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 ph34r wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
EDIT: (this is based off some user in this thread saying this photo was posted a few week ago somewhere on Facebook. I have no first hand knowledge of that being the case or not)

According to GIS, that image is really new.

I pray you are right! The Eldar don't deserve garbage doctrines.

In *theory* that images was updated 10 hours ago to include the Iyanden one check as verified, still never heard of it before today so let's see.

Very underwhelming. Not just in power level, but in flavor. Hope the items and stratagems compensate.

 Galas wrote:
The Sam-Haim seems to be agaisn't the design phylosopy of all Chapter Tactics. They are all generic to affect all the army, how is the Sam-Haim one just gonna affect jetbikes?
So you have a Craftworld trait that affects all your army... but it doesn't? It doesn't makes sense.

The rules just wouldn't have any pre-conditions like the SM ones. Just take them as they are.

 bullyboy wrote:
Pictures angry Saim Hann players pulling shurican cannons off jetbikes and reapplying scatter lasers, lol.

Even if that trait ends up being true, Shuricannons would still be better for Windrider. You cannot shoot a Heavy weapon after Advancing, which is the whole point of Battle Focus.
And weapons that have no AP are not very good this edition. Shuriken weapons at least have a change to be AP-3.
Now if they tweak the points values or make Scatter lasers Heavy 6 or something like that, it changes everything.

But I agree that the Saim-Hann trait doesn't seem right. It only affects 1 weapon on a single unit type. Seems more like a stratagem than an overall trait.
I'd bet it is more of a copy-paste of the White Scars chapter tactic, possible mixed with Black Templars

 Galas wrote:
At this point they should just give Chapter and Legion tactics to every type unit in Chapter Approved. (Ignoring superheavies and flyers, superheavies shouldn't have that, not baneblades or Mechanicus Knights ,etc... and IG flyers being Aeronautica Imperiales don't have them either)

Daedalus81 wrote:
There are enough dead horses in this thread to supply an entire Mongol horde.

An Undead Mongol Horde, maybe

But whats the reasoning? Guard made it so you have to take the 3-5 super heavies or the sup command detachment. Granted you can take 3 platoon leaders for a total of 90 points just to get doctrines but its still a tax. Leave it as is. Give it only if you take it in a detachment that isn't by itself.

I suppose that if every superheavy can have "Tactics" it could be balanced, but I think it limits the scope and freedom of those tactics.

Is not the same to give a -1 to hit in a 12" range to normal tanks, dreadnoughts and foot troops than to Imperial Knights, Khorne Lord of Skulls, Titans, Baneblades, etc...

 ph34r wrote:

Why would Saim-haan want to charge anything? Why would Saim-haan ever want to take a Heavy weapon which can't use Battle Focus?

W H A T T H E F * * * * O F C Y R A X U S

Actually the Saim-Hann gains nicely from that trait, Scatpacks can move and shoot at full BS again, and Shining Spears get re-rolls to charge. The index Battle Focus is a complete trash rule anyway.

Dionysodorus wrote:
Iyanden's isn't actually a copy-paste. Its morale effect is significantly better than what the Valhallan doctrine does (tempered by Eldar units benefiting much less from it than Guard units would). If the image predates any of these articles, that's pretty compelling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So they get the 6+ ignore wound thing on everything but heaven forbid Iron Hands get anything close to good right?

Oh yeah, this is total bs. They should absolutely FAQ Marines to get Chapter Tactics on everything, maybe excepting flyers. The only real problem unit I foresee would be Razorbacks, so nerf them in some other way.

Assault Cannons need a mild price increase and that's it. I'd think a cool extra 10-15 points would do it.

 Galef wrote:
But I agree that the Saim-Hann trait doesn't seem right. It only affects 1 weapon on a single unit type. Seems more like a stratagem than an overall trait.

I don't have my Indexes on me, but do Vypers not have the Jetbike Keyword?

Maybe they do in the Codex, which gives it a bigger application.

 Imateria wrote:

Actually the Saim-Hann gains nicely from that trait, Scatpacks can move and shoot at full BS again, and Shining Spears get re-rolls to charge. The index Battle Focus is a complete trash rule anyway.

Why would you want Scatter Lasers on your bikes unless they buff them somehow? Battle Focus makes a bigger difference than this supposed craftworld trait, unless it lets vehicles move and fire without penalty. Then it's... still not very good, bu hey.

 Cream Tea wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

Actually the Saim-Hann gains nicely from that trait, Scatpacks can move and shoot at full BS again, and Shining Spears get re-rolls to charge. The index Battle Focus is a complete trash rule anyway.

