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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Agreed, I wouldn't put money on him being biased (but I think there could be reason, only on the most spiteful of levels however), but he most certainly wasn't accurate.

Refs from leagues other than top tier tend to perform.... let's say erratically.

And since refs at the WC need to fill quotas from all confederations there's bound to be wild variations in ref quality.

There were definitely at least 2 missed corner kicks for England that weren't called, to say nothing of the other violations that took place. With the exception of this match I've mostly been okay with the refing this year, and have agreed with nearly all the reversed calls that resulted from VAR. I think England were hard done by the ref today, but I still think the (barely) better team won that match. I expect Kane will have some sleepless nights from that wonderful missed opportunity he had. I hope the team stays positive going forward, they went much farther than anyone expected and honestly it's the best English squad I've seen since I started watching these competitions 20 years ago. They're all still pretty young, and Southgate is clearly doing something right.

Welp. Go France!

 Power Elephant wrote:
If I were a corrupt organisation looking to get money, I wouldn't cater to the country with 4 million people as opposed to the one with 53.

Remind me who did the Russians want to win that match? Its a lot nicer to think your team was knocked out by a finalist than by a semi finalist.

How about Spainish or French?

What about the Scottish ffs?

They aren't catering just to Croatia only, use your brain.

The decisions second half of the match and in extra time were a disgrace, obviously so.

Also you forget the corner that should have been given to Croatia when a shot came off walkers boot, it's not bias, or bad luck it's football, also England had 1 shot on target, compared to Croatia's many.
They were a far superior team, England are young and inexperienced but will get better, but this was the 1st high quality team they faced and were found wanting.
I hope Croatia win the final too.

I also love that you think the Scots banded together to bribe a ref, that's brilliant! That's what the guy with bucket was collecting for.

Don't be bitter accept your team exceeded pre tournament predictions and is clearly going to do better in the future.

I think the bottom line is the favourable draw meant England got further than we would have expected meaning we went out in the Semi's rather than the Quarters or the First Round; I don't think it is indicative of the second coming of the '66 world cup winning team, regardless of what the media think. Let's be clear, Columbia, especially without James Rodriguez, are not a good team and we very nearly contrived to throw that one away. Croatia are a good team and we came up short. It's all very well talking of 4 years time and how that might be a better shot because experience and maturity etc but the bottom line is, the opportunity was now, not some hypothetical point in the future at a world cup we haven't even qualified for yet. A lot can happen in 4 years. The clear blue sky was now; this opportunity may never come again and the stark reality is, England bottled it. We could have and should have been 2 or 3 goals up on Croatia and for all the talk of Harry Kane being world class, he was fairly ineffectual in the last 2 games. Same with Alli. Very Spurs-y in fact; glorious defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.

Ultimately, as soon as we came up against a decent team, we came up short. We should be proud, of course, and grateful for a happy summer for a change but let's not blind ourselves to the fact it was a pretty average England team.

Do the Spanish or French care about England, greatly? About the only country I can think of that actually cares enough about the England football team is Scotland, and none of us were there.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Do the Spanish or French care about England, greatly? About the only country I can think of that actually cares enough about the England football team is Scotland, and none of us were there.

They do not. England, especially the media, likes to portray England as the "rivals" of countries like Germany.

Germany, on the other hand, has a rivalry with the Netherlands and Italy. England's "rivalry" with Germany is one-sided.

Exactly. Any claim that there’s a conspiracy to prevent England winning the World Cup ignores that fact that no-one gives a gak.

Again, they must be kicking themselves for not making those shots stick in the first half.

England got to the semi-finals partly because they were in an easy group, and because a lot of the strong teams got knocked out early.

That said, before the tournament began, the pundits said if England could win one knockout match it would be a good performance.

The simple fact is that the England team has room for improvement.

Their passing was rather inaccurate and they often resorted to kicking the ball back to the goalie instead of trying to move it forwards.

These are not issues with basic talent, they are skills and tactics that can be improved.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
England got to the semi-finals partly because they were in an easy group, and because a lot of the strong teams got knocked out early.

That said, before the tournament began, the pundits said if England could win one knockout match it would be a good performance.

The simple fact is that the England team has room for improvement.

Their passing was rather inaccurate and they often resorted to kicking the ball back to the goalie instead of trying to move it forwards.

These are not issues with basic talent, they are skills and tactics that can be improved.

Not sure about the easy group - I think alot of the "strong teams" just were not strong however we should cleebrate what they did and how they did it - they mostly played good football.

