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I'm getting ready for a tournament and have been out of the game for a couple months. I haven't played against the Grey Knights with their latest codex. I'm not asking how they match up against my army, I'm just curious about how they perform in general. I want to know what to expect from them if I see several GK players at the event. I'm familiar with the basics (force weapons, etc.) but I want to know what is common with them now that players have had a while to master their lists.

What are Pros and Cons of a Grey Knight tournament army?

What is their weakness? I.e. Do they struggle against horde armies? Elite armies? Mech armies?...

What are the common build-types (or power lists)?

Are special characters powerful in the GK codex? If so, what are the common special characters and how do people build lists around them?

What is their relative power compared to other lists? I.e. which armies are currently more powerful than they are?

GK are a strong tournament army.
They have decent shooting (psy ammo) and cc (force weapons, psychic powers) capabilities to take on every army in the 40k universe.
A decent build involves Termies and GKs as troops and Psyflemen Dreads.

What army are you playing?

Recently, I played with mech Eldar vs. GK and found that they are tough to beat.
The opponent had Inquisitor Xenos, 10 Termies, 5 Termies, 2x 5 GK w/ Razorback, and 3 Psyfleman Dreads.

Well probably the biggest flaw Grey Knights have is there mobility. They suffer against armies like Mech Eldar or Dark Eldar that can outmaneuver. they make up with this by being very tough and durable.

Strong units that are seen are purifiers. They have 1 more attack than the standard grey knight strike squad, the cleansing flame power, can get more pyscannons and for less points, and get halberds cheaper all for 20 more points.

Common special characters are Castellan Crowe, who lets purifiers be troops, and Inquistor Corteaz, who lets henchmen be troops.

GK lists will vary radically from each other and at this point there is no agreed upon netlist to go with. Purifier mech spam is the closest thing but I think you will see just as many Coteaz henchmen and terminator armies in tournaments for awhile. For the time being, one GK list will probably play very differently from another. There are some general things that GK excel or are weak against though.

1) GK wreck mech spam. The entire codex is good at destroying AV10-12 vehicles, en mass. Whether its in cc with strength 10 hammers, or torrents of fire from strength 5 stormbolters, rending psycannons or psybolt autocannons, GK have absolutely zero trouble with light and medium vehicles. If you bring a mech army against a good GK list, you will lose, and if most armies in the tournament are mech, GK will probably win the whole thing without much trouble.

2) Hordes are going to struggle against GK. Horde will get tabled against purifier spam GK, plain and simple, which is the most common list right now. These guys can both out shoot and out assault horde armies thanks to having so many guns and cleansing flame. Against other types of GK armies horde will struggle but can definitely win in the hands of a skilled player. Most GK lists will be built to fight mech, but thanks to the crazy firepower they bring, will also be pretty good against horde.

3) Except for shooting, specialist armies will be better at their focus than GK will ever be. GK can actually outshoot IG, but in every other regard will be outclassed by specialist armies in specific roles. Fast armies are faster and assault armies are better at cc than GK. Some GK units are very quick, or dangerous in assault or both. But if your army is focused on being good at one thing (except shooting) you should be comfortable knowing you will be better than GK at that job.

4) GK are stupidly durable. Whether its multi-wound paladins, shrouding librarians or just fortitude on all vehicles, GK units are tough to put down or ignore. If the GK player focuses on defense, his army will be VERY good at it. The up side is that there are never a lot of GK on the board, so you're just exchanging lots of units for fewer, but tougher ones.

5) GK HQ units are mostly used for unlocking new troop choices or buffing the rest of the army. None of them are game breaking but all are good in assault, and the same rule applies to special characters. Treat them with respect and don't throw away any units fighting them but they can die to shooting like anyone else and get beaten in assault by specialists.

Finally, in terms of "power level" I'd say that GK are very balanced in that they can be beaten by a skilled player of any army. But they will be favored to win vs Daemons, tyranids, IG, Orks, Necrons, SOB and regular marines. Its about 50/50 vs DE, eldar, BA, and SWs. Again, if the entire tournament is nothing but mech spam armies, GK are going to win easily, anything else stands a good chance against them.

I'm sorry but they're very competetive, Purifiers Spam is just nasty against everything. You need better tactics and be able too kill a unit and get away or cripple they're speed.

Take out the transports and shoot them too death, only Horde units can take them on in CC, except purifiers. Only I7 thing's will always be able too kill everything in CC.

