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True but the TV doesn't really fit a remain stationary and defend from range concept. But it does have its own invul so it doesn't need the GP aura.
Just trying to figure out how I could have a repair team safely tail the TV to keep being grease monkeys. I suppose Crypteks are characters~ so I could just try to keep them wrapped with something that can keep up with the TV's 8 move..
... Huh, would TV with Destroyer wingmen be good? Ima need to look into this...
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
Cryptek will keep up, also the spyder can advance and repair. They will probably ignore the spyder first, then kill it, but either way thats less going into the TV lol. Plus I have been trying to look for reasons tyo take the spyders anyway since they are good for denying powers. Gloom prism is a really good deal IMO.
With the beta character targeting rules you can hide a unit of scarabs just out of LOS and your Cloaktek is untargetable by shooting. As long as the scarabs are closer to the shooter, they can't target your Cloaktek, and scarabs are already pretty low to the ground. Reminiscent of the old 3E Spyder strategy actually!
People keep saying beta codex.
The leaked YouTube video IS the codex if I'm not mistaken. I think people may be getting there hopes up for anymore changes.
mhalko1 wrote: People keep saying beta codex.
The leaked YouTube video IS the codex if I'm not mistaken. I think people may be getting there hopes up for anymore changes.
The uploader of the video said it's a beta codex. So pretty sure it's a beta, it's probably close to the final product but it isn't complete for instance there is no voidscythe which is referenced in the voidreaper's artefact page.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 22:34:05
Psienesis wrote: While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons
Veil of Darkness has an edge by being the only utility piece. Everything else is some sort of weapon or armor, but Veil is useful even if you are relying on your Characters to support rather than fight. I suppose Orb of Eternity is also a support option, but Res Orbs in general aren't great.
Yeah, at 35pts I don't think I'll be using many Res. Orbs, unless I'm really struggling to fill out those points.
As I don't think our HQs are particularly amazing beatsticks, if not the Veil I would go for either a ranged weapon or an armor type, leaning towards the former. Voltaic Staff is just a Gauss Cannon that your DLord or CCB can fire without -1 to hit, so that's good. Solar Staff is likely better, with more shots and a -1 Hit debuff. Abyssal is, imo, too situational and RNG reliant, though not terrible. Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is pretty bad unless your meta is nothing but hordes. .
Agreed on the Gauntlet, though even against hordes I doubt I'd bother. I thought the Abyssal Staff looked pretty decent. On average, it'll go off against most units in the game, and Mortal Wounds are pretty useful.
As far as the armor types go, I would rank them 4++ >= Sempiternal >= Timesplinter > 2+ > Nanoscarab. In my book, preventative is better than reactive, so while the healing from Nanoscarab is cool, if you die it doesn't do anything half the time. Invulns, boosted stats, and 5+++ are great. 2+ is nearly as good, but I think it does less overall unless you're facing lots of AP0 (which isn't the meta). Timesplinter or Nanoscarab might be the better choice if you're facing lots of MWs.
The only thing I'd disagree with is that I'd place Sempiternal Weave last on the list. Given that toughness is less effective in this edition and with so many multiple-wound weapons, I don't think +1T and +1W is particularly useful. I'd much rather have the Nanoscarabs.
The two Warscythes are fairly similar. Blood Scythe is better when facing more bodies, Voidreaper is better when facing tougher things. I personally don't think I'd pick a melee artifact most of the time. Edit: I might consider Blood Scythe if going full Novokh, to be fair. If your entire strategy is melee, it's quite good, though I don't think that's a viable build.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.
Red Corsair wrote: @Vpoid I didn't mean extreme prejudice the way your taking it mate. It's a colloquial term. It means your being hyper efficient and vigilant in your task.
Huh, I've never see it used/defined as anything but a decisively negative term. Fair enough.
Red Corsair wrote: Which then came off bizarre to me when you said you would take a destroyer lord just because.
Yeah, I put it in brackets because it would be a personal choice, rather than a competitive one, if you see what I mean.
Red Corsair wrote: Never assumed your mindset, I questioned your own words. Your responsible for whatever mindset your in, not me. just like I am for myself. No need to make things personal when they aren't.
I was referring to the 'prejudice' thing. I'd taken it as a personal attack because, as I said above, I wasn't familiar with the colloquial use. So I apologise for that.
BTW this is the second time now you have argued in circles with me about a unit, only to basically concede.
I'm not sure how exactly I conceded. Unless I'm mistaken, my position didn't change throughout our discussion.
Unless I just didn't express myself well initially?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
ArtyomTrityak wrote: So actually i'm picking between 3x20 warriors or 3x10 immortals. Those 3x20 warriors blobs looks unkillable.
