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Made in ca
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Ajax, ON. Canada

Any of you who follow my posts know, that I have a hard time with the Chaos Marine Codex.

My army is the Red Corsairs and I try to play them as fluffy as I can. That being said I find it impossible to be competitive. Now I'm not for WAAC but I would like to last longer then 3-4 turns. I miss having that feeling that I have a chance.

The Red Corsairs are a reasonable young army. They haven't been in the maelstrom as long as most Chaos legions in the warp. All their equipment is not pre-heresy and they acuire the rest through raids, so their equipment is fairly new. Their tactics are Marine based, Trained on marine equipment. According to IA9 The Astral Claws had the technology to use the geneseed to produce a large force hidden with-in the ranks of Tyrant's Legion. I believe that he would continue this, but with no restrictions on numbers. Huron captured the Wolf of Fenris so its not a far stretch that he would have SW geneseed or even converted SW. That being the case then any SM chapter can be converted to the Red Corsairs.

There are a few things I like about Chaos that I want to somehow keep:
  • Huron Blackheart - (I dont use him often, but good to have) Either I use his stats in IA9 or come up with something similar

  • Chosen - (My behind the lines Melta Tank killer) I would like something like this

  • Berzerkers - (I love CC and the power these guys have) BA is known for CC


  • My current List:

    HQ:
    Chaos Lord - Powerfist, Combi-melta (not Important)

    Elites:
    5 Chosen - 2 Meltas, 3 flamers, Rhino (I'd like to keep if I can)

    Troops:
    8 Khorne Berzerkers - Rhino (something similar)
    - 1 Skull Champion - Powersword

    9 Khorne Berzerkers - Rhino (something similar)
    - 1 Skull Champion - Powersword

    10 CSM - 2 Plasmagun - Rhino (not Important)

    10 CSM - 2 Plasmagun - Rhino (not Important)

    Heavy: (need new Heavy, never liked using Defilers and Obliterators because of fluff, either too mutated or daemon-y. So these guys will hit the shelf until a good Chaos codex comes out)
    Defiler

    Defiler

    2 Obliterators



    1749pts

    Here is what I have left:

    Huron
    Mephiston
    Typhus

    2 AoBR dreads
    20 Terminators (magnetized and many options)

    20 more Headless Berzerkers
    5 nurgle

    3 Bikes
    5 Raptors

    1 more Rhino (I have a total of 6)
    Rhino conversions - 2 predators kits, 2 plasma & lascannon Razorback kits and 2 Heavy Bolter Razorback Kits (keep in mind If I use these kits I lose available Rhinos)

    2 landraiders (only one 90% built)
    Havocs - 3 Heavy Bolters, 5 Missile Launchers, one Lascannon, alot of Meltas, flamers and Plasmaguns

    Please vote for which codex would better suit my Red Corsairs, new and improved Renegade Army and Please if you can give me list and suggestions for converting to these codexs

    This is a link to my Red Corsair Blog for pictures and WIP


    This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2011/06/28 18:47:32


    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in us
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader




    Pacific NW

    With what you currently have, Space Wolves are the easiest for you to use. They're the most like Chaos out of all the other Space Marine armies when you consider everything (wargear, unit composition, and the Wolf Lord is basically a Chaos Lord stat wise). Its the easiest to just say:

    Chaos Lord == Wolf Lord
    CSM == Grey Hunters
    Bezerkers == Blood Claws (maybe using Mark of the Wulfen for your Champions with a little conversion with the mutation sprue?)

    The biggest problem you're going to have is your Chosen, Defilers, and Obliterators. I don't know of any unit outside of the Chosen themselves that can take that many special weapons and outflank in a transport or whatever else you need them to do. Defilers just won't work as anything else, the closest the Space Marines have are Dreadnoughts I'd say, but they're way smaller. Obliterators just don't have anything like them.

    Wolf Guard are close to Chosen in that they can get a lot of unique wargear per model, but they just don't get full on meltaguns/plasmaguns/flamers. At best you can do Combi weapons.


    It was my impression that the Blood Angels' strength was in using Jump Infantry rather than mounted units. If someone knows the BA's better and can think of something that may be the better route, but off what I know you'd want to use the rules for Space Wolves if you aren't using Chaos Space Marines.

