save suffer only 14 wounds.

So it is mostly an interesting "screen" choice, which can bark from far corner of the table, than a weapon to dread.

I would love to face such an army though.

P.S. Until GW fixes brimstones it is very hard to compete with them for other horde units. I personaly think GW should have allowed only Pink Horrors to be in the unit from the start, while blue and brims must become the result of split rule, not an alternative pick.

Brimstones with changeling are so stupid amazing. They are the new R&H plague zombies. I'll probably grab some just because they are too good not to have.

On further inspection, you take a wyvern because it is BS4, renegade stuff is all BS5. It really does seem like AM are better than R&H in every way. I'll have to see what happens when I try them out. Still wish I could mix/match covenants.

Seems like R&H might be good troop filler and chaff in a larger CSM list who really want to be taking elites and heavy support slots but allows us to still get CPs.

 buddha wrote:
Seems like R&H might be good troop filler and chaff in a larger CSM list who really want to be taking elites and heavy support slots but allows us to still get CPs.

True, with R&H we get enough cheap units to fill out a Brigade plus the really good CSM stuff. Just a shame the R&H stuff is so weak and broken. Honestly did no one proof read this book?

I read somewhere the Chaos Fire Raptor is now limited to heavy bolters on the sponsors. Can anyone confirm or deny?

 techsoldaten wrote:
I read somewhere the Chaos Fire Raptor is now limited to heavy bolters on the sponsors. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Base unit comes with two quad heavy bolters, can be replaced with two reaper batteries. That's it.

 techsoldaten wrote:
I read somewhere the Chaos Fire Raptor is now limited to heavy bolters on the sponsors. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Deny. It can still replace them with reaper batteries. They're not as good as they used to be mind you.
Both have the same range, bolters have 12 shots vs the reapers 6. Bolter is S5 and the reaper 7, AP and damage is the same. Reaper is 6 points more per.

Not really sure why you would want the reaper battery over the heavy bolters.

Few questioms about R&H
1) Did they get lumped with terrible morale rules again?
2) Did they get orders?
3) Do they actually actually have any advantages over IG, or are they just worse this time around?
4) Any particular stand out units?
5) Any Snipers at all? (Hoping for Chaos Ratlings for my converter Skaven...)

Asura Varuna wrote:
Few questioms about R&H
1) Did they get lumped with terrible morale rules again?
Yes? Well double random . Can be mitigated by enforcers ****
2) Did they get orders?
Nope. They get marks, and one of them isn't bad. One does nothing.
3) Do they actually actually have any advantages over IG, or are they just worse this time around?
..they can ally with Chaos? And get spawn and mutants ?
4) Any particular stand out units?
Not yet. Spawn in transports may be a winner if not faqd
5) Any Snipers at all?
Yes, marauders can take 2 sniper rifles per squad starting at 5 guys.
3+ to hit, can get -1 to hit and bonus armour in cover to be a solid little sniper unit for 34 pts (Hoping for Chaos Ratlings for my converter Skaven...)

**** The forgot to give enforcers and commanders the Character keyword. Wups

Got in two more games tonight with my Chaos gun line (5 quad heavy bolters, 2 butcher cannon leviathan dreadnoughts, a lord to let them re-roll 1's, 40 some odd brims and An'ggrath.

Both games An'ggrath barely survived through the end of two turns, but he did enough damage and soaked enough firepower that my gun line was pretty much untouched. Won both games pretty handily. Loving the "support An'ggrath's rampage" list I've got going so far. Working pretty well.

One game, I was able to out-shoot a Tau gun line and kill a Stormsurge in a little over 1 turn. He even seized on me and it still worked out, but he had some poor rolling on his fusion guns.

The second game, I was able to activate An'ggrath with only two wounds remaining and literally cleave a full strength renegade knight in half. And by in half, I mean he died outright. Before he swung. An'ggrath finished that game with 1 wound

Can someone sell me on Renegades as cheap troop choices in a KSons army? I was kinda hoping to replace some of the Tzeentch stuff in my army with Renegades but it's hard to justify taking a 40 point unit that does nothing but take up space on the board when I could instead take a 28 point unit that does nothing but take up space on the board, but can also cast smite.

Well..no. brimstones are better than all the Renegade stuff.


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But militia can take lascannons. Inaccurate ones.Making them non ignorable.

I just realised why warp talons get +2 attacks instead of +1 with there lighting claws they have two sets (4total) of them since there feet also have a pair of lightning claws.

Benlisted wrote:
So how are we thinking of kitting out our Contemptors? https://postimg.org/image/csea3mk9x/

Personally, I'm liking the look of double claws and either Hellflamers or Soulburners (2D3 2+ to hit mortal wounds is pretty tasty) depending on need to go anti-horde or anti-... bigger stuff. None of the bigger guns seem that inspiring, unless some LD shenanigans can be figured out with the Butcher Cannon? But how would you even model that thing...

Two Chainclaws and soul burners. The Soulburner is gona hit on a 2+, and within 6 inches of a chaos lord, you're gonna be rerolling 1's. 2D3 mortal wounds a turn, right before you slam into a knight and rip and tear is pretty solid options. There's a chance that rolling well, you can completely take a night off the table in a single turn. Contemptors seems straight up scary to big things now.

