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I've got plenty of spares kicking around the bits box. Some of the Stargrave arms have tablets and the Les Grognards heavy weapons hands should fit the bill.

I ordered 6 field ordnance battery guns from eBay for my Steel Legion army, we will have to see how well I can integrate those old metal models

 ph34r wrote:
I ordered 6 field ordnance battery guns from eBay for my Steel Legion army, we will have to see how well I can integrate those old metal models

I think I ordered 6. Or I ordered 12.

That's the problem. I either got 3 sprues (6 guns), or 6 sprues (12 guns). I won't know until they arrive.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
I ordered 6 field ordnance battery guns from eBay for my Steel Legion army, we will have to see how well I can integrate those old metal models

I think I ordered 6. Or I ordered 12.

That's the problem. I either got 3 sprues (6 guns), or 6 sprues (12 guns). I won't know until they arrive.

Whale.

I've noticed GW always takes away the little things that makes an army fun/even slightly competitive from the non-competitive armies but never truly nerfs the armies that always hit home runs.

Giving orders to deepstriking stormtroopers....man that was broken let's take it away!

General Hobbs wrote:
I've noticed GW always takes away the little things that makes an army fun/even slightly competitive from the non-competitive armies but never truly nerfs the armies that always hit home runs.

Giving orders to deepstriking stormtroopers....man that was broken let's take it away!

Clearly you were having fun the wrong way.

General Hobbs wrote:


I've noticed GW always takes away the little things that makes an army fun/even slightly competitive from the non-competitive armies but never truly nerfs the armies that always hit home runs.

Giving orders to deep striking stormtroopers....man that was broken let's take it away!

That would actually be a nice question: Can a deep striking Officer issue an order on the turn they deep strike? Considering they can do it when they disembark, I wouldn't say the chance is nil. Is that covered in the Codex?

Because if so, you could drop a Tempestor in the same move and have it issue the order. Not ideal, but at least some way to make it work. And also sort of fluffy. Regular people would have problems reacting to the sudden lightning jolt of a deep strike. But a Tempestor could have prepared to issue their order while they wait in the Teleportarium.

I don’t see any rule exceptions in the book for scions ordering after deep strike, but I haven’t really dug through the stratagems yet.

 GiToRaZor wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


I've noticed GW always takes away the little things that makes an army fun/even slightly competitive from the non-competitive armies but never truly nerfs the armies that always hit home runs.

Giving orders to deep striking stormtroopers....man that was broken let's take it away!

That would actually be a nice question: Can a deep striking Officer issue an order on the turn they deep strike? Considering they can do it when they disembark, I wouldn't say the chance is nil. Is that covered in the Codex?

Because if so, you could drop a Tempestor in the same move and have it issue the order. Not ideal, but at least some way to make it work. And also sort of fluffy. Regular people would have problems reacting to the sudden lightning jolt of a deep strike. But a Tempestor could have prepared to issue their order while they wait in the Teleportarium.

It is my understanding orders are now given in an earlier phase, which would preclude the movement phase.

General Hobbs wrote:
It is my understanding orders are now given in an earlier phase, which would preclude the movement phase.

Correct. Orders happen in the command phase and there is no way to give orders to a unit that arrives via deep strike.

A problem that astra militarum players noted as soon as the "command phase" came into existence, and yet here we are.

So.... yeah. this codex bullies scions to hell

Even their access to deeptrike its not THAT important since theres a relic with that specific spetial rule for karskin. who get the job done better with an extra regimental doctrine

Have Codex: besides Yarrick, the Lord Commissar, Crusaders, Veterans and Special Weapon Squads are gone.

Command Squads now incorporate the officer and are HQ’s.

Weirdly, there is the generic Platoon Command Squad, Cadian and Tempestus Command Squads have their own entry but Catachan don’t.

Also, Gaunt’s Ghosts are not a command squad. I didn’t expect them to be (they’re a spec ops team AFAIK) but I know some people referred to them as.