       
    Made in us
    Decrepit Dakkanaut






    Madison, WI

    Hey Styro,

    My thoughts on some vanilla marine switches. I'm not really recommending it, not the most competitive dex... but very flexible and fun to play. You should win your share of battles. I'm going to stick with the troops as I'm sure you can figure out the HQ's.

    Chosen: I'd make them sternguard. You don't get 5 special weapons, but you can get say... two meltas and 3 combi-flamers (which are close), and they can take the rhino too. They are elites and their normal ammo selection (for the combi-flamers) is outstanding. Arguably one of the best units in the SM dex.
    Berzerkers: Could be simple assault marines or if you want to get fancy, stick a jump pack on each and call them vanguard. I think both squads can take a rhino (without jump packs of course).
    CSMs: They can transfer over fine to a tac squad, but I believe you only get 1 special weapon per squad (you can take a heavy though).
    Defilers: Have them function as Iron Clad dreadnoughts. They're fluffy, and as long as you run them by normal IC dreadnought rules I don't think anyone would have any issues fighting them.
    Oblits: Cyclone Missile Launcher terminators for a termie squad. You can take 2 per squad.

    Good luck!
    Gits




    Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

    Gitsplitta's Unified Painting Theory
     
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    Just to clarify my current heavy is hittin' the shelves. I know that nothing can replace them, but honestly they never really did fit in my army anyway.

    I have Bunkers Predators and Razorbacks. Both of which I made into Rhinos. But they can be made back at the cost of my Rhinos.

    I like the Wolf Guard Idea for my chosen but I also like the sternguard
    Blood claws I think are a bit weak to be berzerkers tho and everything in the SW codex get counter attack
    The BA codex has alot of CC stuff. but beside that I dont know much



    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/20 19:25:26


    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in br
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    Brazil

    Hello brother... I run Salamander with Space Wolves rules. I love that codex, but dont like so much the Chapter...

    For me Codex:SW is exactly the Renegade Marines codex. Everything is usefull, and custumizable.

    But in your case, Blood Angels are perfect...

    For Troops:

    Take Assault Squads without Jump Packs, then you can buy Transport for -35 points, and Every assault squad can have a Sarge (Champion?) with PF.

    Then, in each assault squad you can put one Sanguinary Priest, They cost 50 points each, and can be taken in bunchs of 3 using one elite slot, and are all IC. they give Feel No Pain and Furious Charge for everyone in their squad (pretty berserkers of Khorn/Nurgle hu ). Those guys are like "morale boosters" in your army, great for Chaos icons, or Standart Carriers.

    That way you get berserkers, in rhinos...






    If my post show some BAD spelling issues, please forgive-me, english is not my natural language, and i never received formal education on it...
    My take on Demiurgs (enjoy the reading):
    http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/537654.page
    Please, if you think im wrong, correct me (i will try to take it constructively). 
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    Whoa FNP and Furious Charge thats pretty sick. Thats a super Berzerker


    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in gb
    Fixture of Dakka






    Lincolnshire, UK

    I'd recommend Blood Angels for their variability and aptitude for close combat, or Space Wolves, who excel at close quarters, much like your average CSM.

    I'm unsure as to why you're struggling with competitiveness tbh, it seems like a pretty good list; I'd recommend a better HQ (Sorcerer or DP) and IoCG on your CSM's but otherwise it looks like a solid list.

    The problem with SW's is that they'd have a problem representing 'Zerkers, unlike Blood Angels.

    Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

    "It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
    - Roboute Guilliman

    "As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
    - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
     
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    I have no idea why I'm struggling either? I have no problem losing, I've come to realize that I'm the Heel, the bad that never wins. But I would like to put up a fight and/or fear in my opponent.

    Chaos can be competitive if you use the right stuff. LIke DP, Marks, Deamons, etc. But I don't use those, I don't even like using the defilers or the Obliterators fluff wise. They are great units and need them to play chaos at all.

    I believe that the Red Corsairs are a Pirate Marine army and they dont worship the Chaos Gods

    And thats why the post and the help is needed.

