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Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


You can be sure GW's accountants, lawyers, web designers and factory techs are properly paid, it's a shame their rules writers aren't held in the same esteem.


You would seem to be wrong. A few people on twitter and elsewhere chimed in from the various non-studio functions basically saying the pay was gak in other departments as well - IT is one that comes to mind.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

only the outsourced IT gets properly (over) paid, their in house team is well below normal levels (from folk I know who had offers but didn't think its realistic), and i'm fairly certain the lower level factory techs are in the same position

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 12:19:44


 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
only the outsourced IT gets properly (over) paid, their in house team is well below normal levels (from folk I know who had offers but didn't think its realistic), and i'm fairly certain the lower level factory techs are in the same position


Well, no surprise there considering the the previous CEO handed the contract to make the new website to his wife's company, if I remember correctly. Might have just been a company they owned stock in, but they definitely had financial links to it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 13:02:23


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
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[MOD]
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

Hey all, if we can get back on the Old World, it would help keep the thread on track, thanks!

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
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deleted due to seeing message above.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 13:50:50


 
   
Made in pl
Tunneling Trygon





 Dreamchild wrote:
Would anyone be so kind as to link the GW salary discussion here? I can't seem to find it on any other sub-forums.
Here you have the link but as mods suggest please take any discussion there not here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/799950.page
   
Made in eg
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Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
deleted due to seeing message above.


Good move, plenty of room to discuss pay here:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/799950.page

 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Cronch wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
they don't incentivize having half your army in one unit

Really all they'd have to do is publish missions with multiple objectives.

Of course, then the player base would have to actually use those missions instead of battle line/the watchtower, which... I don't think I've ever heard of!

It's not a real Old World experience if you don't have two mirrored hills in the deployment zones, one forest in the center and the goal is to kill as many models as possible

But yes, to get round the core tax all you have to do is make core interesting, but that'd make them too Superhero-y.


LOL! Yep, those two hills better come along in the starter box.
   
Made in us
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[Jǫtunn]






.

After the recent revelations of square bases (for sure!) and 'use your old armies' and 'build new armies'...combined with some sort of system that is from 3rd edition to 8th edition...

I'm struggling to see how this is going to succeed and survive, given what the cost of a ranked up army will be from GW.

Maybe GW will have (relatively speaking) good value starter boxes for blocks of line troops...?

Maybe?

   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





So given that the predominant theme keeps going back to ranked up armies cost a ton compared to AOS, which I haven't seen to be true at all...

the cost of a ranked up game from GW will be roughly equal to the cost of what it takes to play AOS.

Based on the fact that model count in 2000 points of whfb is roughly similar to model counts of AOS at 2000 points.

The difference is that in 8th edition whfb steadfast made people build mega blocks of the same troop in one mammoth sized sumo block to belly slap with their opponent in the middle of the table.

But the cost in money of building a mega blob of 80 guys is roughly the same as the cost of building a roughly 80 model AOS army.

* my definition of roughly being +/- $150/$200 or so. I have some AOS armies that (after adjusting to current prices) cost MORE than my whfb forces.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

the cost will not be different from a 2k AoS or 40k Army as the amount of models needed is not different between the old Warhammer and new AoS

and compared to what prices people are willing to pay for new Necromunda plastic I don't think that this will be an issue

if people are willing to pay 1000€ for a 40k army, why should this not work for a classic Fantasy Army

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
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Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

Consumer perception plays too big a part to dismiss it as “that thing everyone believes is wrong; surely it won’t affect their purchasing habits.”

   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





While true, its also not good to let misinformation just keep continuing to be repeated as people also tend to not want to research things themselves and will dismiss the game outright because they are told its more expensive to play rank and file than it is to play AOS ... which up to this point is not true.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




All of it is guesswork, though (in my opinion only) AoS has the advantage that small squads work just as well as large blobs whereas in RnF games 30-40 model blobs have obvious advantage.

Even if the armies cost the same, the lack of variety (If it sticks to WHFB mold of army building), both in terms of gameplay and visually, and the chore of painting/gluing the same models 2-3 times just to make a regiment might not be that popular.

I firmly believe GW will try to do something about it, and we'll see less focus on Core units than before.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 19:42:06


 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

up to until GW releases TOW, in fact playing R&F cost less as playing AOS

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





Cronch wrote:
All of it is guesswork, though (in my opinion only) AoS has the advantage that small squads work just as well as large blobs whereas in RnF games 30-40 model blobs have obvious advantage.