In addition there is just Heavy Weapon Squads, no specific ones for Cadia or Catachan. Inconsistent yet again!

What I’m really curious on is, and I admit this may have been the wrong impression, is that regimental doctrines could be chosen on a per unit basis. The wording though, says it’s for the whole detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, it looks like a lot of proof reading didn’t happen. Both Cadian and Krieg infantry squads say, for weapon options; Up to TWO models can select one of the following: [list of special weapons]*

*You cannot select the same weapon more than TWICE per unit.

Capital emphasis mine. Anyways the restriction is irrelevant.

Catachan, while restricted to flamers (dumb) but instead it says “for every 5 models one can have a flamer”.

The unit size is fixed at 10 models…

I understand that the lead times mean that finalizing a codex is a lot shorter of a period than we think. However, GW said they wrote all codexes at the same time this edition.

Even though it would natural to keep tweaking and testing a codex until release submission time, the fact that such basic design ideas weren’t nailed down until last minute says a lot about either the lack of work ethic of employees or the direction of management, or both.

TreeStewges wrote:
However, GW said they wrote all codexes at the same time this edition.

Don't tell me people were stupid enough to believe them.

At the start there was no reason to think otherwise, initial codexes were in line with each other more or less.

Further, given the power creep and simultaneous equipment restrictions, it’s not impossible that they were all drafted and initial tested at once and that later issues are due to a special kind of dumb being introduced for later codexes.

I mean you can write scripts for a movie trilogy all at once, but different actors and/or directors will just do things differently for better or for worse. Thus each entry will feel like someone totally different did everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any whose, the Platoon and Tempestus Command Squad can have any vet swap out to a special weapon but only one of each special weapon can be taken.

Cadian Command Squad is extra special. All 4 vets each have a different starter loadout (sans their grenades of course):

1.) lasgun, standard flag
2.) lasgun, medipack
3.) laspistol, master vox
4.) laspistol, chainsword

1.) can replace the lasgun and standard for any special weapon save sniper.

3.) or 4.) but not both, can replace their laspistol with a bolt pistol or plasma pistol.

4.) can replace their chainsword with a power sword, power fist, or any of the special weapons that 1.) can take as the kit does have two of each of the special weapons.

Bad news though: the new Cadian Command Squad uses 28mm bases while the normal Cadians troops are still on 25mm.

Anyone playing in an environment that’s picky about that even when using older models may want to look into base extenders. The rest of us shouldn’t care IMO.

Sentinel is worse, it’s now on an 80mm base versus 60mm. Double shame as current sentinels are also good as alts for Ork deffdreads, especially when using some leftover bits.

Further, I don’t think the new one is actually bigger overall. At best it might, emphasis might, be a bit taller. The old one looks like it barely fits on its 60mm base as its feet on effectively right on the edges. While the new one has some comfortable slop on 80mm.

While not a worthwhile change overall, this also means older sentinels can just use base extenders like cadian command squads.

(These should be taken as suggestions to overcome the created problem, they are not meant to excuse the created problems caused by increasing base sizes without making models actually bigger).

Sentinel also doesn’t have any new gear, it just looks different and more armored. While the directions tell you to attach the leg and foot armor for both variants I’d like to see how it looks without them, if anything so that the scout version looks a bit more different.

Good news though, the infantry kits, both command and troop, are in general fairly modular despite the directions implying that only certain parts will ever fit together:

- each leg is its own segment half with the left being the slot (in what would be the crotch area) with the right having the triangular peg.

While leg pairs may not fit super flush or have issues with sudden changes in cloth shape, well after a quick dry test fit there’s no reason you couldn’t ultimately combine legs however you want. You’ll just need to be prepared to do at least some basic filling and/or surgery.

- Torsos are separate with backs and sides being one part but the chest pieces being separate. My quick test shows that any chest should fit any back, and likewise any piece should in theory fit any leg pair.