    So far the poll seems pretty even, We need more votes and maybe a few List ideas

    Thanks
    Styrofoam

    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in us
    Smokin' Skorcha Driver






    Utah

    Space wolves is so versitile that it was almost meant to be used to represent other armies, particularly chaos.

    Chosen = Wolf guard. Pretty much the same options minus outflank. Cheaper weapon options across the board as well. 5 pt combi weapon(melta, plasma, or flamer), plus all the usual veteran cc weapons like claws,10 pt PWs, 20 pt fists, 15 pt Str5 Pws(frost blades).

    Wolf guard also make great berzerkers. 18 pts per model with 2 base attacks and extra ccw. Thats 4 attacks on a charge (or counter attack). Plus you can put in 2 or 3 PWs or fists, etc. Masks great assault units. Really, the zerkers seem to be the backbone of the list you want to keep, and with logan on the table they also become troops. So you could have your zerker units(bare bones wolf guard) and yoru chosen unit(s) (wolf guard with combi weapons) and have 4-6 troop choices on the table. Then flavor to your personal tast with dreds, TWC, long fangs, preds, speeders, awesome scouts that infiltrate from the oponents back table edge,) etc. Sounds like the list you want to run right there.

    Logan or any wolf lord make great chaos characters, good rune preist powers for sorcerers, decent armor options including all 3 land raider varients. Logan also has a mini feat where every friendly model within 18 inches gets an extra attack once per game, making the wolf guard zerkers 5 attacks each on that turn. he also grants tank hunters, prefered enemy, relentless, or fearless to the squad he is with each turn. Makes for a very strong Close combat assault wave.

    TWC can be represnted as many thing chaos if the fancy takes you, and are sort of reminisent of the old juggy zerker cav.

    Acute senses re-labled as demonic sight makes for good times in night fight as well.

    Blood angles have a few things that fit, but they seem too rigid for most counts as armies.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/21 22:05:39


       
    Made in no
    Huge Bone Giant





    Bergen

    Hello!

    If you wnat to convert SW to Chaos look at this thread:

    http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=185020&st=25&p=2268144&#entry2268144

    They look very good!

    I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

    Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

    Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

     
       
    Made in us
    Paingiver





    Ailaros is building a CSM army that has no princes, deamons, oblits or deflilers that looks like a lot of fun berzerker and raptor heavy. I don't want to post the list he sent me but send him a PM and check it out.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Actually here is a list to his blog on here:
    http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/355852.page

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/21 23:06:16


    Thus, After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd
    -Alexis de Tocqueville. 
       
    Made in gb
    Fixture of Dakka






    Lincolnshire, UK

    Well Mannahnin - one of our "beloved" (they're listening) moderators - came 2nd in Adepticon with the following list, although he's clearly a very good player:


    My list, since someone asked, was:
    Lash prince
    lash sorc w/personal icon, jump pack (sorry 40kEnthusiast, I know I promised you last year that I'd fix him and give him wings, but I got busy working on my BA)

    4 terminators w/chainfist, hvy flamer, 3x combi-meltas
    5 Chosen w/3 meltas, 2 flamers, in Rhino w/combi-melta
    Dreadnought w/Missile Launcher

    10 CSM w/2 meltas, icon of glory, champ w/fist, in Rhino w/combi-melta
    10 CSM w/2 meltas, icon of slaanesh, champ w/PW, in Rhino
    5 LDs
    5 LDs

    5 Havocs w/icon of glory, 4x ML
    2x 2 oblits
    1850




    Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

    "It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
    - Roboute Guilliman

    "As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
    - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
     
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    Thanks for the input guys keep it coming!

    Niiai wrote:Hello!

    If you wnat to convert SW to Chaos look at this thread:

    http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=185020&st=25&p=2268144&#entry2268144

    They look very good!