Even if the armies cost the same, the lack of variety (If it sticks to WHFB mold of army building), both in terms of gameplay and visually, and the chore of painting/gluing the same models 2-3 times just to make a regiment might not be that popular.

I firmly believe GW will try to do something about it, and we'll see less focus on Core units than before.


Thats also not really true. 7th edition was MSU edition. It was full of checkerboarded minimal sized units. It depends on the RnF game. 30-40 model blobs were largely a waste in 5th, 6th, and 7th edition. There were always optimal sizes but 30-40 model units were very rare outside of goblin or skaven armies.

Even if the armies cost the same, the lack of variety (If it sticks to WHFB mold of army building), both in terms of gameplay and visually, and the chore of painting/gluing the same models 2-3 times just to make a regiment might not be that popular.


Also not true outside of 8th edition building mega blobs.

My tournament Vampire Counts 6th edition army roughly (2000 pts)
4 vampire characters
2 units of five black knights
2 units of 5 dire wolves
1 unit of 20 grave guard
1 unit of 24 zombies
1 unit of 10 ghouls
1 black coach
1 banshee

Total model count: 80 break down of: 4 vampires, 1 banshee, 1 coach, 10 knights, 10 wolves, 20 grave guard, 24 zombies, 10 ghouls

My slaanesh army for AOS
1 keepers of secrets
1 harp player
1 slaanesh hero
1 demon prince
5 units of 10 daemonettes
2 chariots
2 units of seeker cavalry x5 each

Total model count: 66 break down of: 1 greater demon, 1 demon prince, 2 heroes, 50 daemonettes, 2 chariots, 10 demonic cavalry

The diversity and unit sizes - pretty similar. Note 50 daemonettes in my army. There aren't really a lot of core troops in AOS. In 8th edition of course that would be one unit of 50 daemonettes as opposed to 5 units of 10.
The painting and modeling and buying are similar.

RnF games can be and often as diverse as anything else.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 20:02:42


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




My 6th to 7th ed list was

Slann
Saurus oldblood/scar vet (it's been 15 years since I ran it last...)
skink shaman

2x10 skinks for screen
2x30 saurus warriors (I think it was 3x20 in 6th and 2x30 in 7th due to the changed rank bonus from 4 to 5)
5 saurus cav
stegadon
3 terradons
1 salamander

The list was by no means optimal, but it was what a kid like me could afford back then, and it was a wild mix of 5th and 6th edition models.

I'm not going to say that I was the model customer back then, but I imagine more people were like me, fielding whatever they happened to collect, than people running optimized lists that they could re-build whenever meta changed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 20:10:47


 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

30-40 model blocks are rare in most R&F games in 28mm

Kings of War, 15-20 models for regiments (larger Hordes with 40 models possible)

Napoleonics, 24 models for standard sized regiments (larger regiments with 36 models possible)

ACW, 20-30 models per regiment

aSoIaF, 12 models for regiments

it was just 8th Edi Fantasy that made them common
hence in games modeled after those rules, like The 9th Age, 30-40 model blocks are there as well

in 7th, I had 1 unit of 28 models in my dwarf army, the others were smaller
my Empire Army had several with 24 models but none with 30

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 20:10:46


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
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Are people really arguing that WHFB armies lacked diversity when most Ossiarch lists comprise of spamming blocks of 20+ Mortek Guard, Lumineth are about cramming as many Sentinels/Wardens onto the board as you can, Fyreslayers consist entirely of naked dwarf infantry except two Heroes and Flesheater Courts- well, just, Flesheater Courts?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 20:12:25


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 kodos wrote:
30-40 model blocks are rare in most R&F games in 28mm

Kings of War, 15-20 models for regiments (larger Hordes with 40 models possible)

Napoleonics, 24 models for standard sized regiments (larger regiments with 36 models possible)

ACW, 20-30 models per regiment

aSoIaF, 12 models for regiments

it was just 8th Edi Fantasy that made them common
hence in games modeled after those rules, like The 9th Age, 30-40 model blocks are there as well

in 7th, I had 1 unit of 28 models in my dwarf army, the others were smaller
my Empire Army had several with 24 models but none with 30

Which is a terrible convention.
Blocks of 40 28mm models does not look good on the table top. It's just way too large of a foot print.
To me, units in WHFB looked and felt better at 20 models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Arbitrator wrote:
Are people really arguing that WHFB armies lacked diversity when most Ossiarch lists comprise of spamming blocks of 20+ Mortek Guard, Lumineth are about cramming as many Sentinels/Wardens onto the board as you can, Fyreslayers consist entirely of naked dwarf infantry except two Heroes and Flesheater Courts- well, just, Flesheater Courts?

