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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Honestly at this point it’s not even a question for me that iconclast is the better option. For a couple reasons.

-Vows are much better than anything you get from infernal. As I expected vow of beast-slayer has been all star stratagem. Might the 3rd best stratagem behind trail of destruction and rotate ion shields. The other 2 vows are also situationally good as well. I can’t think of the last competitive game I played where I didn’t use at least 1 vow. Infernal stratagems meanwhile all cost as much or more CP than iconclast ones (for reasons) and generally suck. Regaining wounds is the best 1, but feels like it could have costed 1 CP. Getting back up is bad for 3 CP when you can’t go back to full bracket, and warp rift may as well not exist post FAQ nerf.

-the mortal wounds you take from warp surging is not as trivial as everyone thought. There is a big difference between taking 1 mortal wound and D3 mortal wounds. Ask Grey knight players how they feel about their smite vs everyone else’s. For this reason Comparing this trait to Riptide nova-charging was a bad idea (in addition to riptides getting not caring about wounds as much in general due to drone protection). When the book first came out I was convinced the infernal trait was better than Iconoclast’s one, now I’m thinking they are about on par with each-other
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Interesting I would have thought the ability to deny first strike and have a second shot at damage would be stronger.

Does that change if only taking an auxiliary SH detachment?
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





no doubt, iconoclast is better overall, im running a IK with 2 RFBC and vow of beastslayer and it's absolutely amazing, with trail of destruction and, if needed warpsight elm, wreak havocs.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 blackmage wrote:
no doubt, iconoclast is better overall, im running a IK with 2 RFBC and vow of beastslayer and it's absolutely amazing, with trail of destruction and, if needed warpsight elm, wreak havocs.


This, my dude, is the exact combo I have been planning on trying!

 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





tried against eldar flyers and Tau, in both cases was the Ik who give me the edge (if you start 1st then is a plus )

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Latest Wrack in the Pits





I've been running the masque of slaanesh as one of the HQ in my allied Daemon battalion. She's handy as a gem caddie (to counter smash captain's, melee knights, mortarion etc). But she also allows you to buff multiple knights weapon skill against a single target each fight phase (she makes a single enemy unit +1 to hit). This has made the infernal stratagem for regaining wounds much more effective/reliable (I mostly use it when a knight is still on its top profile, it's pretty terrible when your down a bracket or two).

On another note I think boosting a battle cannon to S9 is very risky, as you take the mortal wounds and declare that you are using Daemonic Surge before you know how many shots you will roll. So you can easily end up taking mortal wounds only to buff a handful of shots.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Mushkilla wrote:
I've been running the masque of slaanesh as one of the HQ in my allied Daemon battalion. She's handy as a gem caddie (to counter smash captain's, melee knights, mortarion etc). But she also allows you to buff multiple knights weapon skill against a single target each fight phase (she makes a single enemy unit +1 to hit). This has made the infernal stratagem for regaining wounds much more effective/reliable (I mostly use it when a knight is still on its top profile, it's pretty terrible when your down a bracket or two).

On another note I think boosting a battle cannon to S9 is very risky, as you take the mortal wounds and declare that you are using Daemonic Surge before you know how many shots you will roll. So you can easily end up taking mortal wounds only to buff a handful of shots.


I think you might be misusing the masque. She’s a special character so you can’t put the the gem on her. Also I believe the +1 to hit only works on Slaanesh demons.

Personally I’ve been using the contorted Epitome as my gem Cadie. More expensive than the masque but does a lot of useful things like deny annoying psychic powers, cast spells, trap things and CC, and kill certain things.
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





mask cant carry the gem but the +1 to hit a single unit works, not only Sl demons benefit from it

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Salt donkey wrote:

I think you might be misusing the masque. She’s a special character so you can’t put the the gem on her. Also I believe the +1 to hit only works on Slaanesh demons.

Personally I’ve been using the contorted Epitome as my gem Cadie. More expensive than the masque but does a lot of useful things like deny annoying psychic powers, cast spells, trap things and CC, and kill certain things.


Ahh nice catch with the gem. I forgot special characters can't get relics even from stratagems. The +1 to hit does work though as its a debuff on the enemy unit.

I'm considering the epitome too, but have yet to try it out.