Why would you want Scatter Lasers on your bikes unless they buff them somehow? Battle Focus makes a bigger difference than this supposed craftworld trait, unless it lets vehicles move and fire without penalty. Then it's... still not very good, bu hey.

I thought the 'supposed' trait literally does do that... lets vehicles move and fire heavy weapons without penalty. Making scatter lasers usable again, as they are currenly pointless as your jetbikes would need to be stationary to shoot.

Means they can't advance and shoot, but thats no big deal.

Be interesting to see if those traits are accurate though. Did they say which craftworld is up tomorrow?

Biel-Tan is up for tomorrow.

Niiru wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

Actually the Saim-Hann gains nicely from that trait, Scatpacks can move and shoot at full BS again, and Shining Spears get re-rolls to charge. The index Battle Focus is a complete trash rule anyway.

Why would you want Scatter Lasers on your bikes unless they buff them somehow? Battle Focus makes a bigger difference than this supposed craftworld trait, unless it lets vehicles move and fire without penalty. Then it's... still not very good, bu hey.

I thought the 'supposed' trait literally does do that... lets vehicles move and fire heavy weapons without penalty. Making scatter lasers usable again, as they are currenly pointless as your jetbikes would need to be stationary to shoot.

Means they can't advance and shoot, but thats no big deal.

Be interesting to see if those traits are accurate though. Did they say which craftworld is up tomorrow?

The way it's worded in the picture, it applies only to jetbikes, not vehicles.

Tomorrow is Biel-Tan.

 Redemption wrote:
Biel-Tan is up for tomorrow.

That should prove it then. It's a very odd guess for a trait... +1 ld is not that good, it's not like Eldar struggle for leadership, and why give a re-roll 1's ability to shuriken weapons, when the Autarch gives a reroll 1's to all weapons, shooting and melee. Seems weird.

If these turn out to be true, it looks like GW really, REALLY wants you to field loads of Guardians. Yet in true GW fashion, they'll miss the mark entirely.

These are so obviously fake people, come on and use your heads. The image never appeared until today, on 4chan, AFTER the Ulthwe preview was out, and even more damning, it specifically mentions "Shuriken weapons" and "Jetbikes" in the traits, which is impossible because GWs 8th edition design paradigm for sub-faction rules is that they all apply to the same sets of units and have an effect that works for all of them.

How could Saim-Hann or Biel-Tan possibly be true when we already know that Iyanden and Ulthwe affect units that are not Jetbikes and do not have Shuriken weapons? The fact that anyone believed this crap for a second is sad.

Yeah I'm skeptical as well. I haven't seen the picture before, and the ones we haven't seen are the most nebulous.

chosen_of_khaine wrote:

 Silentz wrote:

chosen_of_khaine wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
That image is pure speciuulation, posted on Facebook a couple of weeks ago by someone saying "what do you guys think of these?"

Those are suspiciously accurate guesses then, as the Iyanden and Ulthwe ones don't really match the fluff at all and seem completely out of left field.

Haha that's a really good point.

I think we've always suspected Alaitoc will be Raven Guard/Alpha Legion. Presumably they will get the infiltrate stratagem then?

Yeah, though I think even that kinda goes against the fluff (I'm not a big fan of Alaitoc so I could be off on this) as I thought the reason there are so many rangers/outcasts/pathfinders is because the craftworld itself is extremely strict in its "path" system, causing many younger Eldar to choose the path of the outcast instead. So in other words, it's not the craftworld itself that uses sneaky tactics, but those that leave.

Also, I'm *hoping* a deep strike stratagem is for all Craftworlds at this point.

Alaitoc makes use of its Outcasts as they stay loyal even if they don't like the strictness of the Path system, so that Craftworld Attribute is expected for Alaitoc.

The Biel-tan one (if true) is disappointing and not very thematic. Re-rolling 1's to hit for shuriken when most Aspect Warriors don't use shurikens as their main weapons? When was the last time Banshees or Scorpions seriously shot with their pistols?

Trolling people for 1 day? not very creative. I give it a 90% chance this is true.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Trolling people for 1 day? not very creative. I give it a 90% chance this is true.

Except the track record of 4chan (even allowing for the fact that it has always been multiple people because of the anonymity problem) is by far one of the worst of any that I track.

