Wayland Games' Response to GW's New Policy

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**infinite_array**

Here it is, folks:

Hello Wargames fans!

We'd just like to start with our official response to the news regarding Games Workshop's change in trading terms announced at the start of last week

Hi Everyone,

Before we start, if you'd allow me to present a little background about Wayland before we get into the meat of the issue I'd be grateful.

We laid out our little web store back in August 2008, our beginnings were humble, with my brother and I packing orders in a spare room. It wasn't ideal but it was what we had to start with and we grew and grew through the continued business of our loyal customers through four warehouses to our current location. In thirty three months we have gone from a spare room in Essex, UK with my brother and I packing boxes to a global operation with fourteen full time staff which is now positioned as one of the largest if not the largest independent hobby retailer in the world. We run our business today as we always have done, in a professional and ethical manner both within the letter and the spirit of the law. Almost all suppliers like us, customers enjoy our openness and service-oriented outlook and whilst we're realistic enough to know we're not by any means perfect we will always strive to improve to ensure our central tenet of great prices and better service.

Managing such growth has been far from simple; we have experienced growing pains like any business in any sector that has exploded in market share terms. Our growing pains have also been more painful as we continually seek to adjust to a shifting commercial landscape from our dominant supplier, Games Workshop. Like many of you, I believe that Games Workshop produce a fantastic product which gives endless joy to countless people. I am proud to be associated with them. Unsurprisingly, therefore, I read with real concern the statement by the CEO Mark Wells over the new trade terms which effectively prevents us selling Games Workshop supplied products outside Europe. Mark’s statement can be found here

Mark seems to be clearly of the view that on-line retailers ( and we are not purely that, of course given our bricks and mortar presence) “free ride” on the back of Games Workshop’s bricks and mortar outlets. We have sought over the years, and I thought with some success and recognition, to demonstrate to Games Workshop the value that we provide not just in terms of sales but also in terms of pre and after sales service (not to mention our activities at trade fairs), which is clearly equivalent to the service that is provided on the “ground” by bricks and mortar outlets. Quite aside from the legality of Games Workshop’s actions, we are confused by the commercial attitude of Games Workshop which hampers our ability to sell to hobbyists to the clear disadvantage of both Games Workshop (albeit maybe not their retail arm) and the hobbyists themselves.

I will not air anyone’s dirty laundry in public. Therefore, I am writing to Games Workshop separately (its board, lawyers and their principal shareholders) to share my concerns in greater depth. I hope that commercial common sense will prevail and that we can continue to work with Games Workshop to expand their market and bring a great product to as many people as possible at the best price possible. After all, Games Workshop not only has a clear responsibility to the market but also a clear responsibility to its shareholders (which, after all, could be you and me!).

In the meantime, we believe after the announced terms are implemented we shall be able to continue to offer all of our loyal customers the same product range that we offer today. There may be a small lead time to implement but we've been given a rather short period to react. We will comply fully and completely with the new terms and conditions of sale imposed upon us and will not contravene them in any capacity whatsoever (albeit we would not wish that to be seen as acceptance of their legality), all we seek to achieve is that customers both old and new are able to benefit from our view of the market wherever they are located. We all love our hobby.

Over the next few weeks we'll be providing updates as to how the process of implementing these changes is coming along, the chances are we'll use Facebook to disseminate this information as it is a great platform for customers to interact with us and each other.

We look forward to continue to serve you and we always will.

Keep on Wargaming.

Richard.
Wayland Games

**Hellfury**

So basically they don't like but they are going to comply anyways in order to keep their trade account.

Great news article. I hope to see similar articles in N&R about each and every company doing business as usual.

**ergotoxin**

Well said. I hope more people will let their shareholders know.

**Arctik_Firangi**

This is a great response. I reckon the Mark Wells is still correct - Wayland may provide great service but don't help the hobby to grow - and the 'free ride' aspect is still there... but there's nothing stopping them from providing their great service to local customers.

As someone who has (in the past) worked hard in retail both as an independent stockist and promoter of wargaming products of many games systems, I'm still pleased about GW's new terms of service, and I'm sure local traders the world over are of the same opinion.

**Mr. Burning**

Hellfury wrote:So basically they don't like but they are going to comply anyways in order to keep their trade account.

Great news article. I hope to see similar articles in N&R about each and every company doing business as usual.

So, retailers should be expected to dump a very profitable range because the minority are sad?

**Kirasu**

I dont think the problem is really with the ban of sale across oceans.. Im of the opinion that brick and mortar stores should be protected at all costs because without them there is no hobby.

But the real problem seems to be the crazy prices they charge to canada/australia and those customers have no alternative now. As an american I couldnt care less not buying from wayland or maelstrom because our prices = Uk prices and I think it will help our hobby here if others cant buy from there either

Its just not fair that the other countries have to pay insane prices

**Hellfury**

Mr. Burning wrote:
Hellfury wrote:So basically they don't like but they are going to comply anyways in order to keep their trade account.