Another pro: small army which is easy to carry and quick to pack and unpack, and quick to move each turn. I.e. the exact opposite of those enormous horde armies which take an hour to set up and two hours to play a single turn Quite seriously, in most tourney situations this makes quite a difference.

InquisitorVaron wrote:I'm sorry but they're very competetive, Purifiers Spam is just nasty against everything. You need better tactics and be able too kill a unit and get away or cripple they're speed.

Take out the transports and shoot them too death, only Horde units can take them on in CC, except purifiers. Only I7 thing's will always be able too kill everything in CC.

Throw a unit of assault terminators against GK and see who comes out on top. Or death company, or even a grey hunter vs strike squad comparison. There are units that can fight GK in assault and win, not just horde.

Bruteboss wrote:Throw a unit of assault terminators against GK and see who comes out on top. Or death company, or even a grey hunter vs strike squad comparison. There are units that can fight GK in assault and win, not just horde.

Of course there are, that's why C:GK is balance, not OP.

SJ

Throw a unit of assault terminators against GK and see who comes out on top. Or death company, or even a grey hunter vs strike squad comparison.

The loss of FnP vs. force weapons is really bad news for DC.

Pro: Amazing toolbox type codex that can do anything exceptionally well with a bit of focus and low points premium. Hard to classify as a codex since the builds vary so greatly.

Con: Rife with rules subject to debate, meaning someone is gonna either be unhappy with a ruling or a judge is gonna rule against you. If you dont take any unit that has debatable rules you remove several of the tools in the toolbox that was a big pro for the GK codex.

In addition, as a new book you may not have your ideal models yet, or the models may not be painted as well as your previous army. Plus cheap kitbashes to cobble together a brand new force look like cheap kitbashes.

Bruteboss wrote:

InquisitorVaron wrote:I'm sorry but they're very competetive, Purifiers Spam is just nasty against everything. You need better tactics and be able too kill a unit and get away or cripple they're speed.

Take out the transports and shoot them too death, only Horde units can take them on in CC, except purifiers. Only I7 thing's will always be able too kill everything in CC.

Throw a unit of assault terminators against GK and see who comes out on top. Or death company, or even a grey hunter vs strike squad comparison. There are units that can fight GK in assault and win, not just horde.

DC isn't all that scary of an assault unit. They are a fairly expensive bully unit that beats other armies troops and support, but don't do so well against an equal point level of TH/SS termies, and get beat hard by halberd GKs (at equal points). Grey hunters do do a good job against strike squads, but strike squads have much better shooting ability, and decent CC ability (the GHs don't win without losses, and the strikes will hurt outshoot them).

A unit that CAN take on most of the GK army in CC? DE wyches. They don't care about power weapons, they only care about number of attacks, and wyches have more, and a good invul save. TH/SS will mess up everything in the GK book too, but have some issue with the cost per model (losing any is hard to make up).

TH/SS still wrecks GKs, but thats really nothing new.

Falchion Terminators or Purifiers can actually put quite a dent in TH/SS terminators through sheer number of attacks(although the GK squad will be barely alive at the end)



GK psychic powers are good, but they don't require them to win. which is bad news for Eldar. Shadow in the Warp is a little more problematic as the GKs want their force weapons to pop the big bugs, but GKTs and Paladins can take the Brotherhood banner which makes them auto-pass the psychic test to activate.


as for mobility, GKs can now take Rhinos and Razorbacks so they are no less mobile then Space Marine mech. Terminators can't take DT landraiders , but they can ride in Stormravens or Heavy Support landraiders so it isn't a huge deal.

Stormravens give them the ability to be just as fast as other skimmer armies(and better at assaulting as its an Assault vehicle)


downsides are:

fairly expensive models(although they did drop from the last codex)

No heavy long range anti-tank. the only place to get Lascannons is on Dreadnoughts and Landraiders(expensive) Psybolt Auto-cannons are only good at popping transports and medium armor(and can't do much against AV14)


GKs are a balanced codex overall(despite what many people say) and are quite competitive.

Well on a special note about bro banners, they're not all that common. Only terminators and paladins can have them, and even then, the whole min/max system of making lists usually won't incorporate them. The most competitive lists usually don't have either, and if they do, you should try and avoid those squads.

a larger squad of Terminators will likely have one and Paladins will certaintly have one.


its a shame you lose your NFW when you take one, although the additional attack and automatic FW activation makes up for it.



its actually quite an efficient upgrade for a footsloggin terminator list.

Grey Templar is right. Brobanners will be in every competitive terminator or paladin list.