 Rydria wrote:
I just realised why warp talons get +2 attacks instead of +1 with there lighting claws they have two sets (4total) of them since there feet also have a pair of lightning claws.

Never thought about that, lolz.

Just ran my first 2k list against a Space Wolves army and two Imperial Knights, Won fairly handily, and was impressed with pretty much every unit I had. When was the last time you said that with a Chaos list?

Observations:

Contemptor with Chainclaws and Soul Burners is now a must take for me in any competitive list. 252 points for something that will straight up shred virtually any monstrous creature on the table is pretty awesome, those soul burners mortal wounds add up fast.

I currently believe we have the best psychic abilities in the game. Infernal Gaze is pretty nasty for sniping characters, and Warp Time is a gift from the gods. Prescience is pretty solid too, since it can be used for shooting OR assaults, but Warp Charge 7 is a bit hard to consistently get off.

When assaulting from reserve on troops in transports, remember that they disembark 3 inches when the transport is destroyed. That puts them at a 12 inch charge range if your opponent is smart, and then you're gonna be eating a lot of incoming fire the next turn.

Lightning Claws on Chaos Lords was very underwhelming, AP -2 is not high enough to make a substantial difference, especially when you're strength 4.

The Demon Prince (CSM) is surprisingly soft, so be careful where you commit him. Even a Khorne prince isn't a huge beatstick against monsters and knights.

Warp Talons are now one of the best units in my army. Being able to deep strike, and then use them to shut off an entire units overwatch is pretty awesome.

Watch out for Meltaguns on characters. They pack a surprising punch with a single shot.

Rhinos are actually durable enough to make taking a combi-melta worth it. Get out there, harass some stuff, and absorb some overwatch with 'em!

My only issue with warptalons is that they only have 2 attacks each, unless you bring 10 its not enough to justify their points cost in my opinion.

With Rhinos do you reccommend the combimelta or go full horde killer and go for the extra combi bolter and havoc giving you 4 str 4 and d6 str 5 at 24-12 and 8 str 4 and d6str 5 at 12-0.

Also if you want nasty prescience and noise marines go together beautifully, a 10 man squad will put out 30 str 4 shots a turn at 2+ and if there is a Lord or DP nearby thats a rerollable 2+, against str 4 youre averaging 14/15 wounds, and if someone does kill them they get ynnari lite and make an immediate shooting attack.

Couple of questions

Are Bloodcrushers any good this edition and how would you use them in a list?

Does Chaos have anything like the Imperium Assassins?

demontalons wrote:


With Rhinos do you reccommend the combimelta or go full horde killer and go for the extra combi bolter and havoc giving you 4 str 4 and d6 str 5 at 24-12 and 8 str 4 and d6str 5 at 12-0.

Also if you want nasty prescience and noise marines go together beautifully, a 10 man squad will put out 30 str 4 shots a turn at 2+ and if there is a Lord or DP nearby thats a rerollable 2+, against str 4 youre averaging 14/15 wounds, and if someone does kill them they get ynnari lite and make an immediate shooting attack.

I literally so this w noise Marines but keep a DP or chaos lord nearby to provide the reroll 1s aura instead of relying on a psychic ability.

What do we think about Defilers? They are pretty hardy now, but the loadout is a question. It seems to be torn between CC and fire support :

1) Long range, twin reaper autocannons, or twin lascannons? Given the damage potential of lascannons now, I can't help thinking they are the better choice. But BS 4+ though...

2) Close range, heavy flamers or the scourge? I feel like the heavy flamer is a better choice, simply because it may stop the opponent from charging you nilly willy. After all, 2d6 autohits are nasty. I'd even go ahead and add a combi flamer in there for real intense melee deterrent.

The scourge gives the defiler double the melee ooomph however, which is interesting. But I think I'd rather make him difficult to charge (and re charge after retreating), than committing him to a half combat half ranged unit.

Or perhaps it's best to accept the defiler is a full on ranged unit, take the havoc launcher instead. But at that point, you are better off taking a laspred or havocs instead, no?

Loopstah wrote:
Wings, Khorne, Malefic Talons and run it behind a bunch of Rhino's full of Berzerkers.

With Wings it can keep up with the Rhinos and still avoid being shot due to having <10 wounds.

When eveything piles out of the Rhinos he's there to provide tasty re-rolls and smash face.

Alternatively a biker lord will do the same thing for a bit less points.


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Conscripts are 4 pts with the same stat line as cultists except for the 5+ save where cultists have 6+ right? Then why are cultists 5 pts?

Conscripts can be in 50 man units, cultists get 40.
Conscripts can take orders, cultists cannot.
Conscripts Hva a 5+ save, cultists have 6+.

Can someone explain this to me?


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They do have better BS and WS, they can also take flamers and stubbers.

With cc weapon and pistol they can shoot in cc and hit twice. Get a lord, and a sorcerer, use warptime to get into cc, reroll 1's to hit. could be pretty effective.

Some units are just better than others. Why are brimstone horrors 2 points? They have a 4++ and can cast smite

Does anyone know if Kytan Daemon Engines looks viable in this edition?

Gibs55 wrote:
Does anyone know if Kytan Daemon Engines looks viable in this edition?

I think they look pretty solid myself, especially if you use a Sorcer...excuse me, Slaughterpriest, to give them a free move so you have good odds of a turn 1 charge.