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So in perusing the tyranid codex, I hit upon an idea and figured I'd run it past dakka. The idea is to build a list around abusing the mawloc arrival mechanic. A sample list to show what i mean....

HQ -Flyrant or Parasite

Elites

3x 3 strong lictor squads

Troops

6x Termis with mycetic spores


Heavy

3x Mawlocs


The specifics could be tailored to points, but the important part is the lictors and the mawlocs. The mawloc arrival rules say that any model that survives the initial attack has to move out of the blast marker, but unengaged models and vehicles can't come within 1" of enemy models and are destroyed if unable to move. To me, this finally gives lictors a use. By arriving anywhere more than 1" from an enemy, a 3 strong squad of lictors can box the corners of vehicles, or stretch squad coherency to surround infantry units. This, combined with the reduced scatter possibilities of mycetic spores targetted only 1" away from the enemy (with gaunts popping out to increase the spread), would allow you to box in enemy units with ease. Then when mawlocs arrive, enemy units are destroyed without a chance of any save whatsoever. Note that with most vehicles you don't have to surround it entirely, you just have to box opposing corners, which is very easy to do with a trio of lictors, or a squad of gaunts popping out of a spore. Using TMC's with wings increases the effectiveness.

The beauty of it is that while lictors/mawlocs/gaunts struggle with AT, the units which require high str to counter are the ones best killed by this tactic. I can draw pictures if it's unclear, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on whether this is worth pursuing further.

Edit:

This is the sort of deployment I'm talking about; my apologies for the poor drawing quality:

This has been talked about in the past, and the general consensus is that the lictors are still too expensive to make this work.

For example, if your lictors dont come in on the same turn your mawloc scatters up, the plan fails. If your mawloc scatters at all, the plan fails. Even if the plan works and you kill a valuable unit, Mawlocs and Lictors are vulnerable to counter attack versus most things in the game.

Also, you opponent could see this coming, see that you have no real threats, and deploy spread out. By spreading out correctly you have no way to box him in, and have to hope your s6 lictor shooting and s6 mawlocs kill all the enemy boxes.

DevianID wrote:

For example, if your lictors dont come in on the same turn your mawloc scatters up, the plan fails. If your mawloc scatters at all, the plan fails. Even if the plan works and you kill a valuable unit, Mawlocs and Lictors are vulnerable to counter attack versus most things in the game.

With everything in the army able to deep strike, the odds of not being able to box at all aren't great. Likewise, the mawloc can scatter half a large blast-marker's worth and generate the same result against any vehicle if it's properly boxed. That said, I'll admit that the whole idea hinges quite a bit on random chance, and if you whiff, Lictors and Mawlocs are probably not going to pull out the win.

Also, you opponent could see this coming, see that you have no real threats, and deploy spread out. By spreading out correctly you have no way to box him in, and have to hope your s6 lictor shooting and s6 mawlocs kill all the enemy boxes.

Spreading out reduces the number of units that could be killed, but it can't prevent a kill entirely, and reduces the weight of return fire. Every single unit deep strikes, so as long as you roll for the mawlocs last, you should be able to tag at least one or 2 units. An army that spread out would also be vulnerable to concentrated firepower from bringing the whole force to bear against only a portion of the enemy.

A foolish player running an IG parking lot could stand to lose 2 tanks per blast marker, but even not counting on stupidity, the ability to alpha strike the most threatening units with no chance of return fire is still attractive in my mind. Clustered deployments are more vulnerable to the mawloc wipe, and spread out deployments are vulnerable to focus fire from a large collection of DS units arriving in a refused flank. I'm not saying it's foolproof, but I don't want to dismiss it out of hand just yet. Thanks for the input though.

I'd guess it's a bit much to ask if someone actually spent the cash on 9 lictors and 3 mawlocs and tried this?

The list could also be changed up to run a hive commander tyrant for the bonus on the reserve rolling, though that may be foolish considering the pts cost.

The main problem with tbhis is that the lictors needs to come in on turn 2, and you can pull the treick turn 3. Providing the mawlocks are not dead or have not deep striked yet.

Not that impressive from a list that is othervice quite weak.

I agree with the guy above me.

1.5k of my Mawloc Surprise list.

Hive Tyrant with Hive Commander(Heavy Venom Cannon; Hive Commander; Old Adversary) 245 pts
Hive Guard 60pts

Tervigon (Adrenal Glands; Toxin Sacs; Stinger Salvo) 195pts

Lictor 65pts
Lictor 65pts
Lictor 65pts

Termagant Brood x13 models (vanilla) 65pts

Genestealers x 12 (vanilla)
Broodlord x 1 (Scything Talons) 230pts

Mawloc 170pts
Mawloc 170pts
Mawloc 170pts

Hive Commander is a must in order to get the lictor deploy on turn 2. Also, Mawloc can start on table and during the movement phase, they can burrow and auto come out in the next turn using deep strike rule.
IMO this army list is best suite against camping army such as IG, Tau or Orks.

Niiai wrote:The main problem with tbhis is that the lictors needs to come in on turn 2, and you can pull the treick turn 3. Providing the mawlocks are not dead or have not deep striked yet.

Not that impressive from a list that is othervice quite weak.

