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All we know is there's going to be a points shake up come December so, tactics-wise, I wouldn't suggest committing to any single army build until then, as far as buying new models go (something that's decent now might be garbage then, and stuff everyone is overlooking might suddenly become viable).

We may very well be getting new stuff once the codex come out, but that won't be until some time next year, so you can't really "plan" for it.

I played against the supremacy armour from Tau today, had 37 odd drones as wounds.

Was a painful game until I cleared the drones out. I had also DS the pylon that turn, and 54 wounds later

feth that was satisfying

Tesla immortals with MWBD on them are champs at clearing drones. I see too many people not focus down the drones first. You know he is using them to add wounds to x so why shoot x when the drones have a far lower toughness and are easier to wound?
I know it feels unsatisfying to not be shooting the thing you want to kill but don't fall for their trap.

I do the exact same thing. I targeted a Ghostkeel with a Triarch Stalker and he put the wounds into the drones. So I spent 2 turns of MWBD telsa immos and my Gauss TBs to deal with all the drones before I focused on his bigger units. He wasn't happy when I found how to exploit his army

Which rule is it that let's tau units put wounds on drones?

It's part of the drone rule. It's also units within 3" not models, which is too much imo. All had Ld 9, rerolling 1's ect. Was nutso

torblind wrote:
Which rule is it that let's tau units put wounds on drones?

Saviour Protocols: If a <SEPT> DRONES unit is within 3" of a friendly <SEPT> INFANTRY or <SEPT> BATTLESUIT unit when an enemy attack successfully wounds it, you can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal wound instead of the normal damage.



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Basically it is like Lychguard Guardians Protocols.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically it is like Lychguard Guardians Protocols.

Sadly our Lychguard can not be like the drones and use their Inviln save when protecting their lord.

So ive onky really been playing against my buddy and his tyranids. How do we deal with genestealers with catalyst? I dumped a full tesla anni barge, a monolith, imotekh and a DDA into a unit for 3 turns and only took out 6 or 7. The double 5++ is insane. Do we have an answer to this or is it really just pump shots into it and hope weight of fire eventually prevails?

Inevitableq wrote:
So ive onky really been playing against my buddy and his tyranids. How do we deal with genestealers with catalyst? I dumped a full tesla anni barge, a monolith, imotekh and a DDA into a unit for 3 turns and only took out 6 or 7. The double 5++ is insane. Do we have an answer to this or is it really just pump shots into it and hope weight of fire eventually prevails?

I used 2 overlords and to full units of tesla immortals and mainly thanks to them I cleared 76 genestealers in a game recently and pulled a too close victory. Tesla exploding on 5+ just tore them down.

Also lychguard in cc with warscythes is nice because dealing 2 damage means their catalyst roll is now 5+ on 2 dice, which effectively cancels it out


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Pyrothem wrote:

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Basically it is like Lychguard Guardians Protocols.

Sadly our Lychguard can not be like the drones and use their Inviln save when protecting their lord.

Can drones use their invul to save others? It says they suffer mortal wounds


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Oh no they allocate wounds, not damage, so before saves are rolled I assume

In the games I played any time I successfully wounded a ghostkeel or whatever my opponent took their save and if they failed whatever my damage roll was, say I had a D6 damage and got a 3, then those 3 wounds would become 3 mortal wounds on the drones instead.

I don't play T'au so I am not sure hos it works tbh. Any one here play for the Greater Good?

It is the "shield drones" that get to use the inviln vs the wound. There was a big cry about it before the FAQ fixed it. (Before there was not inviln save so you would never use sheild drones Becuase they never got to use their shield)

According to Tau answers on the subject in YMDC, if the save-roll fails, the drone takes the wound, and it transmogrifies into 1 morwal wound, regardless of damage output, so a las gun that goes unsaved and a las cannon that goes unsaved both end up as one mortal wound on the drone unit, ie no dmg roll for the lascannon

What are the best Necron melee units? IS melee viable for Necrons? Thanks.

