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Everyone at my FLGS, save for a select few devoted 40K players, has started playing WarmaHordes. Some of our most devoted 40K players have switched over to WarmaHordes. This is annoying me since I have been a devoted 40K player for going on 8 years now. Even one of our best 40K players refuses to play 40K and only wants to play WarmaHordes now.

This is seriously bothering me, especially as a serious 40K player, and because of all the money I spent on 40K. I'm not a big WarmaHordes fan either. I have an army but I find the game much less fun than 40K. Well, I was curious so I asked them what they didn't like about 40K. Their response? They believe that both 40K, and Fantasy, have gone down the proverbial toilet. They think that 8th edition Fantasy rules are pretty bad (I agree with them on this point I'm quitting Fantasy until 9th Edition comes out...or Bretonnians get a new codex). They believe that 40K's problem is the models.

They think that 40K's models are ugly and they say that WarmaHordes models are so much better. They think that 40K has become too cartoony. They referenced some of the new Dark Eldar and Grey Knight models and said that they think the models and sculpting have gone down hill. I disagree with them on this. While I think the new Grey Knight models are not as good as the old metal ones, I think they are still very nicely crafted models and sprues. I also think that Dark Eldar have some of the nicest models to come out yet.

They also mentioned how 5th edition 40K is broken. I don't wholly disagree on this, I think Mech Guard, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, and Spacewolves are incredibly broken. I also think some of the new models are rediculous. Stormraven, Vendetta, Voidraven Bombers, all of these models you would never see in 4th Edition. I personally think 4th Edition was the best. So anyway, I don't think 40K has gone down quite as far as they say it has and I am still very partial to Warhammer 40K and will continue to play it for many years to come. It just bothered me what they said, and their comments are still lingering in my head.

So Dakka what have you to say?

I find it ironic that people who play Warmachine think 40k models are ugly and cartoony. Also, anyone who thinks the Dark Eldar models are bad is objectively wrong.

I'm guessing these players just want to try a different game. It doesn't have as much to do with 40k as a system as it has to do with being tired of game X and wanting to try something new.

5th ed 40k isn't broken. Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights aren't broken either. They have effective builds but they die the same as any other Marines. Mechanized Guard happen to be very good at what the recent metagame is all about: mobility and meltaguns. Even so, they're dead in killpoints games and a bunch of AV12 vehicles and T3 dudes inside aren't hard to kill. They're effective, but I wouldn't say they're broken by any stretch of the imagination.

As I said, a lot of this is probably them getting tired of a game they've been playing for years on end. They just want a change for a while.

Brother SRM wrote:I find it ironic that people who play Warmachine think 40k models are ugly and cartoony.

I don't. Yes, the weapons and shoulder pads are huge, but the proportions are massively better than GW's figure. No hydrocephalic heads with hamfists in the Iron Kingdoms.

No skeletal horses with bone tails being ridden by skeletal systems that wouldn't fit inside the average human, either.

Sounds like the guys at your FLGS just got burnt out on 40k and decided to play Warmahordes for awhile. They'll be back they always comeback.

I started to get into Warmachine because I was getting bored with 40K, but then the Warmahordes fad came and went before I ever got my force painted. I refuse to constantly spend money on whatever the new fad is just to have a game to play. Perhaps I'll go back to drinking and fighting like when I was young.

Brother SRM said:I find it ironic that people who play Warmachine think 40K models are ugly and cartoony. Also, anyone who thinks the Dark Eldar models are bad is objectively wrong.

I wholeheartedly agree on this statement. I think the Dark Eldar models are some of the best models yet!

Platuan4th said: I don't. Yes, the weapons and shoulder pads are huge, but the proportions are massively better than GW's figure. No hydrocephalic heads with hamfists in the Iron Kingdoms.

No skeletal horses with bone tails being ridden by skeletal systems that wouldn't fit inside the average human, either.

I don't think I understand what your saying. I think what you mean is that the models are not proportional? I think the GW models are very proportional, Guard, and especially DE models are very well sculpted and look like normal people. Yes I will agree that the space marine models, especially the regular Tactical Squad Marines can be a bit...oversized. However, I think you should look at the troll models in Warmachine, they look downright unnatural!

Huckleberry said: Sounds like the guys are your FLGS just got burnt our on 40K and decided to play Warmahordes for awhile. They'll be back they always comeback.

I hope your right man, I hope your right. The one still plays 40K and actually I played him in a game today, but the rest of the day he played WarmaHordes and the other people there all love it. The one player, who is one of our best, says he thinks WarmaHordes is more "strategic" than 40K.