Deceiver + veil teleports and opponent is facing 3x20 warriors immune to morale.
Isn't it great? 60 bodies on the field.
So opponent faces 60 warriors 9' away -2 AP + 6 Destroyers + Deceiver Turn 1.
In addition Repair barge advances and getting ready to repair all of them.
And 3x3 or 1x9 Tomb Blades getting objectives / killing other stuff.
i like your way of thinking! Add Illuminor Szeras and watch those Warrior blobs become even stronger.
The big, BIG problem with this is that you are relying só much on getting a 3 with the Deceiver's D3 Grand Illusion. Anything less and the whole plan shatters.
ArtyomTrityak wrote: So actually i'm picking between 3x20 warriors or 3x10 immortals. Those 3x20 warriors blobs looks unkillable.
Deceiver + veil teleports and opponent is facing 3x20 warriors immune to morale.
Isn't it great? 60 bodies on the field.
So opponent faces 60 warriors 9' away -2 AP + 6 Destroyers + Deceiver Turn 1.
In addition Repair barge advances and getting ready to repair all of them.
And 3x3 or 1x9 Tomb Blades getting objectives / killing other stuff.
i like your way of thinking! Add Illuminor Szeras and watch those Warrior blobs become even stronger.
The big, BIG problem with this is that you are relying só much on getting a 3 with the Deceiver's D3 Grand Illusion. Anything less and the whole plan shatters.
Actually i need only 2:
1. Deveiver + 2 blob of warriors
2. O/Lord/Cryptek with Veil of darkness + 1 blob of warriors. Cryptek gives +1 reanimation. Lord rerol 1s to wound, Overlord MWBDx2 (+1CP)
Unfortunately Illuminor Szeras is named character so can not use Veil of darkness.
3 is better because we can teleport character with them to make them morale immune.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/13 23:52:09
My self im thinking 2x20 warriors and 10 immortals, since the immortals are a better target for MWBD. Not sure if i should run a catacomb command barge with void reaper, or an overlord with veil of darkness
ThePie wrote: My self im thinking 2x20 warriors and 10 immortals, since the immortals are a better target for MWBD. Not sure if i should run a catacomb command barge with void reaper, or an overlord with veil of darkness
You can use both for 1CP. It make sense to run 2x20 warriors for grand illusion and 1x10 Immortals for Veil.
CCB as a Character sniper looks awesome.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 23:49:25
Damn this thread is going fast... I blink 2 times and 5 pages are added...
I have never really liked the Deceiver much. I've always found The Nightbringer much more usefull (and awesome looking).
Getting some Alfa strike units up the field in rapid fire can be a very tempting thing, but I am never a fan of splitting my forces up (or I'd have to build an entire DS/redeploy army) I think the killyness of our former black stargod will get you more kills in the long run I think. (especially since there are other ways to get 1 or 2 units up the field if they really need to be there).
With the new rules though, I am thinking is a Nightbringer/Novokh Wraith combo overkill? That is a Lot of points in one (hard to kill) basket though. Going for the normal Scarab bodypups is probably more efficient.
You could even pair them up with some Praetorians and Tomb blades/Cloaktek for some nice fast (probably too expensive) support for your troops holding the center.
I'll have to juggle some options when the points are finallised.
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
Honestly i think the normal Transcendent C'tan is better than the nightbringer, heck, you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent to get into optimal range and position to cast 2 powers straight away while you can bring a warrior blob to screen him
ThePie wrote: you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent
That's a double nope on that one. Veil only works on infantry (C'tan is a monster) and requires the unit to have a Dynasty keyword, which the C'tan also lacks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 00:15:04
ThePie wrote: you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent
That's a double nope on that one. Veil only works on infantry (C'tan is a monster) and requires the unit to have a Dynasty keyword, which the C'tan also lacks.
Ah, i missed the text that said C'tan shards can not have artifacts, shame.
ThePie wrote: you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent
That's a double nope on that one. Veil only works on infantry (C'tan is a monster) and requires the unit to have a Dynasty keyword, which the C'tan also lacks.
Ah, i missed the text that said C'tan shards can not have artifacts, shame.
Hah, yea. Can you imagine the Transcendant C'tan with the Nightmare Shroud? 2++ save.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Speaking of the Transcendant C'tan; what do you guys think? Pick one 'upgrade' from Fractured Personality, or take two random ones?
They are all solid, though 4 (12" advance) or 6 (no enemy cover saves for 12" from the C'tan) are kinda meh.
And then there's also the risk that you roll a double, and ending up with only one random upgrade!
You also can't command point re-roll this, since you roll for these upgrades before the first turn is taken.