BillyN831 wrote:
What are the best Necron melee units? IS melee viable for Necrons? Thanks.

At the moment, just Scarabs, really.
- Scythe-Lychguard are good at killing things, but too slow with no reliable way to get them into combat that doesn't cost a fortune in points.
- Flayed Ones are good at killing things too, but too expensive and unwieldy with their 9" charge.
- Wraiths are good at staying alive, but don't really do much damage.
- Praetorians are good combat, but a little easy to kill for how much they cost.
- The Night Bringer is good against tough non-vehicles, but too slow.
Scarabs are fast, cheap, put out a lot of damage, and pretty survivable.

Yup learn to love scarabs, they are our screens against deep strike and melee rush army. With their speed they can tangle up armor and throw a few wounds around (they wound a landraider as well as marines). With a 10" move and a d6 advance on top of that means they can get to where they are needed most relatively easy.

Im starting to look more to wraiths tbh, after running scarabs today (2w-1L) my scarabs dont really ever do much. The lack of ap and s3 makes them wound on 5's most of the time, you hardly see the hordes they are good against. My local scene seems to love big stuff, not many hordes around, so the pylon is very well worth it (when it doesn't whiff and cause me to get tabled )

But wraiths are much more durable than scarabs, and have ap-1, still have a lot of attacks and most critically, -1 ap.

I think 6 naked wraiths, and 18 scarabs is a very good screen for an army that also has more offensive punch.

 Klowny wrote:
Im starting to look more to wraiths tbh, after running scarabs today (2w-1L) my scarabs dont really ever do much. The lack of ap and s3 makes them wound on 5's most of the time, you hardly see the hordes they are good against. My local scene seems to love big stuff, not many hordes around, so the pylon is very well worth it (when it doesn't whiff and cause me to get tabled )

But wraiths are much more durable than scarabs, and have ap-1, still have a lot of attacks and most critically, -1 ap.

I think 6 naked wraiths, and 18 scarabs is a very good screen for an army that also has more offensive punch.

I really don't think Wraiths are really more durable for the points.

Wraith: T5, 3+ Invuln, 3 wounds a pop, for 38 points.
Scarabs: T3, 6+ armour, 3 wounds a pop, for 13 points.

All calculations are going to be done AFTER hitting-they're both hit the same, so no need to calculate that in.

Lasguns
Wraiths: (1/3)*(1/3)=1/9, or 4.22 points per hit.
Scarabs: (1/2)*(5/6)=5/12, or 5.42 points per hit.

Boltguns
Wraiths: (1/3)*(1/3)=1/9, or 4.22 points per hit.
Scarabs: (2/3)*(5/6)=5/9, or 7.22 points per hit.

Pulse Weapons
Wraiths: (1/2)*(1/3)=1/6, or 6.33 points per hit.
Scarabs: (2/3)*(5/6)=5/9, or 7.22 points per hit.

Heavy Bolter
Wraiths: (1/2)*(1/3)=1/6, or 6.33 points per hit.
Scarabs: 2/3=2/3, or 8.67 points per hit.

Autocannon
Wraiths: (2/3)*(1/3)*2=4/9, or 16.89 points per hit (with potential overkill).
Scarabs: (5/6)*2=5/3, or 21/67 points per hit (with potential overkill).

Right, I'm gonna stop here. It looks like Wraiths are slightly more durable, point for point, against most things.

But, if we compare 6 Wraiths (228 points) to 18 Scarabs (234 points-a 3% difference, about) OFFENSIVELY...

Wraiths have 18 attacks, at S6 AP-1, hitting on 3s.
Scarabs have 72 attacks, at S3 AP0, hitting on 3s, wounding on 5s at the worst.

Hitting is the same, so I'm reducing it down to 12 hits (Wraiths) and 48 hits (Scarabs).

Against GEQs:
Wraiths: 12*(5/6)*(5/6)=8.33 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/2)*(2/3)=16 wounds.