I think WarmaHordes is, as one guy at my FLGS (who hates WarmaHordes) put it, Marvel vs. Capcom. It's Magic meets Warhammer Fantasy. It's a game of who can pull out more combos than anyone else and I find that less strategic than 40K. In my opinion of course.

They'll be back. I swore off 40k in 2007 when the terrible, and unfortunately still in use, Chaos Space Marine came out and destroyed my Iron Warriors. But I never stopped reading Black Library Novels and when the Salamander novels started coming out I decided to dust off my Sallies and get back in the game. Luckily I discovered that my Sallies had gone from an army of Initiative 3 Marines, to the one of the most competitive armies in the game.
Good stuff.

I still refuse to field either of my two Chaos Space Marine armies until they get a new codex, but i'm having alot of fun with my Sallies and my Orks.

They always come back!!

(Not really... but probably )


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hückleberry wrote:Sounds like the guys at your FLGS just got burnt out on 40k and decided to play Warmahordes for awhile. They'll be back they always comeback.

I agree

Sanguinis wrote:Proportional models, comments on Warmachine, etc.

As much as I do love GW models - their proportions are very much out whack. The average man is 7 and a half heads tall or so, while a Guardsman is about 4.5. They exaggerate points of interest like faces and weapons, which almost all miniatures have and do. Warmahordes models do this as well. The idea that Warmachine is more like Magic is very true though; it's very much about combo plays. That's cool if that's what you're into, but nothing about PP games really appeals to me.

40k has gone down the toilet?, no no no, games workshop in general has gone down the toilet, and started doing so long long ago, every single system that was good they dumped, every system thats bad they make worse and worse and worse, how they treat customers gets worse, there attitude to everything related to them in general is awful.

but going by 40k alone, then sure its gone down the toilet
models keep getting worse, they are either too static nowadays or just far too busy to look good because they are covered in trash

the rules keep getting worse, each codex being more shiny than the last to make more sales with no thought as to game balance or playtesting more than once at best

the players are getting far worse, the bunch of jerks into 40k and GW in general is far higher now than it ever use to be, its no longer about playing with toys, its all about who can be the bigger jerk.

the fluff as we know is tripe now, sure there are plenty of moronic blind fools who happily follow matt ward and lick his boots at every step hoping to get his attention on the next codex and let tyranids ally with dark angels against an eldar squat alliance while slaughtering Tau women to bathe in the blood, but thankfully it seems most people over the age of 5 know that he is a pathetic excuse for a man who shouldn't be allowed to hold a pen, or even speak.

but then to say warmahordes is better than 40k?, well sure ok if you wanna play a system that encourages you to be a crying baby jerk and pay what feels like millions of pounds for an ill-fitting steam driven dreadnought directed by librarians then go ahead, GW may be stupid, condescending and evil, but at least its not warmachine...or flames of awfullness

Stella Cadente wrote:words

Okay, so every game everywhere is horrible forever. Thanks for letting us know; I'm going to go watch paint dry because it is literally all there is to do since gaming is the worst hobby ever.

Just on the proportion of the models that a few people have mentioned, GW have never made any bones about the fact that they're not in proportion and why. Some things have to be exaggerated to be seen or they'd be lost like some of the weapons, other things like vehicles need to be smaller or they'd dominate the whole map.

I luvs 40k lots, but know a good few people who have cracked the proverbials with GW and are either taking an extended break or not playing at all anymore. These guys generally haven't gone to Warmahordes but to Dystopia.

Stella Cadente wrote:40k has gone down the toilet?, no no no, games workshop in general has gone down the toilet, and started doing so long long ago, every single system that was good they dumped, every system thats bad they make worse and worse and worse, how they treat customers gets worse, there attitude to everything related to them in general is awful.

but going by 40k alone, then sure its gone down the toilet
models keep getting worse, they are either too static nowadays or just far too busy to look good because they are covered in trash

the rules keep getting worse, each codex being more shiny than the last to make more sales with no thought as to game balance or playtesting more than once at best

the players are getting far worse, the bunch of jerks into 40k and GW in general is far higher now than it ever use to be, its no longer about playing with toys, its all about who can be the bigger jerk.

the fluff as we know is tripe now, sure there are plenty of moronic blind fools who happily follow matt ward and lick his boots at every step hoping to get his attention on the next codex and let tyranids ally with dark angels against an eldar squat alliance while slaughtering Tau women to bathe in the blood, but thankfully it seems most people over the age of 5 know that he is a pathetic excuse for a man who shouldn't be allowed to hold a pen, or even speak.

but then to say warmahordes is better than 40k?, well sure ok if you wanna play a system that encourages you to be a crying baby jerk and pay what feels like millions of pounds for an ill-fitting steam driven dreadnought directed by librarians then go ahead, GW may be stupid, condescending and evil, but at least its not warmachine...or flames of awfullness

Lololol that was a good one. Matt Ward personally bashed down your door, stomped your dog to death, and MADE you keep playing tabletop wargames didn't he?