 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





epithome is one of best demon units.

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Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Whats everyones favoite dreadblade combo?

If yoire a melee knight, adding a pact and taking warp rage is a fair tradeoff.

A Dakka Knight Castellan can probably survive with warp fugue.

Then forsaken?
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





usually for me forasaken+volatile reactor or warp fugue, pact is very variable depend by list you face

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/14 21:00:14


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On the dual RFBC whats the reasoning behind 2 of these over 1 RFBC plus a thermal cannon and stormspear rp?
The latter has less variance (3 + d6 shots) higher damage potential higher strength and costs only 8 pts more.

Anyway I'm getting ready to build my first CK and that loadout has me intrigued.

The main reason I can see for dual RFBC is the massive range giving me freedom to deploy out of part of the enemy's ranged weaponry. This does seem particularly strong if using CA 2018 scenarios with full army deployment and much less useful in alternating unit deployments.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




dominuschao wrote:
On the dual RFBC whats the reasoning behind 2 of these over 1 RFBC plus a thermal cannon and stormspear rp?
The latter has less variance (3 + d6 shots) higher damage potential higher strength and costs only 8 pts more.

Anyway I'm getting ready to build my first CK and that loadout has me intrigued.

The main reason I can see for dual RFBC is the massive range giving me freedom to deploy out of part of the enemy's ranged weaponry. This does seem particularly strong if using CA 2018 scenarios with full army deployment and much less useful in alternating unit deployments.


You answered your own question, the range.
   
Made in fi
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot





I bought a knight crusader kit to accompany my rampager/desecrator and two wardogs with autocannons.

I want to do something more competitive to travel to our capital LGS to play some games.

Now I want to build an army with my current minis.

Despoiler dual RFBC
Rampager
2x wardogs with autocannons

My chaos space marines are Red corsairs.. so I will bring atleast 3x 5man chaos marines along with two HQ and something to fill the points. My HQ options are LD, Lord with hammer & plasma pistol, jump sorceror, Huron and dark apostle.

My initial idea was to skip despoilers carapace weapon and throw two venom crawlers to join LD and Rampager for cc threat and throw couple RCC to marines.. and as 2nd HQ choice would be warp time & death hex jump sorceror. think this is solid or something else from RC arsenal better. i got havocs and tons of marines and ofcourse oblits. So there is the big blov of more where they came from, but I was thinking leaving the CP for knights.

Anyone playing similar knights accompanied with chaos marines?

Hope I made my quite open idea and guestion nuff understandable
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





before actual list i played 2LoD in red corsair battalion and 3 despoilers, 2 shooty and one CaC

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So if:

LD
Sorc with JP

3x csm

Despoiler
Rampager
Wardogs

Are there anyway..

I need to choose from..

Desp loadout of dual RFBC
2x venom crawler
All Csm squads get RCC

Vs.

Desp loaded with thermal and AGC
3x oblits

Does this help the answer.. and one if I take the long ranged route with RFBC should I just max out on damage output with carapace weapon and skip the chaincannons
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





this is what i played
Spoiler:



++ Super-Heavy Detachment +6CP (Chaos - Chaos Knights) [75 PL, -1CP, 1,360pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Corrupted Heirlooms [-1CP]: One model

+ Lord of War +

Knight Despoiler [25 PL, 487pts]: Heavy stubber, Iconoclast Household, Ironstorm Missile Pod
. Rapid-fire battle cannon and heavy stubber: Heavy stubber, Rapid-fire battle cannon
. Rapid-fire battle cannon and heavy stubber: Heavy stubber, Rapid-fire battle cannon

Knight Despoiler [25 PL, 501pts]: Heavy stubber, Iconoclast Household, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Warlord
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer

Knight Despoiler [25 PL, 372pts]: Dreadblade, Heavy stubber, Iconoclast Household, Reaper chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [37 PL, 1CP, 635pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Field Commander [-1CP]

Legion [3CP]: Red Corsairs

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Soulforged Pack

+ HQ +

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 160pts]: Autocannon, Mark of Slaanesh, Mecha-serpents
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 160pts]: Autocannon, Mark of Slaanesh, Master of the Soulforges
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

Sorcerer with Jump Pack [7 PL, 120pts]: Bolt pistol, Delightful Agonies, Force stave, Mark of Slaanesh, Warlord, Warp Lord, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 65pts]: Mark of Khorne
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 65pts]: Mark of Khorne
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 65pts]: Mark of Khorne
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun

++ Total: [112 PL, 1,995pts] ++



This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/08/15 19:26:30


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Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





If you're only gonna bring a solo Knight, would Dreadblade be a good option to make up for missing Household traits? Or is it better to take the loss and not risk Damnations.
   