Lets not be like that cheat and drug addict Maradonna and whine after the fact.

I think they could have beaten Croatia if they had got that second goal in the 1st half but All credit to Croatia - they dug in and where the better team overlal whcih was reflected din the score. The only thing I wish the VR thing did was catch the divers.

I think either team would have had a good chance against France who were unimpresive against Belguim.

I do agree about the back passing to the keeper - watchinig with my Dad and both of us kept saying - "no not backwards" and it nearly set up goals for the oppoenents on a coupel of occassions - however it was great to see them at least playign a propper passing game throughout the match and having good spirit.

The Worst World cup I have seen was the South Africa one where it appeared that all the big stars in the england team didn;t give a gak about it. This was nothing like that.

Go croatia! Would be first for them and france play is booooring. Maybe effective but darn it's boring to watch.

For all the talk of having an easy run, you've still got to put the shift in on your part.

I didn't expect us to win 6-1 against Panama when in the space of four years we couldn't beat Costa Rica and Iceland despite thinking they were going to be easy points. Colombia could have been problematic with Rodriguez but they still had quality.

Does this team need improvement? Yes, evidently, a lot of our goals came from set pieces because we lack creativity in midfield, in addition to poor decision making. Does Southgate need to improve? Yeah. I cringed everytime Dier went on to protect a 1-0 lead when I would have rather had Vardy or Rashford for pace up and go for the kill with a fast counter.

But this team has done better than the supposed Golden Age of Ferdinand, Scholes and like. Disappointed in how we lost, falling asleep or one or two mistakes that good teams, like Croatia, punish you for. But I'm still proud, because Southgate has made me enjoy watching England again.

They leave with heads held high. That's all I hoped for at the start. That the players and the manager in particular have created an engagement between fans and team is a bonus. That there is optimism for the future - and none of it misplaced - was unthinkable this time last year.

Can anyone say with any honesty that things would be this way if Allerdyce was still in charge? Him getting caught out was the best thing to happen to English football in decades.

The failings of the last game comes down to the natural style of play of a few players. Henderson doesn't know how to pass forward and may be the weakest link in the team (his sole purpose appears to be filling in for Tripier when he advances up the wing). Stirling may be one of the best players in the world between 18-yard boxes, but one-on-one with a keeper he is totally ineffectual.

The Croatian team was asking to be picked apart by a striker that would run past them and beat any keeper. Vardy should have been on from the start of the second half - especially as England started kicking the ball long from Pickford at every opportunity, instead of playing it from the back.

He doesn't play Southgate's way, which is why he was nowhere in the Belgium game, but that he can play radically different from Kane, Rashford and Stirling provides an alternative way of playing out. That Southgate wasn't confident enough to step away from the master plan was his big miss-step of the whole tournament.

My thoughts from about the second round on-wards was France or Belgium, so I'll stick with it. Vive la France!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
But I'm still proud, because Southgate has made me enjoy watching England again.

Totally agreed. After years of indifference I'm enjoying watching them. They may never win a trophy, but who cares? It's fun to watch them.

Watching the absolute class from Croatia supporters, I'd like to see them beat France. And others have said, France is boring.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I expect Kane will have some sleepless nights from that wonderful missed opportunity he had.

Finally someone who also thinks that, I was like "2-0, bam! Game is locked, good luck getting back from that..." And he missed twice on that occassion...

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I hope the team stays positive going forward, they went much farther than anyone expected and honestly it's the best English squad I've seen since I started watching these competitions 20 years ago. They're all still pretty young, and Southgate is clearly doing something right.

+1
I think few had high expectations for Southgate's team, it's good to see England stepping up their game...

 feeder wrote:
Watching the absolute class from Croatia supporters, I'd like to see them beat France. And others have said, France is boring.

France only has redeeming qualities up front with Griezmann and that beast Mbappé.

Other than that it's a thuggish team. I can't see any neutral not rooting for Croatia.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Power Elephant wrote:
If I were a corrupt organisation looking to get money, I wouldn't cater to the country with 4 million people as opposed to the one with 53.

Remind me who did the Russians want to win that match? Its a lot nicer to think your team was knocked out by a finalist than by a semi finalist.

How about Spainish or French?

What about the Scottish ffs?

They aren't catering just to Croatia only, use your brain.

The decisions second half of the match and in extra time were a disgrace, obviously so.

