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Made in se
Dakka Veteran





Asura Varuna wrote:
Does it seem likely that the units deploying with the strategem being able to move and charge turn 1 was an oversight? I thought almost every ability that allowed "infiltrate", or even the deceiver's redeployment stipulate that those units can't charge if they deploy with this method.

I wonder if it's something that's going to be swiftly FAQ'd. It could be for consistency as much as because the rule itself is completely bonkers.


Genestealer Cults can infiltrate 9" away, move and then charge you on turn 1, and that's without the need for a Command Point.

I doubt it's an oversight that RG can do the same once for 1 CP.

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Made in gb
Water-Caste Negotiator




 MinscS2 wrote:

I doubt it's an oversight that RG can do the same once for 1 CP.


Is it once though? It's a strategem that's used before the first turn, so you can use it as many time as you like. Provided you spend the command points to do so, you can infiltrate your whole army, right? Also, cult ambush is a randomly rolled rule, this is guaranteed. I'm sure GSC players would gladly pay a CP to choose which result they wanted. The other differences between this and Cult ambush is that ambush is on any turn, not just before the first turn, and that quite fankly SM units are a lot scarier than the GSC ones able to make use of this power (besides perhaps purestrains).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'm pretty sure the intent is that you can use it once.
   
Made in se
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




Asura Varuna wrote:
Is it once though? It's a strategem that's used before the first turn, so you can use it as many time as you like. Provided you spend the command points to do so, you can infiltrate your whole army, right?


You can use it as many times as you like since deployment happens before the battle has started. You still need to deploy half of your units on the table, that rule is universal.

Asura Varuna wrote:
Also, cult ambush is a randomly rolled rule, this is guaranteed. I'm sure GSC players would gladly pay a CP to choose which result they wanted. The other differences between this and Cult ambush is that ambush is on any turn, not just before the first turn, and that quite fankly SM units are a lot scarier than the GSC ones able to make use of this power (besides perhaps purestrains).


The Raven Guard stratagem is also random in the sense that you have to deep strike before the first turn starts, meaning that if you don't get the first turn you still have to deploy your units before your opponent plays his turn. If your opponent is willing to spend a CP reroll on the seize that's at best a 69% chance of getting turn 1, if you have fewer drops.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

In matched play though you can only use the stratagem once per turn. So one unit can do that.
Even if you can use it multiple times, it's 1CP each time.

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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
In matched play though you can only use the stratagem once per turn. So one unit can do that.
Even if you can use it multiple times, it's 1CP each time.

Once per phase. And you are not in a phase when you're using the Raven Guard stratagem.
   
Made in se
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
In matched play though you can only use the stratagem once per turn. So one unit can do that.
Even if you can use it multiple times, it's 1CP each time.


"The same stratagem cannot be used by the same player more than once during any single phase. This does not affect stratagems that are not used during a phase, such as those used 'before the battle begins' or 'at the end of a battle round'."
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Huh, I did not know that.
That's weird. I guess they can spam it a bunch of times then.

What I have
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~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




sossen wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
In matched play though you can only use the stratagem once per turn. So one unit can do that.
Even if you can use it multiple times, it's 1CP each time.


"The same stratagem cannot be used by the same player more than once during any single phase. This does not affect stratagems that are not used during a phase, such as those used 'before the battle begins' or 'at the end of a battle round'."


Okay, then yeah that is pretty nuts. I feel like it should cost a lot more now, lol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/22 18:03:10


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Infantry only for the Raven Guard Stratagem. Just for reference.
   
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Not dreads?

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Melissia wrote:
Not dreads?


Not according to the leak which is a pic taken from the book.
   
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USA

Huh. Guess the previous rumors saying it was about characters, infantry, and dreads for CTs was wrong.

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My blog
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Not quite, the CT seems to affect all three but this particular stratagem does not.
   
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Ah, that makes more sense.

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Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

Regular Space Marine Lieutenants are now a thing. Yay for putting them in transports with the regular guys.

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Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Regular Space Marine Lieutenants are now a thing. Yay for putting them in transports with the regular guys.


I'm thinkinbg a razorback with a devestator squad + Lt would be a decent grouping

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Sioux Falls, SD

BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Regular Space Marine Lieutenants are now a thing. Yay for putting them in transports with the regular guys.


I'm thinkinbg a razorback with a devestator squad + Lt would be a decent grouping
Definitely. I am putting one with Pedro Kantor and his Command Squad (or Honour Guard and an Ancient if I can find the points). A Lieutenant is pretty fluffy to have for me since Pedro Kantor is the Captain of the 1st Company in addition to being Chapter Master. Having him roll with his Second in Command for the Company is great.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a side note, per the MWG Codex preview, named Characters MUST take the Warlord Trait associated with their Chapter. So...Rampage for Pedro Kantor it is, I guess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/23 04:38:51


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Miles City, MT

Has anyone heard or seen exactly how the Iron Hands Strategem, Machine Empathy works?

I tested it as a freebie, working all game, on all tanks; but after seeing a few of the other strategems, that is probably wrong.

I feel what it will probably end up being 1cp for one tank for one phase. Which really doesn't sound very good to me, but I just have no clue ultimately what it will be.

I don't think I will be pre-ordering, or ordering a codex right away. I will probably dl a pirated copy first to find out if the book is even worth getting for me.