To be fair, that was true of 8th ed, where it was encouraged to take a single massive block of your most cost effective infantry, a caster and a couple of supporting units.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/27 20:15:40


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
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[Jǫtunn]






.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 kodos wrote:
30-40 model blocks are rare in most R&F games in 28mm

Kings of War, 15-20 models for regiments (larger Hordes with 40 models possible)

Napoleonics, 24 models for standard sized regiments (larger regiments with 36 models possible)

ACW, 20-30 models per regiment

aSoIaF, 12 models for regiments

it was just 8th Edi Fantasy that made them common
hence in games modeled after those rules, like The 9th Age, 30-40 model blocks are there as well

in 7th, I had 1 unit of 28 models in my dwarf army, the others were smaller
my Empire Army had several with 24 models but none with 30

Which is a terrible convention.
Blocks of 40 28mm models does not look good on the table top. It's just way too large of a foot print.
To me, units in WHFB looked and felt better at 20 models.


Agreed!

Hopefully a 'standard' infantry block will be in the 20 to 30 range.

With heroes, war machines, wizards and monsters, maybe it won't be...too bad?

I still find myself looking forward to it - given what GW *can* (but often does *not*) do with their plastics, it really could be fantastic!

   
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I'd like a reason to buy their models again. I loved hobbying on them. I just wont buy models I have no use for.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Which is a terrible convention.
Blocks of 40 28mm models does not look good on the table top. It's just way too large of a foot print.
To me, units in WHFB looked and felt better at 20 models..

Me too and this was one reason why I never got into 8th

the possibility to field several blocks of 20 models and those are not just "chaff" or extra wounds for the Hero is what I want to see

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Id like to see a standard of 20 for chaff and 12 for elites. Blocks of 40, as said by numerous other postere, is way too much

lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Friends and I have returned to warmaster after decades of not playing.

Cannot stress enough what a fantastic rule set it is. 40k and AoS are just a chore to play - transporting tons of models, costs of thousands of dollars, gibberish rules spiralling through a vortex of poorly written, misspelled, and expensive wastes of paper.

The rank and flank system works well. I highly recommend diving back in while we wait to see just how maddeningly expensive GW will make the return of the Old World.
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





Warmaster was amazing I love it.

For model sizes I'd prefer 20 be the normal unit. 25 be a big normal unit. 30-40 be like goblins and 15-20 be elites.

   
Made in hu
Crazed Troll Slayer






 Alpharius wrote:
After the recent revelations of square bases (for sure!) and 'use your old armies' and 'build new armies'...combined with some sort of system that is from 3rd edition to 8th edition...

I'm struggling to see how this is going to succeed and survive, given what the cost of a ranked up army will be from GW.



New shinny factions on the block. We know for sure the Kislev is going to be released. We can also count on 90%-sh, that Bretonnia will have an update, I would be happy. but suprised, if it wouldnt.

 Alpharius wrote:

Maybe GW will have (relatively speaking) good value starter boxes for blocks of line troops...?


Most likely there will be a FOMO box like Dominion and Indomitus at launch and then they will cut up to 3 separate boxes. I am not expecting another "Battle for the Skull Pass" / "Island of Blood" type of starter.

   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sorry, I rather see this as a true army for rank and files :



Yes, it takes time to build and paint (and money) but that's what rank and files armies really shine as from my point of view. I see it as the Saint Graal to have such a result. It looks simply awesome on the table.

Sure, you can always enjoy Battle in its "skirmish version" with units of 15-20 soldiers and think that's an army, but to me, I never thought it looked good. Same for Kings of War armies with minimal model count per unit. Purely a question of visual to me.


I want to do the same games as this one :



Oh yes, that's the stuff you'll keep remembering for the rest of your life.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/27 22:45:45


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

So play at high points levels

8th Edition starved itself of new blood and alienated a lot of old customers at the same time

Old World Prediction: The Empire will have Clockwork Paragon Warsuits 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Sarouan wrote:
Sorry, I rather see this as a true army for rank and files :



Yes, it takes time to build and paint (and money) but that's what rank and files armies really shine as from my point of view. I see it as the Saint Graal to have such a result. It looks simply awesome on the table.

Sure, you can always enjoy Battle in its "skirmish version" with units of 15-20 soldiers and think that's an army, but to me, I never thought it looked good. Same for Kings of War armies with minimal model count per unit. Purely a question of visual to me.


I want to do the same games as this one :



Oh yes, that's the stuff you'll keep remembering for the rest of your life.


Awesome stuff!
Beautiful army
   
 
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