Russia, France, and Spain really don't care about England's footballing successes unless they're playing them. So that leaves FIFA and Russia conspiring to keep England out so that Scots can have some laughs on a Wednesday night?

For someone that told me that the self-obsession of English commentators and pundits was in my head, this is pretty fantastical. Personally I think England fell apart in the second half because someone dropped the mind-melting bomb that Croatia have both EU membership and blue passports.


Obviously, like the average Scot, I'm pleased that England are out. Disappointed for the team, and for Southgate, both of whom have conducted themselves with class throughout and, refreshingly, come across like a fundamentally decent bunch, but it means the final will be fun to watch, rather than a tedious exercise in listening to people that apparently don't know any third person pronouns. It'll still be awash with lengthy discussions about how England would have gotten on against the France performance we see on Sunday.


It's been a really fun world cup for an (almost) neutral. Sadly, I don't think we'll see another exciting upset in the final, but fingers crossed for Croatia, anyway.

nfe wrote:
Personally I think England fell apart in the second half because someone dropped the mind-melting bomb that Croatia have both EU membership and blue passports.

Care to explain this to a non-English speaking native? :-)

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

nfe wrote:
Personally I think England fell apart in the second half because someone dropped the mind-melting bomb that Croatia have both EU membership and blue passports.

Care to explain this to a non-English speaking native? :-)

One of the recurrent topics that comes up in the pro-Brexit media is how great it'll be when we leave the EU because we'll be able to have blue passports again, like we did in the 70s.

The Finals coming tomorrow!
It's France VS Croatia

Who do you want to win the Russia 2018 Worldcup?

Me.. France.

No bronze for England. Belgium beat them again.

nfe wrote:
Russia, France, and Spain really don't care about England's footballing successes unless they're playing them. So that leaves FIFA and Russia conspiring to keep England out so that Scots can have some laughs on a Wednesday night?

For someone that told me that the self-obsession of English commentators and pundits was in my head, this is pretty fantastical. Personally I think England fell apart in the second half because someone dropped the mind-melting bomb that Croatia have both EU membership and blue passports.


Obviously, like the average Scot, I'm pleased that England are out. Disappointed for the team, and for Southgate, both of whom have conducted themselves with class throughout and, refreshingly, come across like a fundamentally decent bunch, but it means the final will be fun to watch, rather than a tedious exercise in listening to people that apparently don't know any third person pronouns. It'll still be awash with lengthy discussions about how England would have gotten on against the France performance we see on Sunday.


It's been a really fun world cup for an (almost) neutral. Sadly, I don't think we'll see another exciting upset in the final, but fingers crossed for Croatia, anyway.

Sorry, for you and the other that quoted me, do you mind showing where I mentioned anything about a formal conspiracy between France, Russia, Spain and Scotland? You need to read what I typed, rather than what you think I typed.

My point is thus - there is a prevalence on the international scene for many countries, particularly European and even more so British, to try and embarrass the English. They will take any opportunity they can possibly get. There is also the same prevalence to try and embarrass Britain, you've only got to look at the European song contest if you want an idea of how popular Britain is in the international community, let alone Europe (as an institution).

The quotation I was responding to prior that you jumped on the back of, misunderstood what I was saying (surprise surprise) and assumed I believed the ref/Fifa have some pro Croatia agenda and claimed this was stupid because Croatia is such a small country. Which is not what I was saying. What I was saying is that virtually EVERY OTHER COUNTRY APART FROM ENGLAND wanted England out on Wednesday. Fifa were catering to the masses. What's more embarrassing is the fact that even our peers on the same fething island can't support us. That they are so pathetic and petty, that they would rather a team they have absolutely no link with beat a team that is effectively a neighbour. You should be embarrassed about the bolded part of your quotation above, that you can't support England when your own team is out really highlights how truly petty you are. If Scotland were still in I can guarantee that the English would support them.

This last game against Belgium really highlighted our deficiencies - not enough running off the ball, poor in defence, too slow (going forward and back) and a hesitation in the final third. These are things that will hopefully come with age and are at least obvious things to be fixed. The team is not good as it is now, it's mediocre at best. There isn't too much to do to take the team to a World class level though and at least the players play as a team, these are positives to take from the tournament moving forward. Given the quality of Belgium, if we had taken the many chances we had today we could have been 3 or 4 up. Not too shabby, considering.

So England lost again.
I guess now it's the Brussels EU conspiracy because of brexit right?