I guess I wasn't clear on the point of the lictors. The Mawlocs can be guaranteed to arrive on turn 2 because of the trick mentioned 1 post above (deploy on turn 1 normally, burrow), but the lictor pheromone trail is 100% pointless to this. All they have to do is deploy. Lictors don't scatter when they deploy, and mycetic spores can't scatter onto enemy units, so you can DS them within 1" of enemy units without fear. Turn 2 is guaranteed, and they can't shoot you on turn 1 because everything is in reserve. Technically you could accomplish the same thing without lictors arriving at all and still have it work, since everything in the army can DS close to the enemy.

I am not quite following you. I do not think you have thought this through the timing very well, or you are not playing in a local aria that uses a lott of mechs and transports.

I am just trying to picture your deployment and timing and I can not for the live of me think how you are gonne open these tanks or kill these tanks.

The hive tyrant is reserving or walking on. Tervigon outflank or walks on (has feel no pain right?) while genestealers eather delares outflank or hides. Your oponent will spread out, putting transports on the side so if they get charged they will first take out the transport and then be grouped up vs templates/blasts. All long ranged weaponds will be pointed towards systematic threats trying to kill them before shoting next time.

While you have to leave the mawlocks on the table turn 1 eating lasers and rockets if you plan to use your trick while you outflank everything they will be shott on. (Asuming he gets first turn.) Or you can deepstrike them 3+ is still good ods.

However the mawlocks usualy scatters horible and they do not have that good chances of destroying tanks even if they hit them. If they have terminators they will just deploy them in cover.

Of course if some lictors do come on turn 2, you can use the homing abilaty turn 3 provided they have not been killed yet. However, if the mawlock / lictor trick is going to work it will not work until turn 3, witch means that eather you are not having mawlocks come in turn 2, or the mawlocks will be using this trick turn 4. (Providing the lictors are still alive.) However as one who has used mawlocks and other T6 monsters they will die when your oponent focus fire on them and that is not so dificult.

Cool enough.

But as your spore has to come from deepstrrike your hive tyrant will only be abel to use cover on the table. (Although your tervigon could probably get a coversave from behind them.) Also, if you deploy genstealers on the table all my oponents manadge to kill them turn 1 before I can charge, or they deploy so far behind that they die turn 2. (I used to have a lott of big genestealers list. Say hello to dreadnoughts/droppods and hellhounds :p )

I am not saying it is a cool list but it is just not doable with mawlocks and lictors due to timing as it is eather no deepstrike turn 2 and homing turn 3, or deepstrike turn 2 survive, disapear turn 3, and deepstrike turn 4 (if the lictors are alive.) It is horble horible horible.

Do glue the models together though if you have a good feeling. Perhaps it is wonderfull, I have never tryed it, only thought about it.

I apologize, I have not explained clearly enough. The lictor homing ability is completely irrelevant. I'll draw a crude diagram.



As you see here, this deployment is easily achievable with either the lictors or the mycetic spores. Once you box either corner, if the mawloc template touches the vehicle anywhere, the vehicle will die due to its inability to move in any direction without coming within 1" of your units. Roll for arrival of other units first, so that you can be sure to have something boxed before the mawlocs arrive. This will happen in turn 2, in the movement phase, before any units have had the chance to shoot. Does that make a little bit more sense?

Oooooookay.

Before I open a can of wurms, you will have to hit with the spore. Lictors OK. I can se the others die horibly due to mishap. You will also be using a ridicusly amount of points to destroy one wehecul.

Now this is where your tactic will cause a lott of rucus on your local scene and you should hear with tournament oragnisers before you enter. You should probably also take this to the YMDC. (I did search for some old threads but I did not find it.)

The big question is if it by RAW means you try to move the vehicles the shortest posible rout enshuring it in being destroyed. Or if you should move the vehicle the shortest posible route where you can fitt it. If it cannot be fitted anywhere then it is destroyed.

Also, do you calculate this by the center of the big blast template or just try to move the vehicle the shortest posible route to clear it away. This argument can go a lott of ways. If it was a landraider surounded by gargoyles I would not argue, if it was a landraider surounded by some gargoyles but there was a good place to move the land raider would it be destroyed?

Also, if you are going by the notion that you should use the center of the template as your marked and you land on 5 terminators all in one quarter of the center would that mean that they would all be moved slavic from center and out? And if so who moves them, your or the oponent? And if sead cenario happens, if some of the terminators get bunched up as they have big bases and they live the big circle, would some of them be destroyed due to overlaping bases or do you not do it like that?

At the very least discuss this before the game.

PS: I still think it is a minor trick in a bad list, no ofence.

Edit: A link to You Make The Call: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/15.page

My brother plays a build like this and scores underwhelming results.

1. 3 lictors and a mycetic spore and a mawloc are necessary to destroy a vehicle, that can be shot by the lictors on their own without exposing the rest of the units.
2. after the vehicle is destroyed there are passengers disembarking and they may be able to kill the lictors. So you exchange a vehicle for a lictors squad. In my opinion hiveguards create better results.

this concept works only against a parking lot of IG.

1. You make a line of lictors and maybe also Ymgarl stealers and put a few mycetic spores down and completely surround many vehicles at once.
2. You deep strike 3 mawlocs from close to each other starting with the one most far away from your closing front.
3. all mawlocs hit

you get many destroyed vehicles...

IF:

-all these units arrive
-all mawlocs hit (because a deviation results in a mishap for behing on your units...)
the enemy is an idiot

so thats basically the chance of pulling this off for a big difference.