    Ya thanks, I seen these guys and started my own 'Huron's wolves'

    Just Dave wrote:Well Mannahnin - one of our "beloved" (they're listening) moderators - came 2nd in Adepticon with the following list, although he's clearly a very good player:


    My list, since someone asked, was:
    Lash prince
    lash sorc w/personal icon, jump pack (sorry 40kEnthusiast, I know I promised you last year that I'd fix him and give him wings, but I got busy working on my BA)

    4 terminators w/chainfist, hvy flamer, 3x combi-meltas
    5 Chosen w/3 meltas, 2 flamers, in Rhino w/combi-melta
    Dreadnought w/Missile Launcher

    10 CSM w/2 meltas, icon of glory, champ w/fist, in Rhino w/combi-melta
    10 CSM w/2 meltas, icon of slaanesh, champ w/PW, in Rhino
    5 LDs
    5 LDs

    5 Havocs w/icon of glory, 4x ML
    2x 2 oblits
    1850



    Thanks but Mannahnin's list doesn't fit my fluff. He uses deamons, too many marks and a lash prince (pretty much all the strengths of chaos). I refuse to use them and thats why I'm making a renegade list.

    Tho I'm still stuck on either SW or BA?!

    Need more votes, and a few list examples. Please


    Automatically Appended Next Post:

    I was wondering can I use IA9 HQs (Huron) with SW, BA or is it strictly SM and Guard?

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/25 20:40:53


    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    No new votes, or lists? What about an answer to: "I was wondering can I use IA9 HQs (Huron) with SW, BA or is it strictly SM and Guard?"


    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in us
    Decrepit Dakkanaut






    Madison, WI

    Do whatever your opponent lets you get away with! ;^)

    Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

    Gitsplitta's Unified Painting Theory
     
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    lol, but is it legal? can It be used in Tourneys?

    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in us
    Decrepit Dakkanaut






    Madison, WI

    Kind of depends on your local gaming scene. Down here in this part of the states, IA units are considered "by consent of your opponent", which in essence consigns them to the world of the fandex. Even Adepticon, which has always been very IA friendly, only allowed one unit to one team member per 4-person team. Most serious gamers in my neck-of-the-woods consider the IA rules to be poorly thought out and overbalancing, so they aren't typically allowed in tournament play.

    There are folks on dakka who's gaming scene is fully IA integrated & who consider their rules just as valid as something in a codex.

    So, the question is what's your local scene like? Might be worth asking around near home.

    Personally... if you were using your army to "counts-as" one of the most powerful codeci, and on top of that wanted to add a special character out of IA... I would suspect very deep cheese in process. But that's just my personal opinion... the opinions that count are those of your local TOs.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/26 15:30:05


    Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

    Gitsplitta's Unified Painting Theory
     
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    Thanks Gits that helps alot. I never thought of it as cheese, but it is a good point and I could end pissing some of people off. I'm not after the win. I just want the fluff and have a bit of fun.

    I like the Characters in the IA9 for the Astral Claws, and I'm really trying to get Huron in my list. Even though he is very pricey! But at the same time I trying to convert codex.

    I thinK SM would cost me too much to convert as I don't really have many Marines that hold bolters (I think I made four). Almost of my Marines have the bolt pistol and CC weapon. Then again switching to any codex is going to cost me.

    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in us
    Decrepit Dakkanaut






    Madison, WI

    I don't think switching to vanilla marines is your best bet, even though that's what I run. You might have a better argument using the IA characters in your army with either the blood angels or wolves as both those chapters already have *really powerful* special characters. So as long as you don't mix and match (i.e. Huron and Dante for example) you might make a better case for yourself.

    Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

    Gitsplitta's Unified Painting Theory
     
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    Thanks again, Mixing wouldn't work for my fluff, lol.

    --

    Ok so Bunker Sent me a list for SW I don't think it will work for me. But I will post it to start the Idea flowing

    HQ:
    Rune Priest in Power Armour, 115 pts (Chooser of the Slain; Melta Bombs; Living Lightning; Murderous Hurricane) - (could use a Chaos Lord)

    Elite:
    5 Wolf Guard in Power Armour, 165 pts (Combi-Meltagun x1; Power Weapon x1) - (Chosen)

    5 Wolf Scouts Pack, 85 pts (Meltagun) - (Dont have)

    5 Wolf Scouts Pack, 85 pts (Meltagun) - (Dont have)

    Troops:
    5 Grey Hunters Pack, 130 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon) - (use either Berzerkers or CSM)
    Rhino - (Have)

