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Hi, this comes up sometimes with my predator side sponsons:

When I'm shooting at a target with my lascannon, does the barrel need to be point exactly at the target?
(I think this is suggested in the diagrams in the rulebook.)

The alternative is that a predator can swing its lascannon to the side and shoot at an angle from the barrel...
This would be ultra-cheesy I think, but in the world of free-pivot moves nothing can surprise me any more.

How do people play this in tournaments?

I doubt that the angle of the gun will matter much, as many people will glue said sponsoons on.

Line of sight is drawn from the mount (the spot where it pivots) - not from the end of the barrel.

The rules actually tell you to point the gun at the target, so no funny curve shots.

Scott-S6 wrote:Line of sight is drawn from the mount (the spot where it pivots) - not from the end of the barrel.

IIRC, the vehicle rules say LoS is drawn along the barrel of the gun. At least for vehicles. I understand this to be the line drawn by connecting the gun's mount and the end of the barrell.

Also IIRC the BRB says that you should assume guns have 45° of elevation when mounted on vehicles, and the amount the gun can swing left and right is basically labeled 'common sense'. Does it look like the gun can do it? If yes, then it can. If not then it can't.

You aren't supposed to glue your sponsons in, so move the gun to see if it can hit.

-cgmckenzie

Well that's an entirely unhelpful answer, since the OP is specifically talking about if you DID glue your gun barrel on.

If you did indeed glue your barrel in place, it would be helpful to have another model with an unglued sponson so you could see the full range of movement, if that's not possible, use common sense. Is it mounted on a 360 degree turret, like a razorback? is it blocked by the sides of the vehicle (side sponsons)? Is it mounted on the hull with no swivel, giving it the 45 degree LoS as described in the BRB?

I think the answer to your specific question is yes, the sponsons on the side of a predator may shoot perpendicular to the side of the actual tank, straight out. Those sponsons have a swivel of just over 180 degrees.

Yeah, looking back on that it does seem a bit unhelpful.

Looking at the sponsons on most vehicles will reveal their pivotability. LRBT hits 90 from straight ahead to left/right depending on side. Not sure about what the LOS for the predator is, but if it is a turret it should have 360 unless otherwise specified.

-cgmckenzie

LOS is described as drawn from the weapon mounting down the barrel. So it must be a straight line down the barrel. The exception is vertical traverse, where the rulebook lets you pretend the gun can move up and down 45 degrees. If the weapon is glued in place, you just pretend it's not, and play that it can traverse where it could if it wasn't. Page 49.

The LOS rules for Arc of fire do add several additional allowances for Sponsons, Pintles + etc that are Glued in place(brb page 59).

Sponsons, pintles, and Turrets can fire at anything that it looks like they would be able to turn to for LOS.

Hull mounts(which are almost all stationary in model design) get a 45* cone to fire in(left, right, up, down) when the mount is fixed.

ChrisWWII wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:Line of sight is drawn from the mount (the spot where it pivots) - not from the end of the barrel.

IIRC, the vehicle rules say LoS is drawn along the barrel of the gun.

It says "from each weapons' mounting"

From the mounting down the barrel. You can't, for example, draw LOS from the mountin a direction in which the barrel could not possibly point. Except where explicitly allowed for glued models, hull-mounts, and vertical traverse.

Scott-S6 wrote:
It says "from each weapons' mounting"

page 58, BRB

"...trace Lline of sight from each weapons' mounting and along its barrel..."

You're supposed to point the guns at the target if possible, and if they're glued in, you can use the guide on the next page to determine how things are meant to face, but you're meant to assume the barrell is still there.

ChrisWWII wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:
It says "from each weapons' mounting"

page 58, BRB

"...trace Lline of sight from each weapons' mounting and along its barrel..."

You're supposed to point the guns at the target if possible, and if they're glued in, you can use the guide on the next page to determine how things are meant to face, but you're meant to assume the barrell is still there.

So if the barrel is glued then you ignore and draw LoS from the weapon mount. The barrel is essentially irrelevant.

My interpretation is that you're supposed to draw LoS along the barrel, and pretend to still do that even if the barrel is glued in place.

Exactly. You can't trace LOS in a direction the barrel could never point if not glued in place but still properly assembled.

So what about Tyranids? Do you expect people to model tiny little articulated joints onto their arms so they can point their weapons at the F$&%*#ing target? For screaming out loud...

warpcrafter wrote:So what about Tyranids? Do you expect people to model tiny little articulated joints onto their arms so they can point their weapons at the F$&%*#ing target? For screaming out loud...

That would teach them to pick the bugs.

Don't monstrous creatures have an arc of view like walkers and such? If not, just add sponsons to the nids and call it a day.

-cgmckenzie

warpcrafter wrote:So what about Tyranids? Do you expect people to model tiny little articulated joints onto their arms so they can point their weapons at the F$&%*#ing target? For screaming out loud...

Last I checked Tyranids had no vehicles.

IIRC MCs choose their targets the same way infantry do.

Mannahnin wrote:Exactly. You can't trace LOS in a direction the barrel could never point if not glued in place but still properly assembled.

So a side sponson on a Leman Russ can't hit anything that is elevated beyond the horizontal plane (hiding in the second story of a building means a Leman Russ side sponson bolter can't hit you if the tank stays level)?

No, there is an allowance for 45 degrees up and down just as there is a 45 degree allowance for hullmounted weapons.

-cgmckenzie

TMC shoot just like infantry do so that doesn't factor in to vehicles

cgmckenzie wrote:No, there is an allowance for 45 degrees up and down just as there is a 45 degree allowance for hullmounted weapons.

-cgmckenzie

I finally found it, page 59 says its a total of 45 degrees (as in 22.5 up or down... for a total of 45 degrees). It even sites the Vindicator model, witch is a total of 45.

ChrisWWII wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:So what about Tyranids? Do you expect people to model tiny little articulated joints onto their arms so they can point their weapons at the F$&%*#ing target? For screaming out loud...

Last I checked Tyranids had no vehicles.

IIRC MCs choose their targets the same way infantry do.

I know, I was just making an analogous comment on how ridiculous this thread is.

Meh, it's a valid question given that the BRB basically says 'use common sense', which is somethin rare supply on occasion.

I always figured 45 degree pivots meant 45 degrees up. From a hull on a baneblade, for instance, you really don't need to be shooting down a whole lot.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:I always figured 45 degree pivots meant 45 degrees up. From a hull on a baneblade, for instance, you really don't need to be shooting down a whole lot.

-cgmckenzie

Sentinels, Valkyries, Vendettas, Storm Ravens, Pintle Storm bolters on most tanks, leman Russ turrets(all of them, of course they can also pivot up and down on their own and mostly just pivot up, but down enough to see a guardsman's head from 3" away), need
I go on? Most/many vehicles have guns mounted above a standing guardsman.

warpcrafter wrote:I know, I was just making an analogous comment on how ridiculous this thread is.

Then I would suspect that you completely missed the point of the thread. Vehicles draw LOS in a way that is very different to other models. Tyranids are ocmpletely irrelevant to the discussion.

Some models have weapons that are habitually pointed at nothing, example, Ghazy. His barrels are pointed at the ground.

This seems to be taking LOS "a little too far." If it is in range and the model "could see" it then you have LOS.