I think dakka must represent an unusually large percentage of the masochist community; seriously how many people are out there being made to continue playing this game at gunpoint and post incessantly about how painful it is? Does it just hurt so good to hate your hobby this much?

Ghyslain Xaroit wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:40k has gone down the toilet?, no no no, games workshop in general has gone down the toilet, and started doing so long long ago, every single system that was good they dumped, every system thats bad they make worse and worse and worse, how they treat customers gets worse, there attitude to everything related to them in general is awful.

but going by 40k alone, then sure its gone down the toilet
models keep getting worse, they are either too static nowadays or just far too busy to look good because they are covered in trash

the rules keep getting worse, each codex being more shiny than the last to make more sales with no thought as to game balance or playtesting more than once at best

the players are getting far worse, the bunch of jerks into 40k and GW in general is far higher now than it ever use to be, its no longer about playing with toys, its all about who can be the bigger jerk.

the fluff as we know is tripe now, sure there are plenty of moronic blind fools who happily follow matt ward and lick his boots at every step hoping to get his attention on the next codex and let tyranids ally with dark angels against an eldar squat alliance while slaughtering Tau women to bathe in the blood, but thankfully it seems most people over the age of 5 know that he is a pathetic excuse for a man who shouldn't be allowed to hold a pen, or even speak.

but then to say warmahordes is better than 40k?, well sure ok if you wanna play a system that encourages you to be a crying baby jerk and pay what feels like millions of pounds for an ill-fitting steam driven dreadnought directed by librarians then go ahead, GW may be stupid, condescending and evil, but at least its not warmachine...or flames of awfullness

Lololol that was a good one. Matt Ward personally bashed down your door, stomped your dog to death, and MADE you keep playing tabletop wargames didn't he?

I think dakka must represent an unusually large percentage of the masochist community; seriously how many people are out there being made to continue playing this game at gunpoint and post incessantly about how painful it is? Does it just hurt so good to hate your hobby this much?

It must be wonderful to live in a fabulous country where only your opinion can possibly be right. If you can't stand the complaining, get out of the internet.

warpcrafter wrote:It must be wonderful to live in a fabulous country where only your opinion can possibly be right. If you can't stand the complaining, get out of the internet.

No need to bash the guy when all he is merely getting at is if you hate the game so much why do you keep playing it? Seriously, if I hated 40k why would I play it? It seems like some people on here play simply to hate on it more.

I actually don't mind the people who leave because warmahords is a more tournament friendly game. Now I can get back to modeling my army to look cool and having fun at big events without hearing 5 tables of people arguing about if Blood angel Rhinos have doors or not (you old school players will know what i'm talking about). I remember when people fled from MTG and came sulking back after a year or so.

warpcrafter wrote:

It must be wonderful to live in a fabulous country where only your opinion can possibly be right. If you can't stand the complaining, get out of the internet.

It actually is! Beautiful scenery, and I'm always right!

And I can stand the complaining quite well. I wasn't complaining about the complaining, I was laughing at it. You should try it some time, its fun! We do it alot in my country.

Brother SRM wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:words

since gaming is the worst hobby ever.

yes thats exactly what I said, "gaming is the worst hobby ever" is exactly the thing my message was saying because GW are the ONLY gaming company that exists obviously, so to dislike tham means you dislike gaming in all forms...........

personal comments removed.

Stella Cadente wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:words

since gaming is the worst hobby ever.

yes thats exactly what I said, "gaming is the worst hobby ever" is exactly the thing my message was saying because GW are the ONLY gaming company that exists obviously, so to dislike tham means you dislike gaming in all forms..........

Ooh, personal insults; classy! I'm very happy to have you on my ignore list I just don't understand why someone would come to a primarily 40k/GW forum just to bitch about GW games and one of their more popular alternatives in Warmachine/hordes.

Also, there's only three periods in an ellipses.

40k has not gone down the toilet. Teetering on the seat, maybe, but not in. I suspect that some of the people who think Warmachine or Hordes are flat out better are looking at the issue with biased glasses. They have full right to their opinion, though.