    5 Grey Hunters Pack, 130 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon) - (use either Berzerkers or CSM)
    Rhino - (Have)

    5 Grey Hunters Pack, 130 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon) - (use either Berzerkers or CSM)
    Rhino - (Have Rhino/Predator)

    5 Grey Hunters Pack, 130 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon) - (use either Berzerkers or CSM)
    Rhino - (Have Rhino/Predator)

    5 Grey Hunters Pack, 130 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon) - (use either Berzerkers or CSM)
    Rhino - (Dont have)

    Heavy Support:
    5 Long Fangs Pack, 215 pts (Missile Launcher x5) - (Have)
    Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon) - (Aspiring Champion)
    Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun) - (Have)

    5 Long Fangs Pack, 215 pts (Missile Launcher x5) - (Dont have)
    Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon) - (Aspiring Champion)
    Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun) - (Have)

    5 Long Fangs Pack, 215 pts (Missile Launcher x5) - (Dont have)
    1 Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon) - (Aspiring Champion)
    1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun) - (Dont have)

    Total Roster Cost: 1745

    For me to do this list I would need to buy alot of things. Can anyone help me better this list or make me a BA list?

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/26 17:47:16


    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in ca
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    Canada

    I said it before and I'll say it here: Sisters of Battle.

    But more over, get the BA and SW dex and switch between them whenever, I'm all for playing against counts-as lists, and you have a lot of models to fit the bill for both codexes (codecies?)

     
       
    Made in us
    Smokin' Skorcha Driver






    Utah

    Using the wolves dex and matching the main body of your list:

    Chosen = Wolf guard, 5 3 with combi flamer, 2 with combi melta, Rhino. 150pts
    Zerkers = Wolf guard: 8, 1 with PW, Rhino 189pts
    Zerkers = Wolf Guard: 9, 1 with PW, Rhino 207 pts
    CSM = Grey hunters: 10, 2 with PG, Rhino 195pts
    CSM = Grey Hunters: 10, 2 with PG, Rhino 195pts

    Thats 936 total as the base of the list using your current models.

    Wolf guard are all veterans with 2 base attacks, and bp/CW so represent zerkers just fine with 4 attacks on the charge. Combi weapons arnt as cool as flamers and melta guns proper, but they get the job done on the cheap. Grey hunters are one of the better troop choices in the game, point for point.



    You can build a wolf lord to make huron. They can have pretty much any peice of wargear available to space marines(including combi flamer) and some fun sagas to give you extra boosts. You can use wolf lords, rune preists, battle back leaders or lone wolves to represent just about any other character imaginable, and they are all effective characters too. All of them are pretty customizable and have a ton of gear options and special rules to represent whichever character you're trying to fluff into your lists.

    You can season in other units from heavies, like long fangs, or regualr tanks like preds/vindis, drednaughts, etc. Or you can throw down some termie love(since you have 20 of them), though they would have to start on the board unless you buy drop pods(no teleporting for SW terms). You'd also have to include logan grimnar to make the wolf guard troops to add a unit of terms into the above list though. But then theyed be troops terminators.

    Download the trial version of army builder if you want to just play around with different builds to see what things cost. It's no substitute for the codex, but can give you an idea of just how many points some of the differetn things your considering will cost for any of the armies you are considering.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/26 22:52:16


       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    Thanks alot Mephistoles1, this comparison is exactly what I was looking for.

    I also own Armybuilder 3.2. But I could never find space wolves, Even after downloading the new client. It took me a while but I found it in the Space marine options. So I finally got to play with it. I didn't get to play long before 'The Old Crow' wanted attention. I'll prolly get more time tonight. Then I'll post another SW list. One more to my style.

    Keep in mind I'm still Intrested in a BA list as well. Like More Dakka said I should do both armies. Since the Poll is so close I might as well try both.
    So If BA player could help me like Mephistoles1 did that would be appreciated.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    I wonder Who voted for Other? lol

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/28 12:59:55


    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    So playing around with Armybuilder and alot of help from More Dakka I came up with this Space Wolf list. Lot of it still has the feel of my Red Corsairs, but Obviously changes are to be made. I own everything in this list so there is nothing i need to buy. I would still like help making it better or help with tactics with SW lists because it still confuses me.