If I would go for picking an upgrade, I'd say the 3++ or casting two powers are a no-brainer. Though re-roll to wound might come in handy as well if he needs to go and box a Primarch.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 00:36:51
ThePie wrote: you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent
That's a double nope on that one. Veil only works on infantry (C'tan is a monster) and requires the unit to have a Dynasty keyword, which the C'tan also lacks.
Ah, i missed the text that said C'tan shards can not have artifacts, shame.
Hah, yea. Can you imagine the Transcendant C'tan with the Nightmare Shroud? 2++ save.
One can dream haha. But yeah, then i agree that the Nightbringer is probably the superior option.
Myself im still debating if i should run a catacomb command barge or get an cheaper normal overlord so i can also run a spyder (i think the model is really sexy), being able to repair your vehicles a bit should probably make the spyder pay for himself quickly.
2 Powers hands down for me, he is a less then 10 wound character so the improved invuln while nice is less useful IMO.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So the CCB can clearly use the Veil right? Might be funny with the sniper warlord trait and catch some folks off guard.
NM it's infantry, I've been shoveling too much snow today.
Veil of Darkness has an edge by being the only utility piece. Everything else is some sort of weapon or armor, but Veil is useful even if you are relying on your Characters to support rather than fight. I suppose Orb of Eternity is also a support option, but Res Orbs in general aren't great.
Yeah, at 35pts I don't think I'll be using many Res. Orbs, unless I'm really struggling to fill out those points.
As I don't think our HQs are particularly amazing beatsticks, if not the Veil I would go for either a ranged weapon or an armor type, leaning towards the former. Voltaic Staff is just a Gauss Cannon that your DLord or CCB can fire without -1 to hit, so that's good. Solar Staff is likely better, with more shots and a -1 Hit debuff. Abyssal is, imo, too situational and RNG reliant, though not terrible. Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is pretty bad unless your meta is nothing but hordes. .
Agreed on the Gauntlet, though even against hordes I doubt I'd bother. I thought the Abyssal Staff looked pretty decent. On average, it'll go off against most units in the game, and Mortal Wounds are pretty useful.
As far as the armor types go, I would rank them 4++ >= Sempiternal >= Timesplinter > 2+ > Nanoscarab. In my book, preventative is better than reactive, so while the healing from Nanoscarab is cool, if you die it doesn't do anything half the time. Invulns, boosted stats, and 5+++ are great. 2+ is nearly as good, but I think it does less overall unless you're facing lots of AP0 (which isn't the meta). Timesplinter or Nanoscarab might be the better choice if you're facing lots of MWs.
The only thing I'd disagree with is that I'd place Sempiternal Weave last on the list. Given that toughness is less effective in this edition and with so many multiple-wound weapons, I don't think +1T and +1W is particularly useful. I'd much rather have the Nanoscarabs.
The two Warscythes are fairly similar. Blood Scythe is better when facing more bodies, Voidreaper is better when facing tougher things. I personally don't think I'd pick a melee artifact most of the time. Edit: I might consider Blood Scythe if going full Novokh, to be fair. If your entire strategy is melee, it's quite good, though I don't think that's a viable build.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.
Red Corsair wrote: @Vpoid I didn't mean extreme prejudice the way your taking it mate. It's a colloquial term. It means your being hyper efficient and vigilant in your task.
Huh, I've never see it used/defined as anything but a decisively negative term. Fair enough.
Red Corsair wrote: Which then came off bizarre to me when you said you would take a destroyer lord just because.
Yeah, I put it in brackets because it would be a personal choice, rather than a competitive one, if you see what I mean.
Red Corsair wrote: Never assumed your mindset, I questioned your own words. Your responsible for whatever mindset your in, not me. just like I am for myself. No need to make things personal when they aren't.
I was referring to the 'prejudice' thing. I'd taken it as a personal attack because, as I said above, I wasn't familiar with the colloquial use. So I apologise for that.
BTW this is the second time now you have argued in circles with me about a unit, only to basically concede.
I'm not sure how exactly I conceded. Unless I'm mistaken, my position didn't change throughout our discussion.
Unless I just didn't express myself well initially?
No worries. I think we both are in agreement but were talking right past eachother. Concede is the wrong term. I think initially you just didn't understand the point I was trying to make in regard to both Immotek and FO earlier. I wasn't suggesting they were auto takes or anything, just that they were good if you had a plan for them. I think I just wasn't very clear myself from the get go and assumed we were on the same footing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So crazy idea, but what if we spammed scarabs and C'tan lol. You can take two outriders and a supreme command and get 11 units of 3 scarabs, nightbringer, deceiver and 5 more transcendant c'tans.