- Arms seem to fit any body as the body has flat circle areas, as do arms, just like space marine kits. At worst, some special weapons >may< have an issue due to their pose hitting something IE at least one of the legs has a holstered combat knife sticking up.

- Finally heads are directly interchangeable.

In other words, these kits aren’t mono-anything!!! Not mono-gear, mono-cosmetic or mono-pose. At worst you’ll have to tweak mismatched leg pairs to look right together.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, this should be the last of my first impressions.

First to clarify my ork comment for those who don’t know, most ‘dreadnought’ sized walkers are $60 USD and are on 60mm bases including the ork deffdread. The current sentinel though, is $35 USD, and is therefore an instance of a ripe conversion being cheaper than the actual kit. Deffdreads have lots of leftover cosmetic and weapon bits that could ork-ify two sentinels easily, thus one could be a 3-man vehicle squadron (deffdread has that detachment deployment rule) for a price of just over the price of 2 dreds.

So the new sentinel being most likely $60 USD as my guess, and on a bigger base that has to be sourced otherwise, well fudge (I could go for some right now).

Another peculiarity is the field ordnance battery unit. The field gun option has blast + can target units not visible to bearer.

One, I just realized that a lot of codexes ignore or forget the core rule effect called indirect fire - which is the same thing but non-visible targets have -1 to the shooters hit rolls.

Two, field guns were direct fire weapons, IIRC, and were anti-tank weapons for fortified areas. The indirect fire ability seems more fitting for the rocket launcher option.

Lastly lets talk how big of army you get, while the contents are indeed a savings and therefore worth $200 if you want everything, my calculations show the armies points and power value are a bit low.

HQ: [1x] Cadian Command Squad - Min: 4 PL / 75 Points - Max: 4 PL / 85 Points if officer takes both plasma pistol and power fist (+5 each).

Troop: [2x] Cadian Shock Troops - Min: 3 PL / 65 Points - Max: Same, all options are free

Fast Attack: [1x] Sentinel - Min: 3 PL (Scout or Armored) / 40 Points for Scout, 45 Armored - Max: 3 PL / 50 Points for Scout, 55 Armored if Hunter-Killer missile and chainsaw taken (+5 each)

Heavy Support: [1x] 2 models fixed - Min & Max: 6 PL / 130 Points (all options free)

Total if Min options taken: 19 PL / 375 Points

Total if Max options taken: 19 PL / 400 Points

So a bit light but not by much, I mean it’s not terrible to have some left. The Mechanicus CP box IIRC is 21 PL and like 400 points minimum, but it can be pushed to 500 points easily if certain options are taken.

Keeping the box contents to only new units and only what would be found with a Cadian Regiment without going over a CP game size automatically;

that would leave more Sentinels (1 would get 450 which is reasonably close, 2 more would let you max out and make you think about options a bit), 1 heavy weapons squad (worth 3 PL / 55 Points, all options free), a Commissar (3 PL / 40 - 50 Points), A Cadian Castellan (3 PL / 50 - 60 Points) or Ursula Creed (4 PL / 80 Points).

Strategically, if I wanted to push the army level higher and were GW, I’d go for the Commissar, a second Sentinel or say screw pure new and throw in a Taurox.

A Commissar is a single figure which is what they make a lot on (if the markup on singles is any indication) but an army could always us multiples, versus Ursula or a Castellan would only be 1 in a detachment and would give a second HQ, in which case they’d only need a third infantry squad to qualify for a Brigade detachment!

A second sentinel wouldn’t hurt because they can fit in three in a slot/unit. Plus with two kinds of sentinel they’d have a chance of wanting 3 of each!

A Taurox because a simply transport to round things off doesn’t hurt but a Chimera is something a lot of people already have anyway.

Oh, and the book says the AM patrol box will be the exact same thing!!! :(

That sucks, they could swap the Sentinel for Rough Riders, the second troop for heavy weapons, a Hellhound for the Ordnance Battery, and the command squad for a Castellan. Or stuff along those lines.