Great news article. I hope to see similar articles in N&R about each and every company doing business as usual.

So, retailers should be expected to dump a very profitable range because the minority are sad?

Nope. I mean that everytime someone does business as usual should be notable as a news article.

"We don't like this one bit! But we are just going to do the same thing we always do." is not something I would call noteworthy let alone news worthy.

**warboss**

They actually posted it in one of the half dozen threads on Gw complaints but obviously, with hundreds of posts between them on dozens of pages, it's easy to miss.

**Mr. Burning**

Hellfury wrote:
Mr. Burning wrote:
Hellfury wrote:So basically they don't like but they are going to comply anyways in order to keep their trade account.

Great news article. I hope to see similar articles in N&R about each and every company doing business as usual.

So, retailers should be expected to dump a very profitable range because the minority are sad?

Nope. I mean that everytime someone does business as usual should be notable as a news article.

"We don't like this one bit! But we are just going to do the same thing we always do." is not something I would call noteworthy let alone news worthy.

Ahh, I see.

**Big P**

Kirasu wrote:I dont think the problem is really with the ban of sale across oceans.. Im of the opinion that brick and mortar stores should be protected at all costs because without them there is no GW-hobby.

Just correcting that for you... Historical gaming does just fine without stores. So only certain sectors of the hobby - namely GW players - are effected.

Personally I imagine its just to try and raise sales in their stores, nothing as gallant as 'saving the hobby'. What alot of old balls.

**Arctik_Firangi**

Hellfury wrote:
Mr. Burning wrote:
Hellfury wrote:So basically they don't like but they are going to comply anyways in order to keep their trade account.

Great news article. I hope to see similar articles in N&R about each and every company doing business as usual.

So, retailers should be expected to dump a very profitable range because the minority are sad?

Nope. I mean that everytime someone does business as usual should be notable as a news article.

"We don't like this one bit! But we are just going to do the same thing we always do." is not something I would call noteworthy let alone news worthy.

I see this article as Wayland basically flipping GW the bird really fast and then grinning with their hands behind their back. The alternative analogy is a prisoner pissing out of their cell door. Smartarses.

**Steu**

Kirasu wrote:I dont think the problem is really with the ban of sale across oceans.. Im of the opinion that brick and mortar stores should be protected at all costs because without them there is no hobby.

But the real problem seems to be the crazy prices they charge to canada/australia and those customers have no alternative now. As an american I couldnt care less not buying from wayland or maelstrom because our prices = Uk prices and I think it will help our hobby here if others cant buy from there either

Its just not fair that the other countries have to pay insane prices

Just a note the UK inflation is one of the highest in Europe thus exporting has become very expensive for us

**AvatarForm**

Not to mention the OP does not deserve a thread of its own as it has been posted in every other thread dealing with the GW control and price rise issues.

**Kirasu**

Big P wrote:
Kirasu wrote:I dont think the problem is really with the ban of sale across oceans.. Im of the opinion that brick and mortar stores should be protected at all costs because without them there is no GW-hobby.

Just correcting that for you... Historical gaming does just fine without stores. So only certain sectors of the hobby - namely GW players - are effected.

Personally I imagine its just to try and raise sales in their stores, nothing as gallant as 'saving the hobby'. What alot of old balls.

I have a hard time believing that FoW, which is a game that uses a similar sized board with similiar priced models would do just fine without ANY game stores to play at. While FoW is, yes, a historical game IMO it should not be lumped in with the others.. historicals which generally have very little quality model support or any kind of following among people 30 or under. FoW however has quite the opposite which makes totally different to me from other historicals. If game stores died then PP, FoW and GW would all suffer the same fate to me

Also, by game store I mean "store with decent space to actually play" Not just a random hobby shop with no tables

Just a note the UK inflation is one of the highest in Europe thus exporting has become very expensive for us

I would think that our factories in the US could help the canadian problem. I try not to think too hard about GW financial decisions tho

**Sephyr**

I never bought GW merchandise at a brick&mortar store, nor has any of my gaming club friends. We learned of 40k though each other, through online forums and the Dawn of War games.

The changes have effectively closed down my main forms of getting models and priced me out of the hobby. So that's two 2000-points armies I'll never be getting.

But hey, at least they think they'll give stores 2-3 years of prolongued life to sell AoBR to a few kids who'll then never buy anything else;

**rich1231**

Im only going to post about this once on here... but there are some not insignificant points layered into our announcement. I think you should read it carefully.

**obsidianaura**

Doesn't have to be exported from here does it? GW has factories in other countries.

I don't think it’s fair that our friends overseas have to pay such an inflated price.

