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So, now that I've had about two weeks with the new GK codex I think my initial impressions have worn off and I have had enough time to form informed opinions (or so I hope) on this new codex, and despite my initial excitement I have been left with a feeling I can only describe as "what the hell?". This codex is terrible, and not necessarily in the "It breaks the Game" sort of way. It may or may not break the game, I refuse to have an opinion till it is out for more than two weeks, but in the mean-time I find myself aggravated; I spent thirty dollars on this piece of garbage. Why do I think it is a piece of garbage? Let's take a look at this book.

There is a sizable chunk of fluff in this book, and a lot of it newly written. For an army that has been around since (Rogue Trader?) was it really necessary to include that much new stuff that actively retconed or simply ignored the old stuff? And even if you aren't nostalgic like me and morn the loss of the old, who out there is really happy with the feel of the new stuff. The frelling novel that they wrote about Drago feels like it was written by a 12 year old who wanted his HQ to be better than Marneus Calgar, but had problems doing so because he just made him up and had no occurrence of him in the 40k storyline so he made him a bad ass no one could know about. Thank God they didn't try to retcon the entire 40k storyline to fit Drago in. Most of the fluff feels like it was written by that same 12 year old to describe why his army was so much more awesome than anything else. Not that this is a new occurrence in the production of army books, but this book takes it to a whole new level. Also, two words, Nemesis Dreadknights. Really? Is this really the direction this army needed to go?

As far as the rules go, I'm not going to discuss the content and the effect they will have on the meta game. What bothers me about the rules is they couldn't be bothered to make them work within the established framework of the game. Dreadknights with dreadnought close combat weapons, No independent character on Crowe (I'm inclined to believe it's an omission, not an attempt to make the character worthless), Psychic pilot, Preferred enemy Deamons (What does that even mean?), and Personal teleporters on Monstrous creatures, to name a few items that need some "clearing up". Did they even read this thing after it was written, or did they rush it to the printer to get it sold as quickly as possible?

I'm honestly disappointed. Am I completely off base?

Also, anyone else out there with the old metal models aggravated about how they almost look like the new plastics, but with better looking storm bolters? Really, these new models are cool and suck all at once, which is a shame because GW was putting out some incredible stuff recently.

Elnicko5 wrote:
Also, anyone else out there with the old metal models aggravated about how they almost look like the new plastics, but with better looking storm bolters? Really, these new models are cool and suck all at once, which is a shame because GW was putting out some incredible stuff recently.

I agreed mostly up until here. Say what you will about the new PAGK (never liked them anyway, honestly) and the Dreadknight (let's face it, the design is just as ugly as the fluff), but the new Terminators are amazing. They don't look too different from the old metal Terminators, but then again, the old metal GKT are some of the best models GW's ever produced.

I was speaking mostly about the new PAGK, probability should have specified. I haven't bought a new termie box, so I'm not sure how I feel about them.

Preferred enemy Daemons is a rule against Daemons but I agree with all other things mentioned in your post , Dredknights look like freaking Transformers while many of the models are horrible compared to the older ones. The Fluff is vile and could of been done better by most or any of the Dakka members than the crap GW team , Draigo is a foul mistake that will curse GW as a another terrible character.

Yes, I wish my Sisters had that kind of quality.

Meeh... Haven't had a chance to check it out just yet, but... GW really had me with their lil' cyber-monkey...

I almost cried!

Considering the dozens of Mat Ward hate threads that have since been closed down on account of being annoying, I'd say yes. Personally I don't mind as the codex seems mostly fine to me.

Preferred Enemy: Daemons means that when they fight models with the Daemon unit type, they use the preferred enemy rule. That means they reroll all misses.

I'm not wowed by the plastics but I'm not exactly disappointed with them either. It was just a sidegrade taking awesome metal models and basically making plastics out of them with more options. I don't know what they'd do differently.

I think its a good codex

There is plenty of variety in the builds so not everyone willhave the same Grey Knight army.

I like most of the fluff even if others think its stupid.

I think the models look excellent, the kits give a lot of choices.

I don't think it will be a game breaking codex, there are some armies it will be good against and some it will struggle against.

About the Dreadknight... I expected a single Terminator/ Paladin, that was enhanced with as much magic as possible, maybe was even thrown into the warp to "absorb" some of its powers, and be spittet out like a deamon prince with Terminator armour.... his body corrupted, his mind still clear to fight against chaos. Would fit more to the fluff about the "more radical" Grey Knights.

Anyway, "radical" Grey Knights??? The Hell?? Grey Knights have always been as puritan as possible, but with the psilencer they use frikkin' alien tech (hinted in the fluff in the armoury)???? What the ****?


Back in the "old days" (god beware), I've never considered the Grey Knights to be a "marine" codex. Sure, they're marines, but with WS 5, Fearless, Aegis Armour, and Shrouding, they were an entirely different army. The lack of any Fast Attack or basic transports emphasized this.