I feel I will ultimately sit this edition out with the way things have been going. There are obvious inbalances in the CTs and Strategems and they are not all evening things out. And not just for my army, though that is my main concern.

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Made in gb
Been Around the Block




With the exception of the RG Stratagem (which happens before the first turn aka outside of a Phase) all of them are X CP for one unit, once per phase.

So RG get the best CT and Strat?

If you watch the video you can easily pause and screen print.
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






And an awesome relic too, its basically a "yes, you get to pull off the charge" jump pack (advance+charge+reroll charge range)

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
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 NorseSig wrote:
Has anyone heard or seen exactly how the Iron Hands Strategem, Machine Empathy works?

I tested it as a freebie, working all game, on all tanks; but after seeing a few of the other strategems, that is probably wrong.

I feel what it will probably end up being 1cp for one tank for one phase. Which really doesn't sound very good to me, but I just have no clue ultimately what it will be.

I don't think I will be pre-ordering, or ordering a codex right away. I will probably dl a pirated copy first to find out if the book is even worth getting for me.

I feel I will ultimately sit this edition out with the way things have been going. There are obvious inbalances in the CTs and Strategems and they are not all evening things out. And not just for my army, though that is my main concern.


if its one CP for 1 use on a single unit for one turn then yeah won't be that great, but it'll be situationally handy

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Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Well, I guess if you are tank-heavy (especially vindis) the situation will happen more often.

But...tanks don't benefit from CT.


Dreadnauts however, gain from both, so a dread-heavy IH list could potentially be efficient.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





we'll have to wait and see, compared to some of the old codgers here I'm newish to 40k, and even I've seen stuff that was previously dismissed as not that great, becoming the key to the "next hot broken thing"

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Made in gb
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UK

BrianDavion wrote:
we'll have to wait and see, compared to some of the old codgers here I'm newish to 40k, and even I've seen stuff that was previously dismissed as not that great, becoming the key to the "next hot broken thing"


Indeed we have not seen how all the possible combinations work and how powerful they are. It is however certain that for a few months only Marines (Loyal and Chaos) will have these - hopefully a few other factions will be part of the next ten "Chosen" codexes before Christmas.

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Newark, CA

Gibs55 wrote:
Well it seems like IF are probably the weakest.


Only for trait. Their tactic is pretty good if you play on a board with good terrain (or in a cityfight), and their stratagem is bone-breakingly good with the right unit combos.

Salamander trait is definitely awesome, but their warlord trait sucks, and I can't think of any way to combo their stratagem with anything.

The Ravenguard trait is godly, but IIRC they're a chapter that likes to get in close. Also, it's not going to save you against any kind of assault army since they tend to be shooting-light.

I've only seen a few reviews about all this on youtube (which means I've nearly read the entire codex, but I can't reference anything) and they balanced the chapter abilities around everything. So some traits are going to be good, and some are going to be bad. But the bad traits make up for it elsewhere (unless you're Ultramarines, in which case you're just not allowed to ever have anything bad.)

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Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






RG has an awesome tactic, an awesome relic, a darn good stratagem, and a warlord trait that combos with the relic.
Honestly, RG are pure awesome.


IF have a great trait and tactics for city-fight or fortification heavy lists, and a decent stratagem, the relic is decent.

CF have a subset that is slightly less awesome in siege/city warfare, and have a smash-face warlord. I'd prefer the IF to go all-in on one style.


UM have a meh relic, possibly broken trait, rather good stratagem, and decent tactics. seem to lend themselves to infantry-heavy lists who milk a lot of command points.


BT has a weird relic, not sure if useful, but the tactics are good, the stratagem is potentially useful (shuts down a weakness), poor trait is poor though. not a fan.


Sally tactics, I personally like. the relic is meh (toughness isn't as important these days) the trait is meh (likewise strength) and the stratagem is decent, but has counter-synergy with the tactics.
Sorry sally, you got the short stick.


WS have a pretty good tactics, a decent trait, rather lousy relic but a stratagem that is both great, and combos with the tactics-so I'd rather them pretty good as well.

last, IH, good tactics, decent trait, decent relic, and decent stratagem. relic and trait slightly combo, but nothing extraordinary.



Overall rating them
Top: Ravens, Scars, Ultras
Mid: Imperial fists (super-top in city fight/siege mission), Crimsons, Iron Hands
Bottom: Sally, Templar (despite great tactic)

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Sioux Falls, SD

The UM relic is basically the old Shield Eternal without using an arm slot. It is literally free for a Captain. I don't see how that is meh other than the fact it is Captain only. I would say that is pretty darn good. It is better than the actual Shield Eternal for a Captain.

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Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Its meh because 3++ isn't hard to get and a deny attempt isn't impressive.
The actual shield gives the ability to resist multi-damage better, and that's a better ability.

When you got two similar relics, the value of the lesser one drops significantly.

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 BoomWolf wrote:
RG has an awesome tactic, an awesome relic, a darn good stratagem, and a warlord trait that combos with the relic.
Honestly, RG are pure awesome.



Personally, i find the Raven Guard relic pretty meh and pointless.

If i want to re-roll a charge, i'd just bring Shrike and have it as a bubble and a better re-roll bonus.
Sure, the advance and charge might come in handy every so often, but, for me, the whole point of taking the jump pack to begin with, is the deep strike option.
   
 
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