Against MEQs:
Wraiths: 12*(2/3)*(1/2)=4 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/3)=5.33 wounds.

Against TEQs:
Wraiths: 12*(2/3)*(1/3)=2.67 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/6)=2.67 wounds.

Against T5, 3+ models:
Wraiths: 12*(2/3)*(1/2)=4 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/3)=5.33 wounds.

Against T6, 3+ models:
Wraiths: 12*(1/2)*(1/2)=3 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/3)=5.33 wounds.

Against Rhinos (T7, 3+):
Wraiths: 12*(1/3)*(1/2)=2 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/3)=5.33 wounds.

Against Knights (T8, 3+):
Wraiths: 12*(1/3)*(1/2)=2 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/3)=5.33 wounds.

Against Land Raiders (T8, 2+):
Wraiths: 12*(1/3)*(1/3)=1.33 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/6)=2.67 wounds.

So Scarabs are actually a LOT better offensively, against most everything. ESPECIALLY tough things.

Hey all,

Thought I would update you in my tourny today.

Ended up winning 2 games by a land slide and losing a game by losing a 3vp objective marker. The list I brought is actually holding up pretty well.

1st game - Ad Mech/ Imperial G - 11-14 L

2nd game - Ultra M/ Custodes - 19 - 11 W

3rd game - Blood A angles - 21 -5 W

Going against the top contender tomorrow. He has 120 Fuqqing Rattlings... How dare fuq am I gonna gonna hold up against that?

 Odrankt wrote:
Hey all,

Thought I would update you in my tourny today.

Ended up winning 2 games by a land slide and losing a game by losing a 3vp objective marker. The list I brought is actually holding up pretty well.

1st game - Ad Mech/ Imperial G - 11-14 L

2nd game - Ultra M/ Custodes - 19 - 11 W

3rd game - Blood A angles - 21 -5 W

Going against the top contender tomorrow. He has 120 Fuqqing Rattlings... How dare fuq am I gonna gonna hold up against that?

Scarabs?

They can do a max of 240 wounds a turn, which is admittedly, a lot, but also has a chance so damn low my calculator just returns "Error".

Realistically, against Scarab swarms, they'll do 44.44 wounds, plus 13.33 mortal wounds, for about 58 wounds, or 19 dead Scarabs, or 247 points.

With a 10" move, you can quickly close the distance and murder their faces off.

I only have 2 units of 8 and mainly used them to prevent my Triarch Stalkers from being charged.

Having 2 Triarch Stalker is amazing tbh, 2 ways of re-rolling 1s is stupidity good.

I could DS my Deathmarks agaisnt any units he DS's. I will have to make sure my Cryptek is hidden to get the 5+ invul.

I'm in the middle of converting some Flayed Ones. I love that they have mobility options (DS) and Shred

How do you convert them? (I have done a few myself)

Spare Wraith claws where Warriors' arms should do?
Though FOs are a little pricey and unreliable. Might be better off with more Scarabs instead.

torblind wrote:
How do you convert them? (I have done a few myself)

Can't seem to attach a picture, but I essentially used Warriors and added claws by using bits like Ork Power Klaws and such. There are tutorials on YouTube if you want to get a better idea.

Hey guys,

So I just finished a major tournament, went 3W-3L. I had a tough road, with one of the highest SoS's in the tournament, and some bad draws at the worst of times. Would have tied for 13th out of 54 tables had my pylon rolled statistically average In the mission that cost me 13th, I faced a triple FW knight list, (one was the big one, not warhound sized though). Rolled 1 for my D6 pylon shots, CP rerolled it to 2 shots....... then rolled double 1's to hit. Needless to say I got tabled.