Now, WS 5=> down to pref. Enemy against Deamons - I don't like it. Fearless to ATSKNF=> not fluffy in any way, from a gameplay perspective, it may be an upgrade though.
And True Grit? Space Wolves don't get it, Plague Marines don't get, so Grey Knights don't get it, too? Sorry... just sorry...

There were so many possibilities... Razorbacks with 4 different weapons: Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer, Long Barreled twin-linked Psycannon, Heavy Psycannon.
But instead - Fortitude, which I consider overpowered/ underpriced for what it does, especially if there is no psychic hood or similar.

Land Raider & Crusader are ok, but there is a wonderful (but outdated) forgeworld Land Raider Redeemer with Psycannons instead of assault cannons.

motorhead1945 wrote:Grey Knight stuff

In the older than old days, Grey Knights were just Terminators. WS5 down to preferred enemy against Daemons is fluffier, since it meats they'll be carving through Bloodthirsters as easily as anything else. They would've been hitting on 4s anyway. For game balance purposes it also means they're not quite as adept at butchering everything else. Fearless to ATSKNF is odd, but they don't take No Retreat wounds so I guess that's a plus. True Grit is out of the game altogether, and that's fine. They get force weapons on every man so I think that's a definite sidegrade, if not an upgrade. As for using alien technology, their job is to kill daemons in the best way they can. It's a fluff oddity considering the way the Imperium is, but I think it's actually fairly interesting that they'll do anything they can to do their job, even if it means doing heretical (but not quite as heretical as cavorting with daemons) things to do it. The Dreadknight is goofy and I figured it would be. Good point on razorbacks though. They're awfully vanilla and I don't like the psychic drivers in the codex. Forgeworld is releasing new rules to use the psycannons on Land Raiders. How are they outdated though? They still look good.

Brother SRM wrote:

motorhead1945 wrote:Grey Knight stuff

In the older than old days, Grey Knights were just Terminators. That's looong long ago... I wasn't into Warhammer that time.. for me, the game began with the advent of 3rd ed, though I love the fluff of older pieces

As for using alien technology, their job is to kill daemons in the best way they can. It's a fluff oddity considering the way the Imperium is, but I think it's actually fairly interesting that they'll do anything they can to do their job, even if it means doing heretical (but not quite as heretical as cavorting with daemons) things to do it.
You opened my mind on this one to a different approach... although Grey Knights loathe "the warp" and it's creatures ( 3rd ed. Deamonhosts incompatibility with Grey Knights), I can't remember any hatred against creatures in the "realm of mortals". Probably they would accept weapons of psychic races, i.e. eldar (Conversion Ideas come up in my head....), to destroy the "greater threat" of deamon incursions.
Maybe I was too much focused on the contrast between puritan and radicial INQUISITORS, this doesn't need to apply to the Gk though


Good point on razorbacks though. They're awfully vanilla and I don't like the psychic drivers in the codex. Forgeworld is releasing new rules to use the psycannons on Land Raiders. How are they outdated though? They still look good.
If they revise the rules, ok. In 3rd ed, of course there was nothing like a Redeemer LR-class. When 5th ed SM brought it, Forgeworld cranked out good, reasonable rules for a GK varient, using the old psycannon and "Flamestorm Incinerators" rules, i.e. ignoring invuls. If there is going to be a new ruleset, I think it will "just" be a codex-redeemer with psycannons as an ~10 to 20 points upgrade for assault cannons.
Although I can imagine different ugrade kits, the already mentioned Dreadknight weapons either as turret or sponsons

Hey, you remember that time someone made a Dreadknight/Grey Knight/Matt Ward/3+ hate thread?

Yes. There are other people infuriated about the quality of _SOMETHING_ in GW's domain. You are not alone. Something is rotten in the state of FortyKay. I'm actualy surprised you had to ask given the fact that there's been about an average of a thread locked a day on it since April started.

Anyone else out there infuriated by the quality and amount of threads complaining about the new GK codex?

Just Dave wrote:Anyone else out there infuriated by the quality and amount of threads complaining about the new GK codex?

I'm infuriated by the quality and amount of posts complaining about the complaining.

Eh, this happens with every new codex.

It's bad, but I'm not certain it's normally THIS bad.

I think the problem is two fold:

1) Few people were eagerly anticipating this codex. Normally, there are a lot of people that are excited about an army getting a new book. Grey Knights are a niche army with a pretty small fanbase.

2) The army has been redefined in a way not seen since the Chaos Space Marine codex. There are a lot of parrallels: both took away a"allies," both altered the way the army played, etc. Grey Knights were a pretty mysterious chapter, with a handful of units and one named character. They made a lot of stuff out of whole cloth for this book.

I just don't like the fluff. Hence why I am using them as custodes.

Asherian Command wrote:I just don't like the fluff. Hence why I am using them as custodes.

That makes even less sense. Custodes are not an army of any definition.