    HQ:
    Wolf Lord in Power Armour @ 175 pts Belt of Russ; Wolftooth Necklace; Power Fist; Power Weapon; (Pretty much Huron w/ no heavy flamer)

    Elite:
    Wolf Guard Pack @ 207 pts (Berzerkers in Rhino w/ Huron)
    8 Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon
    1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon;
    1 Rhino

    Wolf Guard Pack @ 279 pts (Split for Chosen, and Aspiring Champions for troops)
    3 Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Combi-Meltagun x3; Power Fist x3 (Aspiring Champions)
    3 Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Close Combat Weapon; Combi-Meltagun x3 (Chosen)
    2 Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Close Combat Weapon; Combi-Flamer x2 (Chosen)
    1 Rhino (For the Chosen should I have the Rhino or take a Razorback?)

    1 Dreadnought @ 115 pts; Wolftooth Necklace; Dreadnought CCW; Storm Bolter; Multi-Melta

    Troops:
    9 Grey Hunters Pack @ 190 pts; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x8; Close Combat Weapon x8; Meltagun; Power Weapon
    1 Rhino

    9 Grey Hunters Pack @ 190 pts; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x8; Close Combat Weapon x8; Meltagun; Power Weapon
    1 Rhino

    9 Grey Hunters Pack @ 190 pts; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x8; Close Combat Weapon x8; Meltagun; Power Weapon
    1 Rhino

    Heavy Support:
    1 Predator @ 85 pts Autocannon; Heavy Bolter

    1 Predator @ 85 pts Autocannon; Heavy Bolter

    5 Long Fangs Pack @ 215 pts, Close Combat Weapon x5; Missile Launcher x5
    1 Squad Leader Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon
    1 Razorback Lascannon and TL Plasmagun

    Total Roster Cost: 1731

    Now I'm not 100% sure but I think I can split the Would Guard and add them into my troops. So I thought I'd create My 'Chosen' 3 Combi-Meltas, 2 Combi-Flamer. But I don't think these guys will be effective. The other 3 will be my Aspiring Champions that will be added to my troops. 1 each
    I have 2 dreads but I have never use them before. so I thought Id throw one in. But I dont think it will be effective alone or w/out a drop pod. I think another Squad of berzerkers would be better or drop it completely and give my Elite guard and find the rest of the points for a LR

    Still need help, so keep the comments flowing

    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in gb
    Fixture of Dakka






    Lincolnshire, UK

    list-wise, that's a pretty solid SW list, there's a few flaws in it, but nothing too substantial or that couldn't be changed easily.

    Dreadnoughts with a MM REALLY need a pod to be able to get into range, under such a case, they'd also be best with a Heavy Flamer to take on infantry enemies also. A necklace however, adds little. A Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, MM and pod would be 150pts and would be an improvement over your current dreadnought, however a single dreadnought in this manner is unlikely to last long, so I'd actually recommend giving it a ranged weapon, so possibly 2x Autocannon, Lascannon/Heavy Flamer or Plasma Cannon/Heavy Flamer.
    Alternatively, you could drop the dreadnought altogether, however as-it-stands, I'd say it's the weak point in your list.

    I'm not a fan of power weapons in Grey Hunter packs either; they have too limited an application compared to the equal-points MotW IMHO. I'd recommend swapping all the power weapons for standards or MotW. Dropping them for standards would save you the necessary points for a pod on the dread or another 'chosen'.

    I personally prefer the predators to have AC/LC, than AC/HB as they'd excel at popping enemy armour, however the current build is fine and would form a fire-base with the fangs whilst the rest advances. A gun-dread could help this gun-line and potentially some counter-assault.

    I'm not too sure on the chosen as they'd have little use after the combi's are gone and even then they wouldn't be that reliable. I think they should either have another body or be changed to another 'bezerker' squad. However, the rhino is definitely the right choice as they can shoot out of the top.

    The bezerker squad is fine, however I'd recommend dropping another man, whose points could be better spent on another couple of power weapons, also 8 is khornes number so it makes sense too. The problem with the 'zerkers however is because they're the only unit of their type, they'd likely be the enemies priority target, something a rhino won't save you from! So I'd suggest you get another threatening unit to help detract fire from them...