Made in fi
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot





Regards to above conversation..

I'm thinking:

Red corsairs batallion

Lord discordant + MoS + intoxicating elixir
Sorcerer with jump pack + MoT + Eye of Tzeenzch + death hex + warp time

3x 5man chaos space marines

3x Obliterators + MoS
Venomcrawler

Chaos knight super heavy detachment

Rampager + warlord (Eager for the kill)
Despoiler + 2x RFBC + twin icarus autocannon + helm of warpsight
Wardog + autocannons

2000p 14CP.

What do you think? Despoiler and wardog make a gunline as far back as possible to benefit from superior range. Screened by chaos marines. LD, venomcrawler and Rampager try the 1st turn charge if going first seems likely. Sorceror starts on table for warptiming LD on T1 or if going second is more likely drops for death hex on later turns..

Something to try out?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/16 14:51:39


 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User





I'm confused about how Characters and relics work in this book.

When you create a Chaos Knight detachment, you may make one of your Knights a Character. If you want to make a Knight your Warlord, you must choose a Character. If you wish to utilize your one free relic (and who wouldn't?), you must give it to a Character.

My current list is four Knights organized into a single Chaos Knights Super-heavy detachment. By RAW, the only option I'm aware of, with this particular list, if I want to use the free relic, is to make one of the Knights a Character (which makes sense) and then make that Knight the Warlord (again, no issue) and then give the free relic to that same Knight (that bit's not ideal). I don't want to give my Warlord the relic. I want the relic, the gauntlet or the Khornate Target do-hickey, on my dual CC-weapon Knight that's booking it up the field. I don't want that particular dude to be my Warlord, he's definitely going to die.

What am I missing? A speedy reply would be fantastic, I have a large event this weekend.
   
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

The Relic and Warlord strats give a Knight the Character Keyword.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User





 JNAProductions wrote:
The Relic and Warlord strats give a Knight the Character Keyword.


Yes, I know they do.

Are you suggesting I use the Warlord strat to give a Knight Character so I can use my free relic (on a Knight that isn't my true Warlord)? Is that my only option, running pure Chaos Knights?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/16 18:59:13


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Thats what they are saying.
Only characters get relics, in any book (that I can think of).
In CK case only 1 character status is free so ya your stuck with spending a cp or not getting a relic.

On the bright side you can make this decision before each game so theres that..
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut





Hi Guys, how come no one uses the full thermal cannon knight and only the rotor cannon? The thermal comboed with reroll to hit and 1 to wound from the strats seems really strong to me, also, it can still kill elite stomping and thermal kills what kills him, which are vehicles. It s cheaper as well.
   
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Many use the double rfbc version, more versatile with vow+re roll to hit is strong as well

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For those that’ve built them, how interchangeable are the bits between the Desecrator and regular kit?

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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Yorkshire

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For those that’ve built them, how interchangeable are the bits between the Desecrator and regular kit?


Completely interchangeable, only thing you have to watch out for is the spikes on the top of the hull that block carapace weapons. You can just magazine or glue them in a different place to allow you to add the carapace weapons to the desecrator.

Also the laser destroyer weapon body fits another rfbc or agc barrel with a bit of filing.

I use the lock and key method for making all the arms interchangeable. Just file down each side of the elbow joint, one into a 'key' the other into a lock then you van swap weapons without the need for magnets.
   
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Council of 13 Runner Up






Cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone else contacted GW to ask for the Gatling Cannon sprue to be released separately?

I mean, even if it’s £25 or so, it’s still cheaper than buying a whole new Knight just for some Dakka!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/24 19:52:45


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Kinda tempted to run 5 Knight Rampager.

Nice and simple army. Deploy, bomb it up the board, smash everything in my path.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
 
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