4chan - Total rumors: (5 TRUE) / (102 FALSE) / (4 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - Updated 8/31/2017

They regularly troll everyone and post incorrect information. To put this into perspective, even Ghost21, a confirmed fake, has a better track record than the 4chan community.

ghost21 - Total rumors: (8 TRUE) / (59 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - NO RUMORS OUTSTANDING - CONFIRMED FAKE

Tidied OP up a bit and added new stuff, let me know if I missed anything

 Xenomancers wrote:
Trolling people for 1 day? not very creative. I give it a 90% chance this is true.

This is 4chan though...

Iracundus wrote:

chosen_of_khaine wrote:

 Silentz wrote:

chosen_of_khaine wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
That image is pure speciuulation, posted on Facebook a couple of weeks ago by someone saying "what do you guys think of these?"

Those are suspiciously accurate guesses then, as the Iyanden and Ulthwe ones don't really match the fluff at all and seem completely out of left field.

Haha that's a really good point.

I think we've always suspected Alaitoc will be Raven Guard/Alpha Legion. Presumably they will get the infiltrate stratagem then?

Yeah, though I think even that kinda goes against the fluff (I'm not a big fan of Alaitoc so I could be off on this) as I thought the reason there are so many rangers/outcasts/pathfinders is because the craftworld itself is extremely strict in its "path" system, causing many younger Eldar to choose the path of the outcast instead. So in other words, it's not the craftworld itself that uses sneaky tactics, but those that leave.

Also, I'm *hoping* a deep strike stratagem is for all Craftworlds at this point.

Alaitoc makes use of its Outcasts as they stay loyal even if they don't like the strictness of the Path system, so that Craftworld Attribute is expected for Alaitoc.

The Biel-tan one (if true) is disappointing and not very thematic. Re-rolling 1's to hit for shuriken when most Aspect Warriors don't use shurikens as their main weapons? When was the last time Banshees or Scorpions seriously shot with their pistols?

biel tan isnt just about aspect warriors. Banshees, scorpions and dire avengers have them, as do shining spears and reaper exarches.... . Also pistols are also used to shoot in cc now,. Im pretty ok with that and the ld buff, im a Biel Tan collector/player...

As I have 4K pts painted as Biel-Tan, I suppose I can run Alaitoc and say they are Corsairs... -1 to hit my Serpents seems better than the 6+ ward, which I can still pick up.

I have never had to utilize Ld buffs so seems very wasted and Autaurchs have a better overall +1 bubble.

So is Ulthwe the first one where the Super Special Not-Saving-Throw of Various Random Names doesn't stack with other Super Special Not-Saving-Throws of Various Random Names?

Is this a power decline after the first wave of codexes?

Too early to tell for sure, but how do you all think the Craftworld traits will interact with the Ynnari rules?

As it stands, the unit only needs The Aeldari keyword to qualify for Ynnari, and they don't lose the <Craftworld> keyword. Assuming the requirement to qualify for a Craftworld trait is the same as in other codex's, the two should not conflict, correct?

Spartacus wrote:
Too early to tell for sure, but how do you all think the Craftworld traits will interact with the Ynnari rules?

As it stands, the unit only needs The Aeldari keyword to qualify for Ynnari, and they don't lose the <Craftworld> keyword. Assuming the requirement to qualify for a Craftworld trait is the same as in other codex's, the two should not conflict, correct?

As it stands, it's a definite maybe.

We basically won't know until the codex is released, because we don't know the exact wording of the Craftworld Traits page. Might have a sentance that says "If detachment is Ynnari, then they do not get craftworld traits". Or it might specifically say "Ynnari also gain craftworld traits if detachment is battleforged". There is no way to know, unless one of the preview days gives a Ynnari example.

Did you see where
Warlocks are now 35 points? they SpiritSeer is 10 points more at 45 points.

good for spiritseers bad for warlocks

 admironheart wrote:
Did you see where
Warlocks are now 35 points? they SpiritSeer is 10 points more at 45 points.

good for spiritseers bad for warlocks

I assume you're getting that from the community page saying "only 10 more than a warlock!". But there's no reason that the person who wrote that might not have been referring to the current warlock cost, as they're still working from whatever they're being told to release on a day-to-day basis. They might not know the new warlock costs.

Alternatively, the Warlock might be 35 points, but might have the rules changed. They might get the full version of smite, or gain some wounds.

They don't have the wraith buff aura, and they have less wounds, and an awful version of smite. There was no reason to take one from the index, and if they stay the same and are 35 points, taking a bunch of spiritseers instead is a no-brainer.

Another thing - Warlocks might stay the same at 35 points, but get their jetbike upgrade a lot cheaper. Spiritseers can't take jetbikes, and warlocks on jetbikes (at the right price) might well be worth it. Return of the seer council, would be nice.

Can’t take jet bikes “yet”...