The Leman Russ datasheet is clunky too. Each comes with a battle cannon and lascannon as standard for 150pts.

Yet you have to add +5 points to the base cost for the lascannon...whilst the replacement Hull options (heavy bolter and heavy flamer) are both 5 points each as well. Why not just make it 155 points base? The lascannon entry is largely irrelevant as it is not a sponson option.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
The Leman Russ datasheet is clunky too. Each comes with a battle cannon and lascannon as standard for 150pts.

Yet you have to add +5 points to the base cost for the lascannon...whilst the replacement Hull options (heavy bolter and heavy flamer) are both 5 points each as well. Why not just make it 155 points base? The lascannon entry is largely irrelevant as it is not a sponson option.

I presume this is to avoid things becoming arguably even *more* convoluted when you have to start distinguishing between sponson heavy bolters/flamers (which you have to pay for) and hull heavy bolters/flamers (which you don't have to pay for).

TreeStewges wrote:
At the start there was no reason to think otherwise, initial codexes were in line with each other more or less.

Besides all the previous examples you mean?

GW speaks lots of marketing speech. One would think after decades of them being proven to be talking hot air people would actually realize that Much like George Lucas keeps claiming he planned 9 movie series from the get-go yet other statements from him during years prove that having been incorrect...

As the saying goes fool me once...

 Nazrak wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
The Leman Russ datasheet is clunky too. Each comes with a battle cannon and lascannon as standard for 150pts.

Yet you have to add +5 points to the base cost for the lascannon...whilst the replacement Hull options (heavy bolter and heavy flamer) are both 5 points each as well. Why not just make it 155 points base? The lascannon entry is largely irrelevant as it is not a sponson option.

I presume this is to avoid things becoming arguably even *more* convoluted when you have to start distinguishing between sponson heavy bolters/flamers (which you have to pay for) and hull heavy bolters/flamers (which you don't have to pay for).

On the datasheet you have to pay for the Hull bolters and flamers as well I think. The Russ comes with the Lascannon as standard per the rules. Happy to be proved wrong, it is confusing though. The last thing you want with rules.

To tneva82:

I’ll say it again, the initial codexes this edition were in line with each other, this gave it credence.

And again, GW could have drafted all codexes at the same time then simply had a change of philosophy and later drafts of codexes to be released later got the stupid bat. That doesn’t make the initial claim a lie, that they started writing them all at the same time.

It sounds like you’re making the classic mistake of expecting consistency from GW, in the form of always the wrong decision.

The reality is that GW is on consistent on being inconsistent. It’s a total coin flip on whether they’ll do the right or wrong thing. My own impressions of the codex and kits are just a few examples.


To ListenToMeWarriors:

The problem with the Leman Russ and other entries is that writers can’t conceive of specifying which weapon areas they’re talking about. They could say “…can swap out the front hull heavy bolter for one if the following: heavy flamer, lascannon”. And, “…this model’s sponson mounts can have up to two of the following (one per side): lascannons, heavy bolters, heavy flamers, multi-meltas, plasma cannons”.

Just specifying how they’re mounted would solve the problem. They could also add a caveat that the front hull bolter is free so there’s no confusion.

Oh, found a forum where someone posted that the 7th edition codex at least specified that the pairs are sponsons.

Speaking of vehicles, on the Russ gets vehicle squadron. The hellhound and every other heavy support vehicle based on the chimera can only be taken one per slot now.

And the commissar no longer nukes a model to restore morale, it just happens.

With the commissar, you still lose the model for failing morale, but then pass the further tests, so that first model was evidently shot.

Right now my main issue for list writing is filling out fast attack and to a lesser degree elites choices… I can run myself up to 7 heavies no problem just taking heavy weapons, field ordnance, and a single russ. I guess sentinels is the way for cheap fasts still? Since rough riders are 100 for 5, right.

 ph34r wrote:
Right now my main issue for list writing is filling out fast attack and to a lesser degree elites choices… I can run myself up to 7 heavies no problem just taking heavy weapons, field ordnance, and a single russ. I guess sentinels is the way for cheap fasts still? Since rough riders are 100 for 5, right.

