Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Dudeface wrote:


If they just wanted a buff toggle switch they shouldn't be tying it to a fluff based concept.

So you're annoyed that they've gone for a mildly fluffy naming convention for a game mechanic instead of just rolling with "Buffable Unit" as a keyword. Okay, that would have been infinitely crappier, but I suppose that's a subjective opinion.

Before you start arguing fluff for CORE units, try explaining why three the guys in this picture are CORE and two are not:



Why do DC have the CORE keyword? Because GW wants them to benefit from auras and certain other rules.
Why do Wulfen not have the CORE keyword? Because GW does not want them to benefit from auras and certain other rules.

That's all.

I think the whole core thing is just GW are very sloppy and trying to make it sound " cool " and then make it seem like it makes sense from a fluff point of view. However, they should have just said " This is here to control what units can use auras and the like so we can limit over powered or problematic combinations somewhat. "

It wouldn't have sounded as cool, but it would have been much more accurate to its seemingly obvious intent.

 Jidmah wrote:
Before you start arguing fluff for CORE units, try explaining why three the guys in this picture are CORE and two are not:

Spoiler:

Why do DC have the CORE keyword? Because GW wants them to benefit from auras and certain other rules.
Why do Wulfen not have the CORE keyword? Because GW does not want them to benefit from auras and certain other rules.

That's all.

I'll give it a go:

3 of them are a unit of line-holding infantry that will regularly receive aid and orders from their leaders to increase their efficiency. The other two are characters which are not directly holding the line and not likely to be receiving direct orders (from themselves oddly enough) to increase their combat efficiency.

It's obviously a slightly murky grey area.

I'm just looking forwards to when units like cultists aren't core to limit buffs despite being the only troops seen for an army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
I think the whole core thing is just GW are very sloppy and trying to make it sound " cool " and then make it seem like it makes sense from a fluff point of view. However, they should have just said " This is here to control what units can use auras and the like so we can limit over powered or problematic combinations somewhat. "

It wouldn't have sounded as cool, but it would have been much more accurate to its seemingly obvious intent.

This sums it up really.

I don';t have an issue with death company having Core, but at the same time if they didn't have it I'd be fine with that.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
" This is here to control what units can use auras and the like so we can limit over powered or problematic combinations somewhat. "

They could make it a bit more concise though. Something snappier, less of a mouthfull. A shorthand, does the same job, but something very abreviated. Like "Primary", or something analogous, doesn't really matter what they use.

Or maybe it does

JWBS wrote:

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
" This is here to control what units can use auras and the like so we can limit over powered or problematic combinations somewhat. "

They could make it a bit more concise though. Something snappier, less of a mouthfull. A shorthand, does the same job, but something very abreviated. Like "Primary", or something analogous, doesn't really matter what they use.

Or maybe it does

This unit is "gak" all units with the "gak" keyword do not receive aura buffs.

Hey Timmy, your new tank got rerolls?

Nah it's gak.

In coding, tagging negatives is an anti-pattern

Explicit and implicit effects and all that...

Dudeface wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
" This is here to control what units can use auras and the like so we can limit over powered or problematic combinations somewhat. "

They could make it a bit more concise though. Something snappier, less of a mouthfull. A shorthand, does the same job, but something very abreviated. Like "Primary", or something analogous, doesn't really matter what they use.

Or maybe it does

This unit is "gak" all units with the "gak" keyword do not receive aura buffs.

Hey Timmy, your new tank got rerolls?

Nah it's gak.

Very accurate and haven't we all been there before ?

Core units can also be erratad.

If GW get feedback that Army A is struggling, because their Core buffs overly limit what combinations make strategic sense, they can add that Core keyword to other, select units.

And the exact opposite. If the feedback they get that a primarily narrative intent rule is making certain forces overly flexible and potent? They can errata the problem away.

Yes, that's the spirit

Any unit entry with a (Fist of Power) is worthy of consideration. Anything without Fist of Power, disregard.

BrianDavion wrote:
I don';t have an issue with death company having Core, but at the same time if they didn't have it I'd be fine with that.

If them having CORE as a keyword means that Chaplains don't have to be rewritten in order to work with them, that makes enough sense to me.

I guess you could have given them a special rule where they count as having CORE for the purposes of abilities possessed by units X, Y and Z, but that also seems like more of a hassle than just giving them the keyword.

 Dysartes wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I don';t have an issue with death company having Core, but at the same time if they didn't have it I'd be fine with that.

If them having CORE as a keyword means that Chaplains don't have to be rewritten in order to work with them, that makes enough sense to me.

I guess you could have given them a special rule where they count as having CORE for the purposes of abilities possessed by units X, Y and Z, but that also seems like more of a hassle than just giving them the keyword.