    Hope that helps!

    Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

    "It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
    - Roboute Guilliman

    "As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
    - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
     
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    I have a game on the 28th of May I'd like to try this list

    Red Corsairs, Huron's Wolves

    HQ: Huron Blackheart
    Wolf Lord in Power Armour @ 180 pts - Belt of Russ; Melta Bombs; Wolftooth Necklace; Fenrisian Wolf; Power Fist; Power Weapon;


    Elite:
    Wolf Guard Pack @ 522 pts
    9 Wolf Guard in Power Armour - Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon x9;
    1 Land Raider - Multi-Melta

    Troops:
    9 Grey Hunters Pack @ 220 pts - Meltagun x2;
    1 Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen
    1 Rhino

    9 Grey Hunters Pack @ 220 pts - Meltagun x2;
    1 Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen
    1 Rhino

    9 Grey Hunters Pack @ 220 pts - Meltagun x2;
    1 Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen
    1 Rhino

    Heavy Support:
    Predator @ 85 pts - Autocannon; Heavy Bolter

    Predator @ 85 pts - Autocannon; Heavy Bolter

    5 Long Fangs Pack @ 215 pts - Missile Launcher x5;
    1 Squad Leader
    1 Razorback - Lascannon and TL Plasmagun


    Total Roster Cost: 1693

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/05/19 13:00:12


    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    Wow Just Dave, I just finished reading both your Space Wolf Tacticas. It gave me alot of insight. I never thought of trying scouts or land speeders (well mainly because I don't own any). My buddy Bunker offered to lend me 2 squads of scouts to try them out as well.

    So I'll prolyl drop the Land Raider and add some scouts. I'll also drop the MoW because I'm not sure I can justify this wolfy mutation

    In the meantime I will post Bunker's suggested list. I'd like to try a mix of both

    HQ: Huron Blackheart
    1 Wolf Lord in Power Armour, 170 pts (Belt of Russ; Melta Bombs; Wolf Tail Talisman; Power Weapon x1; Wolf Claw x1)

    Elite:
    5 Wolf Scouts Pack, 85 pts (Meltagun)

    5 Wolf Scouts Pack, 85 pts (Meltagun)

    1 Wolf Guard Pack, 178 pts
    4 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Combi-Meltagun x1; Power Weapon x1)
    2 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Close Combat Weapon; Combi-Meltagun x1)

    Troops:
    9 Grey Hunters Pack, 190 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon)
    1 Rhino

    9 Grey Hunters Pack, 190 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon)
    1 Rhino

    9 Grey Hunters Pack, 190 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon)
    1 Rhino

    9 Grey Hunters Pack, 190 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon)
    1 Rhino

    Heavy Support:
    5 Long Fangs Pack, 215 pts (Missile Launcher x5)
    1 Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)
    1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

    1 Predator, 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))

    1 Predator, 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))

    1663pts

    Suggestions welcome on mixing the two armies up

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/25 18:43:30


    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in gb
    Fixture of Dakka






    Lincolnshire, UK

    Thanks man, glad I could help. It's nice to hear people use my tactica's!

    I'd say both lists are pretty good, the list with the Land Raider is fine, although I'd recommend dropping the Fenrisian Wolf in that list to get a powerfist on the Wolf Guard squad, all those power weapons are a bit over-kill too, Land Raiders NEED extra-armour too; I rarely call anything a must, be with how many points will be invested in that Land Raider, extra armour is needed!
    The main problem with the Land Raider list is that it lacks other imposing threats to take the flak away from the Land Raider; having a second Land Raider, a pair of Vindicators or whatever can help prevent this, but as it stands your Land Raider's likely to draw a lot of fire. It may work better if you had AC/LC predators?