Both Sentinels and Rough Riders are very strong units so you should be fine with taking either or both.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TreeStewges wrote:
Just specifying how they’re mounted would solve the problem.

How they're mounted makes zero difference in 9th because you can shoot from any part of the model. If you want to put the lascannon in the left sponson, the first plasma cannon in the hull mount, and the second plasma cannon in the commander's arms (leaving the right sponson empty) feel free to do so, it won't make any difference from a rules point of view.

And I'm not sure what your confusion with the datasheet is? Like all 9th edition datasheets you pay the base price and then the additional price for any item you have on your unit that has a +X point cost. It doesn't matter if the lascannon was there by default or is something you selected to replace another weapon, you have it on your unit one time so you pay 1x the listed point cost in addition to the base price. You seem to be making the assumption that the base price includes some standard list of equipment but it doesn't. It's just the number you start adding other numbers to.

TreeStewges wrote:
To tneva82:

I’ll say it again, the initial codexes this edition were in line with each other, this gave it credence.

Ah yes. What has happened before as well is proof that THIS time it's different

Lol. Initially being in line and then starting to vary HAS HAPPENED LOADS OF TIME BEFORE!

There's literally no change to how things have gone before. Mid edition paragrim shift is well known GW thing...

Well. GW keeps doing same thing all the time. Keep on believing every time NOW it's different and they aren't just doing same thing they have been doing for decades.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me 10 times, shame on...?

There's literally nothing in 9e codex pattern that hasn't happened before. Repeatedly. Start about same, then suddenly change. That happens...every...single...edition. So why something that happens every single time gives credence to theory it is different now? That's like sun always rising from east gives credence to theory that TOMORROW it rises from the west.

TreeStewges wrote:

Weirdly, there is the generic Platoon Command Squad, Cadian and Tempestus Command Squads have their own entry but Catachan don’t.

They are also listed as discontinued on the GW site, possibly due to needing the base change?

Catachan, while restricted to flamers (dumb) but instead it says “for every 5 models one can have a flamer”.

That is the whole 'no model no rules' design constraint. ignores the fact the command squad box includes all the special weapons and the heavy weapon of course.

I wonder if they are re-releasing the command squad with new bases and an extra £10 cost they will do a white dwarf entry to add it and its options to match the box.

Has anyone mentioned the new aegis defensive line in the codex? There’s a pic and everything. (Not been in this thread much recently)

Andykp wrote:
Has anyone mentioned the new aegis defensive line in the codex? There’s a pic and everything. (Not been in this thread much recently)

Where? I've seen no picture.

It shows up quite a bit.

With regards to the Catachans...

I still am fully expecting we'll see some additional goodies for the Krieg and Catachans. I'm fully expecting a Command Squad, Heavy Weapon Team, Field Ordnance Battery crew figures, and some kind of signature unit (if not two of them!) for each.

Am expecting the same for Tallarn and Vostroyans next.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It shows up quite a bit.

With regards to the Catachans...

I still am fully expecting we'll see some additional goodies for the Krieg and Catachans. I'm fully expecting a Command Squad, Heavy Weapon Team, Field Ordnance Battery crew figures, and some kind of signature unit (if not two of them!) for each.

Am expecting the same for Tallarn and Vostroyans next.

I am too. Probably in mini-codexes over the next 2-3 years.

Thanks for the pic, I hadn't seen it yet. That's good news! I was in the middle of collecting a defense line last fall when they axed the models for it. Glad it's coming back!

Oh, I'm not expecting mini-codices. I'm expecting codex release schedules to get more aggressive or they'll start leaning more into things like White Dwarf supplements or Warhammer Plus giving access to them.