I don’t believe it costs more to run shops outside of the UK so why such a difference.

GW is claiming it’s trying to grow the hobby but I find that a cop-out of an answer when their physical shops do such a poor job and they continue to increase the price out of the reach of the mainstream.

I wonder how long until GW sets its sites on UK internal sales too.

My independant LGS has done way more than the GW store to make people play.

Another thing, are there no resellers in the south? Are they not given similar options to we have here.

Maybe Wayland could setup a Southern side of their company and carry on? (I have no idea how this would work though)

**kronk**

I caught them, Rich. I wish you and your company all the success in the world. I haven't ordered from you (being in the US), but I haven't heard anything negative from those that have.

**Homunkulus**

Steu wrote:Just a note the UK inflation is one of the highest in Europe thus exporting has become very expensive for us

GWs failure to adjust prices based on radically different exchange rates is what is making them uncompetitive, not your inflation rate

**Kilkrazy**

I started historicals when I was at university in the early 1980s and was about 20. WHFB first edition was launched while I was at university but it was after

What's happened since then is that most teenagers' first exposure to wargames is GW, and many of them never move past that point due to a number of factors.

There are heaps of excellent producers of historical models though.

**CT GAMER**

Hellfury wrote:So basically they don't like but they are going to comply anyways in order to keep their trade account.

Great news article. I hope to see similar articles in N&R about each and every company doing business as usual.

On a related note, I will contiune to buy GW and play despite not liking higher prices and various other GW buisness decisions. In effect I'll grumble from time to time and then carry on as usual as most of us will...

**CunningB**

Hellfury wrote:
Mr. Burning wrote:
Hellfury wrote:So basically they don't like but they are going to comply anyways in order to keep their trade account.

Great news article. I hope to see similar articles in N&R about each and every company doing business as usual.

So, retailers should be expected to dump a very profitable range because the minority are sad?

Nope. I mean that everytime someone does business as usual should be notable as a news article.

"We don't like this one bit! But we are just going to do the same thing we always do." is not something I would call noteworthy let alone news worthy.

Just want to point out from the main post that writing strong worded letters to shareholders is serious business in the UK

On a more serious note this IS news worthy because a) it's a response of a major supplier arguably at the centre of this storm and b) it's telling us that their working on it.

How can it not be news? Just because it doesn't interest you doesn't mean that's true for everyone

**Aeon**

In the meantime, we believe after the announced terms are implemented we shall be able to continue to offer all of our loyal customers the same product range that we offer today. There may be a small lead time to implement but we've been given a rather short period to react. We will comply fully and completely with the new terms and conditions of sale imposed upon us and will not contravene them in any capacity whatsoever (albeit we would not wish that to be seen as acceptance of their legality), all we seek to achieve is that customers both old and new are able to benefit from our view of the market wherever they are located. We all love our hobby.

Wow - No one picked up on this bit...

**ProtoClone**

Good to hear...Hopefully, as a company on the front lines, you will get the ear of GW and maybe get them to listen to a little reason.

Although I have found getting people in upper management to understand what it is like on the front lines is not an easy task. So best of luck to you Wayland.

**Alpharius**

Aeon wrote:

In the meantime, we believe after the announced terms are implemented we shall be able to continue to offer all of our loyal customers the same product range that we offer today. There may be a small lead time to implement but we've been given a rather short period to react. We will comply fully and completely with the new terms and conditions of sale imposed upon us and will not contravene them in any capacity whatsoever (albeit we would not wish that to be seen as acceptance of their legality), all we seek to achieve is that customers both old and new are able to benefit from our view of the market wherever they are located. We all love our hobby.

Wow - No one picked up on this bit...

I think we all picked up on that, but we're not exactly sure what it means.

It sounds as if they are threatening to do... something, but we don't know what.

A lot of people seem to think that what GW has done is illegal, that they aren't allowed to do this, or can't enforce it?

One of the ways around it is to use a distributor other than GW for GW product, but your discount is usually less, and you then have to discount product less, but... no one knows for sure!

This should be interesting...

**Aeon**

unless of course wayland creates its own frieght forwarding company...

**KarlPedder**

I really have to get off my butt and call my buddy who's dad runs a indie stockist here in AU find out just how much of that mark up to cover the expensive running costs here in Australia is accounted into the prices he pays for GW stuff.

Cause I have this sneaking suspiscion that they are paying wholesale on the jacked up price not getting that extra for themselves which would completely undermine the reasoning GW gave.

**DeathGod**

Kirasu wrote:I dont think the problem is really with the ban of sale across oceans.. Im of the opinion that brick and mortar stores should be protected at all costs because without them there is no hobby.