On serious note, now I wonder if England team was good at all.
After the first croatian goal they just numbed.
So many possibilities...

It must be painful to watch games like these.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

nfe wrote:
Russia, France, and Spain really don't care about England's footballing successes unless they're playing them. So that leaves FIFA and Russia conspiring to keep England out so that Scots can have some laughs on a Wednesday night?

For someone that told me that the self-obsession of English commentators and pundits was in my head, this is pretty fantastical. Personally I think England fell apart in the second half because someone dropped the mind-melting bomb that Croatia have both EU membership and blue passports.


Obviously, like the average Scot, I'm pleased that England are out. Disappointed for the team, and for Southgate, both of whom have conducted themselves with class throughout and, refreshingly, come across like a fundamentally decent bunch, but it means the final will be fun to watch, rather than a tedious exercise in listening to people that apparently don't know any third person pronouns. It'll still be awash with lengthy discussions about how England would have gotten on against the France performance we see on Sunday.


It's been a really fun world cup for an (almost) neutral. Sadly, I don't think we'll see another exciting upset in the final, but fingers crossed for Croatia, anyway.

Sorry, for you and the other that quoted me, do you mind showing where I mentioned anything about a formal conspiracy between France, Russia, Spain and Scotland? You need to read what I typed, rather than what you think I typed.

My point is thus - there is a prevalence on the international scene for many countries, particularly European and even more so British, to try and embarrass the English. They will take any opportunity they can possibly get. There is also the same prevalence to try and embarrass Britain, you've only got to look at the European song contest if you want an idea of how popular Britain is in the international community, let alone Europe (as an institution).

The quotation I was responding to prior that you jumped on the back of, misunderstood what I was saying (surprise surprise) and assumed I believed the ref/Fifa have some pro Croatia agenda and claimed this was stupid because Croatia is such a small country. Which is not what I was saying. What I was saying is that virtually EVERY OTHER COUNTRY APART FROM ENGLAND wanted England out on Wednesday. Fifa were catering to the masses.

If you're not talking about any conspiring, can you clarify this, please?

It might also be worth having a think about why every other nation wants England to lose at pretty much everything. In all seriousness, why do you think that might be?

What's more embarrassing is the fact that even our peers on the same fething island can't support us. That they are so pathetic and petty, that they would rather a team they have absolutely no link with beat a team that is effectively a neighbour. You should be embarrassed about the bolded part of your quotation above, that you can't support England when your own team is out really highlights how truly petty you are. If Scotland were still in I can guarantee that the English would support them.

This misses two things:

A) Ruling nations frequently support subservient ones in a paternalistic sense. It's not difficult to understand why it isn't reciprocated.
B) England are Scotland's main sporting rivals. Do you expect Man City and Man U fans to lend their support to the others in the CL when their side is out?

It's a one-way rivalry at best, to be honest.

 filbert wrote:
It's a one-way rivalry at best, to be honest.

Totally, but that's besides the point. England's football rivalry with Germany is the same. Germans don't care. And it's basically-everything rivalry with France. Who don't care either. It's still entirely unsurprising that those rivalries result in a lack of support for the other side against third parties.

So glad to see England are out (as always)
Now I can stop listening to neighbours chanting and all these stupid flags everywhere.

nfe wrote:

 filbert wrote:
It's a one-way rivalry at best, to be honest.

Totally, but that's besides the point. England's football rivalry with Germany is the same. Germans don't care. And it's basically-everything rivalry with France. Who don't care either. It's still entirely unsurprising that those rivalries result in a lack of support for the other side against third parties.

Sure but you gave City/Utd as an example and that simply isn't the case with England/Scotland.

In the few times Scotland have been in major tournaments in my lifetime, I have cheered them just as enthusiastically as England, same with Wales, same even with ROI to a lesser extent. I want all the home nations to do well over and above anyone else. I just find it a little sad that the Scottish (and it seems to be exclusively the Scottish - not really the Welsh) go out of their way to really emphasize how much they want anyone other than England to win; we have seen plenty of examples of it in this same thread. I have to say, I don't understand that mentality.

But yes, you are correct, it is along the same lines as England's rivalry with Germany - we don't want the Germans to win, they couldn't give a toss if we do or not. However, I don't find the urge to post threads about how much I want Germany to lose on here or on Facebook threads in the same manner that my Scottish friends do though. it seems to be a particular preserve of the Scottish football fan to be as much anti-England as they are pro-Scotland when it comes to football.