Taking away from it I am changing up my list in a few major ways. Due to how many superheavies/LoW were there, the region is limiting it to >30W/PL and a single LoW. So unfortunately the pylon is gone, but tbh it severely underperformed this tournament. It couldn't kill a swarmlord, or a dreadnaught with 4w left, or a stormraven in TWO turns. I would either roll 1-3 D6 shots, or miss with the shots I did get. I know its not statistical and my rolling was poor for it (made up for my other units) but I'm kinda glad I cant take it. Missing with it is so severely noticeable due to it being a quarter of your armies points. And since there wont be many big monsters/vehicles about I wont have to worry about losing its damage potential. In its defence it did put 54 wounds onto An'grath from 3 unsaved wounds in one volley.

Toholk - his D3 living metal came into play in 3 player rounds out of 6 games. I got back 3 each time but I found my TA was either at full wounds permanently or dead immediately. I also used his reroll on the seize twice and it failed, so overall I would prefer a more in-game relevant HQ. Also, its way more beneficial to CP reroll the roll off for 1st over the seize, just depends on what your opponent rolls.

Tomb Blades - performed quite well, happy with what they do. Always did stuff, in most games they were able to score and wipe out squads, in all but 2 games they made their points back and then some. I found them to be in combat a lot, and they are suprisingly durable, forced a black templars list to blow 2 or 3 cp to fight again to kill a single tomb blade. Having fly was super handy, as they spent the game RP'ing, falling back from combat and kiting away, blasting the units charging them, then overwatching and repeating ad infinitum. Only would have benefitted from scopes in one round of shooting in one game, so I'm happy I left them off. I am going to run them now with shadowlooms, as the 5++ would be really helpful. If the points are spare I will also chuck on shield-vanes, but in my new list I'm running 7 of them, 3 w/ vanes, 3 w/ looms and 1 with both so I have 4 of each in the squad. In terms of tesla or gauss, I'm really happy with the gauss, the AP -2 is very handy, and I found I was in rapid fire range a lot, and once you get into it, the damage goes off the charts.

Immortals - My MVP's. I had lightning crackling everywhere. I was rolling SUPER hot for this all tournament. averaging 24-26 out of 20 hits most volleys WITHOUT MWBD. Dropping Toholk in favour of an overlord for these guys. I realised last night, they are actually pretty mobile, as you can choose for the 2+ to hit/ 4+ tesla, or a 3+ to hit/ 5"+D6"+1" movement and still proc tesla on 6's due to MWBD. MWBD also means we have a semi effective cheap answer to flyers, as MWBD negates the hard to hit, giving them another viable target. Pumping out mass saves onto flyers isnt good for them, as they usually dont have a great armour save.

Scarabs - And here is the biggest change to my list (besides the pylon). Scarabs did well overall. In the games I needed to deny deepstrike they flooded the board and denied very effectively. In the games they needed to create a wall to stop nasty CC charging my shooters, they held the line stoically. In a ridiculous final game a single base stoop up against 2 rounds of 3 thunderhammers hammering away at them. (Poor space wolves were rolling badly that game). However, they die to focused fire too quickly. Having no save and facing LR after LR just mulched through them. Additionally, while they put out a bucketload of attacks, and wound everything in the game on 5's, they wound (almost) everything in the game on 5's . Their damage output just isn't up to standard, especially when you start spamming them in multiple large squads. Necrons are expensive, so every point has to be balanced in terms of durability vs offensive power, and I think too many scarabs doesn't fill out either role effectively.

Deceiver - His redeploy was handy, and he did manage to charge a flyer and MW it down, but the lack of a shooting attack is noticable. Still good, especially in scarab spam lists where you can just redeploy 18 - 27 scarab bases and take up half the board, but when you drop those numbers down and start to redeploy shooters into better vantage points, he becomes less effective. Sure you can use his trick to bait out bad placements from your opponents, but with fast cron lists, deploying to minimise an alphastrike by hiding usually is probably a better choice.