Just have a line in the supplement: for Blood Angels and successors, Litanies also apply to all non-character <death company> units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just going to leave this here:

bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367879-blood-angel-codex-leak/

JWBS wrote:
As has already been pointed out, Core is just a buff management mechanic. By arguing that DC shouldn't be core, you're literally just saying that DC should be buff-gimped, or have a distinct buff system because, reasons. Why are you arguing this?

If Flayed Ones and Destroyers should be hampered fluffwise, so should Death Company. Consistency is key.

 Dysartes wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I don';t have an issue with death company having Core, but at the same time if they didn't have it I'd be fine with that.

If them having CORE as a keyword means that Chaplains don't have to be rewritten in order to work with them, that makes enough sense to me.

I guess you could have given them a special rule where they count as having CORE for the purposes of abilities possessed by units X, Y and Z, but that also seems like more of a hassle than just giving them the keyword.

No, you give chaplains the ability to buff <Death Company> units. Its very straightforward.

Given that DC can't take actions, and are largely uncontrolled rage monsters, not having Core makes perfect sense.
They're even more limited in what they can do than the necron rage monsters (flayed ones and destroyers).

Article for the non-Khornate chapter, Flesh Tearers: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/26/how-new-rules-make-the-flesh-tearers-even-more-terrifying/



And new relic too, if Terminator captain is too slow:

Damn shame they haven't painted up any Primaris for these yet.

JWBS wrote:
Damn shame they haven't painted up any Primaris for these yet.

I believe I saw a Bladeguard painted in Flesh Tearers colours in the leak.

It would have made more sense to not have Core on the Death Company, but given a model or two (like a specific subset of Chaplain) an aura to boost Death Company.

In essence, "They don't listen to orders normally, but this guy waving a blood chalice around can get them to at least hit the right thing."

looking like a pattern with the Daemon Engines and BS/WS 3!

Wakshaani wrote:
It would have made more sense to not have Core on the Death Company, but given a model or two (like a specific subset of Chaplain) an aura to boost Death Company.

In essence, "They don't listen to orders normally, but this guy waving a blood chalice around can get them to at least hit the right thing."

Agree. It's not like Necrons don't have buff that work on, say, Destroyer Cult stuff specifically, despite them not being Core. They already have the Death Company keyword to begin with ... so use it!

 Sasori wrote:
looking like a pattern with the Daemon Engines and BS/WS 3!

i hope they will update the engines for all chaos factions at DG release

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
It would have made more sense to not have Core on the Death Company, but given a model or two (like a specific subset of Chaplain) an aura to boost Death Company.

In essence, "They don't listen to orders normally, but this guy waving a blood chalice around can get them to at least hit the right thing."

Agree. It's not like Necrons don't have buff that work on, say, Destroyer Cult stuff specifically, despite them not being Core. They already have the Death Company keyword to begin with ... so use it!

Again, that would mean DC dreadnought and characters would also benefit from those buffs, and GW clearly didn't want them to have access to prayers or rerolls.

LOL.. Lets just bake fight twice into smash captain character. Totaly balanced.. All good.

 Argive wrote:
LOL.. Lets just bake fight twice into smash captain character. Totaly balanced.. All good.

Ehh, it locks you into flesh tearers, he's not primaris and he's pretty slow for a smash captain. It's a good ability, but it's only available on him so I would not be that concerned with it to be honest.

Now, if this was something any smash captain could take, there would be issues.

 Laughing Man wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
It would have made more sense to not have Core on the Death Company, but given a model or two (like a specific subset of Chaplain) an aura to boost Death Company.

In essence, "They don't listen to orders normally, but this guy waving a blood chalice around can get them to at least hit the right thing."

Agree. It's not like Necrons don't have buff that work on, say, Destroyer Cult stuff specifically, despite them not being Core. They already have the Death Company keyword to begin with ... so use it!

Again, that would mean DC dreadnought and characters would also benefit from those buffs, and GW clearly didn't want them to have access to prayers or rerolls.

Applies to none character death company infantry. Done.

Thats some fine looking Flesh Tearer art

 Sasori wrote:

 Argive wrote:
LOL.. Lets just bake fight twice into smash captain character. Totaly balanced.. All good.

Ehh, it locks you into flesh tearers, he's not primaris and he's pretty slow for a smash captain. It's a good ability, but it's only available on him so I would not be that concerned with it to be honest.

Now, if this was something any smash captain could take, there would be issues.

Perhaps.. Perhaps not.
Jumping out of drop pods t1 for non primaris units is a thing..

Dudeface wrote:
Applies to none character death company infantry. Done.

Or, instead of having to add a line to Chaplains by an easily missed addition in the BA codex that would have to be changed by any new DC units or errata that changes what's Core, we could just, you know, give Death Company the Core keyword.

Also, this solution makes DC eligible for self-only prayers.

Do we really have people complaining about frickin Gabriel fighting twice?