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Hi,

I'm building a BA army of 1750pts which is the standard tournament size here. We have here quite many different GK players in the area at moment.

The question is what kind of list can effectively play agains GK and other popular builds. (and how to play with them)

I have tried to have 10 man assault squads with double melta and power fist, but DoA isn't working because some GK librarian power. Priests are almost wortless because the tha amount of power attacks in close combat and s8 hits those armies can deliver.
Last time I tried 4 las/plas razors with 5 man squads in them. 1st turn and 3 of them were wrecked by 3 rifleman dreads. I also had 1 furioso dread with Blood talons who performed well. It was transported to battle by Storm Raven but only one SR is so easy to kill right away.

I've tried to find solutions from the internet but most BA articles are pre GK release and so outdated.

Thanks for the advice in advance!

GK are both decent at shooting and cc.
You need to play your strength:
A unit that can take on GK in cc are Assault Termies, since GK units have no access to storm shields, and
Predators (autolas pattern) can counter Psyfleman Dreads.

Here are your advantages over GK:

Your mech units are all faster
Your TH/SS terminators wreck anything in cc
Your dreads wreck anything in cc
Your long range shooting is better
Most of your units are more maneuverable or faster

Here's what they do better:
They vastly outclass your mid/short range shooting
Their vehicles are more durable
They have better anti-psychic defense
They shut down deep striking

Focus on your strengths and making sure you are the one assaulting them, rather than the other way around. GK will mess you up in assault more than some armies, but you should still win by strength of numbers, furious charge and speed. If you play mech spam, either pray for DOW and the chance to reserve everything, or make sure you turboboost your vehicles as often as possible. If you play DOA, pray you don't face alot of strike squads/interceptors, and get used to dropping farther back then you normally would.

One thing I have found playing local competitive GK lists is that they tend to struggle with Land Raiders using some of their standard competitive builds. Redeemers will bake a squad of PAGKs a turn and TH/SS can deal with anything the GKs can field.

Adding a TH/SS redeemer unit to your standard mech build (Las/plas razors and autolas preds) may yield you some positive results. Watch out for the Vindicare too. Don't bother with DoA either, GK have some sick tools against deep striking armies.

Adding a TH/SS redeemer unit to your standard mech build (Las/plas razors and autolas preds) may yield you some positive results. Watch out for the Vindicare too. Don't bother with DoA either, GK have some sick tools against deep striking armies.

This seems to be the build you want to go vs. GK.
The standard GK builds can hardly deal with LRs and Hammernators.

It takes 44 psycannons to have a 66% chance of a wrecked/exploded result on a raider, if memory serves. That said, be prepared for the GK to kill it with 2 shots from a cheap moving strike squad with their hot dice lol.

In all seriousness though, the GK in my area run 3 psyriflemen, 4 GKSS in psybolter razors, 3 purifiers in rhinos, coteaz, and 2x 3 melta chimera henchmen squads. 10 psycannons. Thus, if you move your redeemer towards him (within 24 inches) he can have a 60% chance of killing a redeemer in 1 turn with pcannons, without the 6 meltaguns. Now of course not all will be in range, and if he has to move then its less shots, but still that a lot of firepower.

My answer, echoing what others have said, is THSS termies. Still take those priests for FnP as well, as people like bolterbacks and the GK is one of the best small arms armies in the game.

As others said, a combipred matches very well with psyriflemen, but ONLY if the psyriflemen cant shoot your side armor. Since the side of the pred is huge, getting side shots is pretty easy, and when that happens the combipred has a huge disadvantage compared to psyriflemen. So the otherwise excellent combipred is subpar if you dont manage its sides with perfection.

Losing 3 razors in 1 turn to 3 psyriflemen is an anomaly, so dont worry about it too much. That said, expect them to at least shake 3 razors a turn.

My advice? Keep running those assault marines in razors, but give em fists. If you can blitz the grey knights quick enough with a turn 2 charge, you can get s9 fists on his dakkadreads, and your LRR with THSS termies can go to town on his entire backfield. Make sure you have a libby, and take the cover save to provide your lead vehicles a save even if he goes first. He has to move forward with a libby to hood you, and you want him moving towards you.

scubasteve04 wrote:One thing I have found playing local competitive GK lists is that they tend to struggle with Land Raiders using some of their standard competitive builds. Redeemers will bake a squad of PAGKs a turn and TH/SS can deal with anything the GKs can field.

Adding a TH/SS redeemer unit to your standard mech build (Las/plas razors and autolas preds) may yield you some positive results. Watch out for the Vindicare too. Don't bother with DoA either, GK have some sick tools against deep striking armies.

This is sound advice.

Thanks for your replies. I'll create a list where to start and playtest.

Autolas preds, TH/SS termies, Land Raiders and Furioso dreads are not easily fitted into a 1750pts list with some troops in it also.

There will probably be a tournament in the end of July so I have plenty of time to improve my army and learn to play with it.

Whatever you do, stay the feth away from stormravens. Psy-riflemen dreads eat them for lunch.

olympia wrote:Whatever you do, stay the feth away from stormravens. Psy-riflemen dreads eat them for lunch.

first try:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/372235.page

DevianID wrote:It takes 44 psycannons to have a 66% chance of a wrecked/exploded result on a raider, if memory serves. That said, be prepared for the GK to kill it with 2 shots from a cheap moving strike squad with their hot dice lol.

In all seriousness though, the GK in my area run 3 psyriflemen, 4 GKSS in psybolter razors, 3 purifiers in rhinos, coteaz, and 2x 3 melta chimera henchmen squads. 10 psycannons. Thus, if you move your redeemer towards him (within 24 inches) he can have a 60% chance of killing a redeemer in 1 turn with pcannons, without the 6 meltaguns. Now of course not all will be in range, and if he has to move then its less shots, but still that a lot of firepower.

My answer, echoing what others have said, is THSS termies. Still take those priests for FnP as well, as people like bolterbacks and the GK is one of the best small arms armies in the game.

As others said, a combipred matches very well with psyriflemen, but ONLY if the psyriflemen cant shoot your side armor. Since the side of the pred is huge, getting side shots is pretty easy, and when that happens the combipred has a huge disadvantage compared to psyriflemen. So the otherwise excellent combipred is subpar if you dont manage its sides with perfection.

Losing 3 razors in 1 turn to 3 psyriflemen is an anomaly, so dont worry about it too much. That said, expect them to at least shake 3 razors a turn.

My advice? Keep running those assault marines in razors, but give em fists. If you can blitz the grey knights quick enough with a turn 2 charge, you can get s9 fists on his dakkadreads, and your LRR with THSS termies can go to town on his entire backfield. Make sure you have a libby, and take the cover save to provide your lead vehicles a save even if he goes first. He has to move forward with a libby to hood you, and you want him moving towards you.

Well, you aren't factoring a couple things in here. For one thing, smoke. Normally, I move 12" forward turn one and use smoke, so cut that 66% into half (33%). Now factor in range and line of sight. 24" isn't great range, and its quit easy to deny range to half the enemy psycannons against your Land Raider. Bunching up would negate this, but then the Terminators are going to be multi-assaulting a dangerous amount of vehicles.

Hybrid lists with coteaz and some meltaguns have a lot better chance against Land raiders. Pure GK lists really struggle.