Elnicko5 wrote:Preferred enemy Deamons (What does that even mean?)

I cannot speak for the fluff which is the biggest reason for you constant crying thing here but how the feth are you not able to understand that?

You DO know what preferred enemy rule is right? Well Preferred enemy Daemons means they get that rule ONLY when fighting Daemons. Thus they reroll all their stuff when fighting against Chaos Daemons in close combat

Serious man, it really could not be any more clear as to what it means.

- Quite obvious what the rule is actually.

I am only infuriated by the single way the codex breaks the game, with the infinte spam psychers after using the HQ to unlock them as troops without FOC. Really, 10 units with a 36 inch str 10 ap 1 large blast is nasty, I've only found a single way to even attempt to stop it, Kharn.

Beyond that, WHERE is my BLOODLY FAQ gw. Where. This book has more holes than swiss cheese.

Im almost in complete agreement with you, ESPECIALLY on Draigo. Not that he's over powered so much, but the fluff, most disappointing the fact that he JUST appeared for someone so epic.

As for the meta game, they're nothing to worry so much about, especially if they take vehicles. I saw my friend beat them yesterday, WITH CHAOS DAEMONS WHO DEEP STRUCK HALF THERE ARMY OFF THE TABLE. He tabled the dude.

Really i think it all comes down to Mat Ward's awful writing and i really want to know what he was on when he gave the dreadknight the ability to move like jump infantry. Crack? Heroin? LSD? Primer?

juraigamer wrote:I am only infuriated by the single way the codex breaks the game, with the infinte spam psychers after using the HQ to unlock them as troops without FOC. Really, 10 units with a 36 inch str 10 ap 1 large blast is nasty, I've only found a single way to even attempt to stop it, Kharn.

Beyond that, WHERE is my BLOODLY FAQ gw. Where. This book has more holes than swiss cheese.

Really? I do not remember that when reading through it the first time?

hmm...looks like you need psychic hoods. or guys with Negate that psychic power or your just doomed.

My Marines are kind of scared of Grey Knights, since all the power weapons will eat my dudes. My Guard could not give less of a damn though. Grey Knights look like Marines, smell like Marines, and die like Marines. Battle cannons and AV14 keep me from being scared of them at all. I honestly think the only armies that have real trouble are Tyranids because of all the force weapons, daemons because of the preferred enemy rules, warp quake and so on, and other elite power armor armies.

i understand the purpose of dreadknights, just not the design! thats the only qualm i really have!

xdefton3sx wrote
i understand the purpose of dreadknights, just not the design! thats the only qualm i really have!

i agree the model is terrible, but im not to impressed with the idea/purpose either. the dreadknight kinda takes away from the imagery of grey knights, who (too me) were a bunch of badass marines who walked up greater daemons and daemon princes and backhanded them so hard they were blasted in back in to the warp.

now they have a giant WALKER (despite what it says in the rules) who towers over the warp nasties to do the job for them.

overall, i just plain don't like it

Field Gen wrote:

Elnicko5 wrote:Preferred enemy Deamons (What does that even mean?)

I cannot speak for the fluff which is the biggest reason for you constant crying thing here but how the feth are you not able to understand that?

You DO know what preferred enemy rule is right? Well Preferred enemy Daemons means they get that rule ONLY when fighting Daemons. Thus they reroll all their stuff when fighting against Chaos Daemons in close combat

Serious man, it really could not be any more clear as to what it means.

- Quite obvious what the rule is actually.

For someone so ignorant you sure speak harshly. The only thing defined by rules as a daemon is the Avatar. Furthermore, even if you were to use your definition, CSM daemon princes, greater daemons, lesser daemons and spawns would, somehow, NOT be daemons. Not so obvious after all eh?

So someone else moaning about Draigo's fluff, Dreadknights, the writing abilties of Matt Ward and how GKs are breaking 40k?

Move along people, nothing to see here.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:So someone else moaning about Draigo's fluff, Dreadknights, the writing abilties of Matt Ward and how GKs are breaking 40k?

Move along people, nothing to see here.

L. Wrex

Awww cmon Wrex
Don't you know the quota of at least one Matt Ward thread needs to be filled a day?

Anyways I'm gonna level
I don't find it that bad after reading through it
Some of the fluff is very questionable no doubt, some of it makes me want to pull out my hair
But there are good things in it

Try Coteaz, i think thats one of the best parts in it honestly

AW - actually all of Codex : Daemons have the rule as well.

Coteaz does not unlock infinite henchmen. He really doesnt

Crowe is not an IC for a damned good reason: he then gives you 2 cleansing flares in combat quite easily, plus he is meant to be a loner.

I do love that people complain about new fluff, yet when a book doesnt have too much new fluff in it they complain as well....sigh

nosferatu1001 wrote:AW - actually all of Codex : Daemons have the rule as well.

Meh, guess I'm the ignorant one then. Still, doesn't solve the issue with daemon princes etc.