6 CP's
Might be funny and more effective then it looks. Thats a lot of characters and because scarabs are small enough to hide, if you use the deceiver the place them in smart locations you could render the C'tan untargetable from the enemy perspective early on. Thats alot of C'tan to take on as well. You figure between the powers, exploding C'tan and Scarabs you can inflict a horendous amount of mortal wounds.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 01:24:10
Gonna respectfully disagree with you on the rolling for the C’tans Red. A 3++ is just way too good. Give them the 6” advance, wraiths to screen for them and some backfield objective holders to prevent deep striking from behind.
I’m thinking triple c’tan triple wraithwing with some canoptek cryptek support to let the wraiths get in some good RP rolls, backfield warriors or immortals to move up slowly with some scarabs to hold any backfield objectives permenantly. Advance 6” and hope for a t1 charge, advance the third unit 6” turn 2 and by turn 2 for sure you have 18 wraiths minus dead wraiths in combat with some good stuff, with the ability to fall back and charge other stuff the next turn. I actually like it a lot. Probably not super competitive but get hot on some wraith invulns and who knows what can happen?
Also can the deceiver reposition wraiths? Because if so....
Best of all, 7 CP feels like plenty for a wraithwing army (1 batallion, 1 outrider)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 01:42:41
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote: So is everyone still really against Warriors? I've been building up a 1500pts list for an upcoming local tournament and it includes a couple Warrior units.
Also, do we know how the Voidreaper functions? Is it a free replacement for the Warscythe? Didn't see it mentioned in the points list.
I wouldn't say we are against warriors, there is certainly a place for them, but generally they are overshadowed by immortals. They are one of the few units in the necron army vulnerable to morale, some of the ten mans can lose a unit here or there, but a 20 man blob can lose just over half their models and get wiped out.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
I haven't looked through this thread so probably missed some synergies etc. Also the video is not focused on tactics, but more on running through the changes and giving my opinion - but I guess this thread is the only relevant place to post, in the absence of a Necron sub-forum.
So here’s my list idea. Don’t think it’s super competitive but man I love canopteks. Had an almost all canoptek army until giving the last cryptek a cloak put me 3 points over 2k :(
If I wanted to make it more competitive I would probably drop the stalkers and make everything nephrek with a transcendent c’tan just to make you go through all wraiths
Spoiler:
Novokh Vanguard
Cryptek w/staff of light
Tomb Stalker
Tomb Stalker
Deceiver
Nephrekh Outrider
Cryptek w/canoptek cloak, staff of light
Nightbringer
6 wraiths
6 wraiths
6 wraiths
3 scarabs
3 scarabs
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/15 23:42:04
If you're going to post lists here, can you please stick them under spoilers? [This thread has only been up a short time and is already pretty long. Like someone already said, you come back a few hours later and it's added two extra pages. Multiple people posting lists is just going to make each page unnecessarily longer to scroll through for people who are here for the tactics/new codex info.]
Anyway, back to tactics discussion.
I really want to love Deathmarks again, but I'm struggling to see the best code and strategems for them. Any suggestions?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 03:17:18
Deathmarks only really use mephrit well when intercepting or when they leave a nice juicy character within 3" of their front line, everything else doesn't really ever come into play
since ctan powers are now amazing for sniping characters, the best way to use deathmarks is as a way to block further units from deepstrike charging your gun lines by killing some and denying the area the opponent was planning on using for some more drops.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 03:31:37
ThePie wrote: you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent
That's a double nope on that one. Veil only works on infantry (C'tan is a monster) and requires the unit to have a Dynasty keyword, which the C'tan also lacks.
Ah, i missed the text that said C'tan shards can not have artifacts, shame.
Hah, yea. Can you imagine the Transcendant C'tan with the Nightmare Shroud? 2++ save.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Speaking of the Transcendant C'tan; what do you guys think? Pick one 'upgrade' from Fractured Personality, or take two random ones?
They are all solid, though 4 (12" advance) or 6 (no enemy cover saves for 12" from the C'tan) are kinda meh.
And then there's also the risk that you roll a double, and ending up with only one random upgrade!
You also can't command point re-roll this, since you roll for these upgrades before the first turn is taken.
If I would go for picking an upgrade, I'd say the 3++ or casting two powers are a no-brainer. Though re-roll to wound might come in handy as well if he needs to go and box a Primarch.
I would and will always roll for 2 powers. There is a stratagem for 1 CP that let's you change one out if you don't like it. The question is if you roll doubles would that just mean you have the same one twice? If so that's not a big deal, just keep one and change the other. Or does it mean you simply just get one power? I am inclined to think you get the same ability twice which means you can change one to something different and keep the other one.
Well, that -1 to Quantum Shielding rolls is pretty damn good. The tried and true way to beat it was Low Damage, and now its unkillable that way. Yikes!