But the real problem seems to be the crazy prices they charge to canada/australia and those customers have no alternative now. As an american I couldnt care less not buying from wayland or maelstrom because our prices = Uk prices and I think it will help our hobby here if others cant buy from there either

Its just not fair that the other countries have to pay insane prices

/ramble on

What is funny to me is how people from Canada and Australia bitch and moan (and I'm not picking on those two countries, they are just the two examples given in this thread) about prices as if it is the evil greedy corporation trying to remove their customers' kidneys in order to sell on the black market. As if the local environment has nothing to do whatsoever with the pricing involved.

As an American I have nothing but anecdotal evidence, and I freely admit that, but let's look at a few things:

1) For people who don't know, Phoenix is a major destination for Canadians during the wintertime seeking to flee that evil substance called snow. Many of them own a second home here and live in it for 4-6 months of the year. We call them "snowbirds." Now I have worked retail my entire life, and I'm pretty damn good at it. Right now I manage a Famous Footwear in a suburb of Phoenix. Canadian laws are a complete laughing stock to us, both my company and my Canadian customers, and are responsible for maybe 15% of my gross sales. Why? Protectionist tariffs. A pair of shoes with an MSRP of 120 dollars sells for $60-80 in my store (I'm using a Skechers Shape-Ups shoe as my example if you need to know). It sells for $260 in Canada. There is a thriving "trade" of smuggling commercial goods from America to Canada - "trade" in quotes because its not for resale, but to simply avoid having to sell a body part to be able to buy a pair of shoes.

2) I don't know as much about Australian laws or economic details, but I ask this as an example of the economic climate: What is the minimum wage in Australia? I could be wrong, and I welcome any Aussie to correct me if I am, but I have been told its something rediculous like $17 or $18 an hour. Labor is just one cost of many involved in running a retail establishment, but that is almost 250% higher than labor costs in America. What other rediculous costs are involved operating a retail business in Australia where you must import your merchandise?

And so priving is what it is in those countries. Thank God that here in America we have our own manufacturing plant and can avoid such rediculousness affecting our pricing. All we have is the "normal" GW pricing SNAFUs (which I personally don't mind, being a free market guy - if I think they get out of control I'll just stop buying). It must be hell on earth trying to run an independent business when you're own government hamstrings you so severely economically, but add to that the ability for your customers to go online and buy the same merchandise for - what? 60% less than what you are forced to sell at? 70% less?

I'm all for this new GW policy, because, contrary to popular belief, it is extremely altruistic on GWs behalf. GW has ALWAYS tried to protect the brick and mortar stores (argue about motivation behind that somewhere else, I'm rambling too much already), when they would sell far more product with a laissez-faire attitude to internet sales. If Wayland and Warstore and whoever was allowed to sell to Canada, Australia, and whomever GW would turn over a far higher quantity of product. Instead, they sacrifice sales in order to help their business partners (both independent retailers and company retailers) stay solvent.

Does it suck for Canadian and Australian hobbyists? You bet. Is pricing of GW product high regardless of where you buy them? Meh, maybe. But if you Canadians want to be able to buy affordable models (or shoes, for that matter) casts your votes come election time for politicians who will stop dicking around with the free market. Australians, I don't know as much about your situation, but I'd wager its pretty similar. See to your own houses before you start casting stones at others...

/ramble off

**AesSedai**

Nice post. I've been waiting to see how Wayland would respond and I am not disappointed.

The biographical info you began with was enlightening. I don't know if you were playing up the humble beginnings angle but who cares, it's true and I can appreciate it.

I'm a Maelstrom guy myself (on account of the free shipping), but I took offense at Wells' impugning Wayland/Maelstrom as free riders. What a slap in the face that was. GW is their own worst enemy. How dare they suggest:

..."the simple fact is that European internet traders will not invest any money in growing the hobby in your country. Their model is to minimise their costs and free-ride on the investment of Games Workshop and local independent shops in creating a customer base..."

If it wasn't for reasonable prices offered by European traders a lot of the expats in Japan (myself included) would not participate in the hobby. Before moving to Japan, in the 15 years I've been in the hobby, I've introduced 5 people to GW products. None of them game or shop at GW stores. I used the lower prices offered by online retailers to sell the GW hobby from a value standpoint.

I feel a rant building. I'll stop here.

P.S @ Hellfury: You a clever guy, I respect your views and have for a long time. Read between the lines in the OP. You'll see that it IS news worthy.

**Worglock**

Arctik_Firangi wrote:This is a great response. I reckon the Mark Wells is still correct - Wayland may provide great service but don't help the hobby to grow - and the 'free ride' aspect is still there... but there's nothing stopping them from providing their great service to local customers.

As someone who has (in the past) worked hard in retail both as an independent stockist and promoter of wargaming products of many games systems, I'm still pleased about GW's new terms of service, and I'm sure local traders the world over are of the same opinion.

So, what store do you speak for in an official capacity?