Tesseract Ark - Didn't dissapoint, probably killed way more than the pylon. The charge thing forced one opponent to blow a CP to charge it, and the fleshbane flamer is nasty on overwatch. Found it either stayed alive all game in the one spot or died pretty quickly. I think it will be more of a target priority if the pylon isn't around, but quantum shielding saved it before. I did fail a lot of QS however,(could not stop rolling 6's for everything except the pylon's D6 shots ). Second MVP of the tournament. The tesla was a nice addition, but only having 6 shots didn't help its cause much.

I built an alpha strike list, and tbh it cost me all three games. I have built a preliminary list that I will be taking to masters in a couple of months. It doesn't matter that much if I go first or second, obviously I would still like to go first but if I go second it will still negate alot of the alpha from the opposing armies list. I have also changed it based on what I experienced over the weekend and seeing what the new local meta is. I built to face lots of hordes, yet there was only 2 ork lists, 2 nid lists (one was a monster mash) and 2 guard lists in the entire comp.

Here we go lads:

O/lord
10x Tesla immortals
C'tan shard of the Nightbringer
10x Flayed ones
1x Canoptek Tomb sentinel
7x Scarabs
6x Wraiths (naked)
7x Tomb blades, 3 w/ vanes, 3 w/ looms, 1 w/ both
1x Sentry pylon w/ heat cannon, teleportation matrix
1x Tesseract Ark

I feel wraiths are worth the points over scarabs now. They have the same amount of wounds, yet they rock a 3++ and T5. I know smite spam will shred them, but i still have scarabs to soak/screen that. They also have S6, so they wound most things on 3's, scarabs only are better against T8, and even then wraiths have the -1ap. I think -1 rend is good for them as most CC threats have a 3++/4++ and you are pulling them off their 2+. Granted they lose 1 attack per base, but move faster, and can move through everything.

Nightbringer is due to the fact ive dropped so many scarabs. I plan to screen him with either the scarabs (giving him 29 wounds effectively) or the wraiths depending on what I have to go up against. Hits and wounds on 2+ in both shooting and melee, with a -4AP and D3/D6 damage, all the while spamming MW, and blows up on a 4+ as a final feth you lol.

Flayed ones start in DS, and can stay there until they are needed. Pair pretty well with the wraiths, as the wraiths can catch whatever the flayed ones want to eat. Just a good unit overall, and makes anyone think twice about fighting them.

Sentry pylon and Sentinel both give me deployment advantage along with the flayed ones, and still gives me heavy weaponry to fire at full power on my turn.

It's a balanced mix of shooting and melee, I found there were lots of CC armies that I was terrified of, but this list will stand up against them much easier, while also having more firepower overall than my previous one. It can deal with one big monster, hordes and elite armies, and every component is independent of the other, I still have great board control, area denial. And it plays like I have always loved to play my crons, super fast and in your face.

Awesome read, not done yet, just wanted to point out that szeras improves bs by 1, does not give +1 to hit which is what you need for tesla

Yep, I got way overexcited when concocting that plan last night. I will correct it now lol

I think everything you say makes good sense. And I'm keeping your proposed list for my own (ab)use!

Regarding the Deceiver, yeah, its a great ability, but its just hard to synergize well with the units you would like to bring up. It always comes at the cost of the strengths you would normally play to in a necron list (Warriors left alone with no support and good alpha strike only possible if you scrap all other plans and commit 1000+ points)

Have you fielded the Nightbringer before? He is awesome, I'm just looking for the best way to deploy him, and what you say sounds good.

I also liked the wraith/flayed one synergy, had never thought about that before, but should be playable


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Also I own a Gauss pylon, but no Sentry pylons, so I was sad to see its lackluster performance. Guess I'll just have to keep throwing more money at GW.

But I knew it already, a good necron list has typically been about volume of dice, which is great, it reduces the impact of poor rolling (this was part of the strength of ghost arks full of warriors in 7th, that many dice never roll catastrophicly)

However a few 1's for the gauss pylon is not particularly unlikely, but it ruins that 500 pt investment that your survival hinges on be.

So yeah, the gauss pylon would be great in pairs or 3, so yea well above 2000 pt games