@model proportions: For those who don't know, Games Workshop do that on purpose. it's called Heroic scale. Personally I like it, and people who want a "realistic" scale on a small model are in the same camp as the people who thing games look better with a brown filter and bloom.

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warpcrafter wrote:I started to get into Warmachine because I was getting bored with 40K, but then the Warmahordes fad came and went before I ever got my force painted. I refuse to constantly spend money on whatever the new fad is just to have a game to play. Perhaps I'll go back to drinking and fighting like when I was young.

+1

Sanguinis wrote: I think the GW models are very proportional, Guard, and especially DE models are very well sculpted and look like normal people.

You've been playing GW far too long if you think that GW models are well proportioned. The DE aren't bad but cadians are awful. Heads are way too big, guns are enormous, legs are short and chunky.

That's not to say that it doesn't work on the tabletop - in particular, the gigantic guns makes identifying weapons much easier - but they certainly are not well proportioned.

Compare this cadian (who is looking better proportioned than usual thanks to a smaller head) against a Dust Tactics mini. The difference in height vs width is huge.

I think 40k is getting better and better actually. 5th edition is, IMHO, a great rules set thanks to its varied and balanced missions. Things like cover and wound allocation can be tweeked but that is not what defines 5th edition to me.

As for the codex creep, its not bad really. Every 5th ed codex is decent at least... the worst power level wise is tyranids I think, but a poor FAQ was really the straw that broke that camel's back. Spacewolves are perhaps the best on a cursory examination, but only because longfangs, greyhunters, and priests are all individually very efficient. The wolves are actually a bad army for force multipliers, and with proper force multipliers an enemy can take away the wolves advantage of efficiency.

You hate 8th Edition Fantasy?


What the hell?

Sanguinis wrote:Everyone at my FLGS, save for a select few devoted 40K players, has started playing WarmaHordes.

PLAY LIKE YOU'VE GOT A PAIR!

But seriously, 5th ed isn't perfect but it is a solid game system. And GW models looking bad? Sure the Dreadknight looks stupid, but so does practically every model for Warmachine. Derp I'm a dreadnought... with steam! And cogs! Or if you play Cygnar you just have lightning crap all over your units.

Tell them if they're going to play a skirmish game to at least play Malifaux...unless you like to PLAY LIKE YOU'VE GOT A PAIR! (I can't believe they wrote that in the freaking rulebook).

Warmahordes 'Play like you got a pair' had to get changed right? 'Play like you got a pair but stop acting like jerks and using this sentence to try and validate your poor sportsmanship you morons' is how it reads now in the new rulebook right?

the fluff as we know is tripe now, sure there are plenty of moronic blind fools who happily follow matt ward and lick his boots at every step hoping to get his attention on the next codex and let tyranids ally with dark angels against an eldar squat alliance while slaughtering Tau women to bathe in the blood, but thankfully it seems most people over the age of 5 know that he is a pathetic excuse for a man who shouldn't be allowed to hold a pen, or even speak.

Wow, how's the ride on the Bandwagon?

I dunno about this proportion thing I think superman robot suits should be based of propper superman robot suits and I've seen an ork before those teeth are too sharp. Also lasrifles what the front door? they should be a little shorter in the front and longer in the back. Derp durp.

Comic book characters aren't 100% proportionate. Why? 'Cause proper proportions are boring. (Even the 7 or 8 head high thing is off and taught on purpose because fudged proportions look better so they teach proportion wrong so its built in to exaggerate). Also proportion does differ from person to person if you wanna be exact. Anyway look at a picture of Arnold schwartsanegger then look at a comic picture of wolverine. wolverine looks cooler he's also not real. If your friends are splitting hairs over game model proportions they need to pursue a career in law or some similar humorless profession.

I did look at warma shrug. I think they're character design is lackin for sets of three or four guys. And as for 40k models man 15 ish years ago (yeesh) they've come along way. Didnt paint back then but spent a lot (understatement) of time in a comic shop that sold 40k kits. Shrug I like the 40k character design of pretty much everything at the moment except that new grey knight 'naught. That thing is a bit too,.. delicate? DE 's remind me of the hellraiser movies.


better?!

You know, Noztrill, you might try breaking that up in to... something a bit smaller, perhaps.

On the other side, my FLGS no longer does 40k at all. They stopped carrying it. Bizarrely, we do, still have Battlefleet Gothic...

Eh, did that from an ipod, I didn't realized I babbled so long.