    Your latest list is also pretty good. I assume the Wolf Guard go in the 'Hunter and Scout packs? I'd recommend giving Huron a Powerfist and Powerweapon for fluff and flexibility, otherwise the Wolf Claw eliminates the need for the PW. I don't usually recommend a Wolf Tail talisman either. To round off the points, I'd recommend giving the 'Hunter Wolf Guard Powerfists instead of Power Weapons, swapping the Power Weapons in the Grey Hunter squads to Wolf Standards, giving Huron a powerfist and finally giving the Wolf Scout Wolf Guard a bit of CC punch (a power weapon each can be afforded from getting Wolf Standards) I'd also suggest giving at least one squad of Grey Hunters flamers as you have plenty of anti-armour.

    These are all minor changes however, as you said in your OP "Now I'm not for WAAC but I would like to last longer then 3-4 turns", these lists should achieve that and that's one of the advantages about SW's (well, not for me trying to give advice on them, but still! ) is how they're forgiving. Both lists are pretty good man, the above changes would make them better IMHO, but as I said, they're good.

    Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

    "It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
    - Roboute Guilliman

    "As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
    - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
     
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    Thanks again Just Dave!

    I think I'm ready to try both these lists with your advice on the changes. I will edit them.

    I don't understand why everyone keep asking about that Fenrisian wolf? I edited him out of the list a while ago, almost right after I posted that list! (I first put him in to represent huron's Hamadrya but then I found out that it counts as a model in transport, so I dropped him) I dont see him there, but I think everyone else does. I also added the extra armor and the AC/LC pred right after your first comment.

    I guess my edits arn't working

    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
    Made in ca
    Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





    Ajax, ON. Canada

    So I finally Had a few games with my Red Corsairs as SW.

    "Huron's Wolves"

    There is a tournament in July that i would like to go to, So I need to practice my SW. A few Guys and I from the Toronto WH40K thread met up at a local FLGS and had a few games.

    I had 2 games. both 1500pts and both against BA players.

    My list

    HQ: Huron Blackheart
    1 Wolf Lord in Power Armour, (Belt of Russ;Wolf Tail Talisman; Power Weapon x1; Powerfist x1)

    Elite:
    9 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol ; Power Weapon x9)
    1 Rhino

    Troops:
    10 Grey Hunters Pack, (Meltagun x2)
    1 Rhino

    10 Grey Hunters Pack, (Meltagun x2)
    1 Rhino

    10 Grey Hunters Pack, (Meltagun x2)
    1 Rhino

    Heavy Support:
    5 Long Fangs Pack, (Missile Launcher x5)
    1 Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)
    1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

    1 Predator, (Lascannon (each side))

    1 Predator, (Lascannon (each side))

    1447pts

    Not the best SW list, but it suits my play style.

    The first game was C&C with Dawn of War. This was my first time using the SW codex and for that reason my opponent decided to make a fun list. It was a good game that lasted 7 turns. If it ended on the 6th turn it would have been a tie. At this point He had wiped out my long Fangs and a unit of Grey Hunters at my control point, but he failed to destroy my Rhino which contested it. Huron and His Wolf Guard and the other 2 Grey Hunter units had to foot slog for 3 turns, but finally in the 6th turn I was able to contest the other control point for the tie. We then rolled for an additional turn and rolled a 6. Game On!! Huron and his Wolf Guard wiped out the remaining unit in 1 assault for the Win!

    It was a great first game. I believe that if he had stuck to his original list he would have won.

    The second game was against Bunker. It ended up being annihilation with Spear Head. Bunker Had the advantage for I have alot of units and rhinos. A few of the guys who were cheering me on were telling me that I have to hit him hard, because he can get more kill points off of me. The luck was in my corner (and my new dice)! ... I only lost a total of 3 kill points! He forfeited in the 3rd turn with not much left on the board.

    He wanted to waste away the tanks that my army pillaged from him, he managed to wreak one and immobilize another. The other two were unscathed! After the BA retreat these tanks and many BA tanks were salvaged to be used another Day for the Lord of the Maelstrom!

    VVV I added these battles into my Signature Battle Reports banners. hopefully there will be a different pattern from my Chaos VVV

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/28 18:01:36


    "The strong are strongest alone", Lufgt Huron, Tyrant of Badab.
    The Blood Reaver. Master of the Red Corsairs. Lord of the Maelstrom. Huron Blackheart.

    "Life sucks when it gets in the way of Warhammer." - CGBSpender 
       
     
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