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Well?? does anyone even bother with them? never seen a single player use a mortar team!

I've used 'em a few times - they're handy against Orks and 'Nids and anybody who really packs 'em in tight. They're cheap and can dish out some casualties on the way in, but I've been supremely unlucky with forcing any pinning.

I saw a person pack a full platoon with mortars... around the lines of 21 mortars.
He then added a Psyker Battle Squad to his list and basically pinned whoever he wanted to...

They aren't particularly good considering the current general meta is mech but it might be different where you are so go figure...

If you can reliably roll hits on the scatter dice, then they can do well. But against anything with 4+ or better armor, they won't do much.

They're basically Grenade Launchers without the krak option, and I shudder to imagine a worse weapon than a Grenade Launcher, but a Mortar is basically just that.

Eh they're cheap and the casualties can really add up depending who you're fighting.

But generally since they're pretty much totally negated by mech builds, and marines laugh at them as they are basically bolters against them, most people dismiss them.

Last time I used them was a squad of 3, had the models spare and thought 'why the hell not'... 1 pinned Dev team later

By themselves, they're about as useless as single sniper rifles. In an HWS, they get to use the multiple barrage rule, which makes them much better. It allows them to sort of get around smart players displacing, and it allows them to be deceptively accurate.

The problem, of course, is even with this ability to pick up more hits than you'd expect, they're still rather weak weapons. If you're going against certain targets on a regular basis, then bring them, but otherwise... meh.

That and pinning works a lot less than some would care to conjecture. Really, they're just there for the firepower.

Rogerio134 wrote:Well?? does anyone even bother with them? never seen a single player use a mortar team!

Ailaros uses them. Check him out.


-edit- I should post msg's when i finish them lol >< good timing thar, sneaking in before me

I use them quite often. I run multiple 10-man squads (4-6), keep them cheap (60-65 pts), and give them weapons that synergize with the lasguns (HB or Mortar + GL). The mortars are dirt cheap. They are especially useful for vehicle bubblewrap, as they ignore LoS.

odorofdeath wrote:They're basically Grenade Launchers without the krak option, and I shudder to imagine a worse weapon than a Grenade Launcher, but a Mortar is basically just that.

I'd disagree. The mortar is stronger and has an AP, plus it pins and does not require LoS. Not to mention twice the range. Much better at killing infantry imho. Give them a GL too!

Ailaros wrote:In an HWS, they get to use the multiple barrage rule [which] allows them to be deceptively accurate.

Ros, can you explain this a little? Do you mean because even if the first one misses, the other two may still hit?

That is a bonus. Lately I've been liking having 3 in seperate squads - odds are one hit/round, instead of 1 every three rounds (though more powerful). More pin checks too.

Ailaros wrote:The problem, of course, is even with this ability to pick up more hits than you'd expect, they're still rather weak weapons.

Weak, but strong enough to ignore some armour and glance vehicles, as well as wound most infantry on at least a 4+. Not bad for the cheapest heavy weapon there is.

It's not that Mortars are bad it's just that the Guard Codex offers so much more.

murdog wrote:

Ailaros wrote:In an HWS, they get to use the multiple barrage rule [which] allows them to be deceptively accurate.

Ros, can you explain this a little? Do you mean because even if the first one misses, the other two may still hit?

His point, i am fairly certain, is that with the Multiple Barrage rule even though your opponent may space his models well (possibly making it so you can only get the small blast template over a single model) the succesive shots may cover multiple models because the template only has to keep it's edge touching that of the first template and does not need to have it's centre over a model's base. This also makes it so all the shots land in relatively the same place; buggers you if you roll a high scatter though.

I may not have explained that well but there is a diagram in the Rule Book under "Barrage" and all the rules for how it works for those of you who are unclear.

Peace Out!
Jonny!

I played against a guard player who had like fifteen mortars. Because I happened to be playing Tau and on a board with no area terrain, they blew the crap out of my kroot (no armor, no cover). One of the kroot units nearly got inside the 12" minimum range with an outflank, but didn't quite make it.

But that's about the only situation I can think of where they'd be really useful, and that's extremely rare. The mortars did nothing against my crisis and broadside suits except slow the game waaaay down with all those complicated scatter rolls leading eventually up to my one or two 3+ saves.

I mix them with Sniper Rifles and they work...ok, they do work well vs orks, If you are lucky you are making them make a Pinning Test, some time with a good scatter you can for 2 mobs to make one.

I took a unit of HWS mortars in the last ed. and i'm very good at guessing ranges. I manged two wounds out of four games regardless of excellent accuracy and both saved. It's a useless weapon against MEQ's so I refuse to take them on that basis. I can see the charm against horde though. Stick them behind cover to provide your front line with support with a chance to pin. Whats more is, they're dirt cheap. Just don't expect much from them. I scrapped mine and made it into another unit of heavy bolters for my anti-infantry instead.

I can't help but read this thread title as being really panicked.

Mortars?? Here?? NOW!!??

But I digress. They can be very effective in large numbers, but I wouldn't field them in concentrations fewer than, say, six.

murdog wrote: Ros, can you explain this a little? Do you mean because even if the first one misses, the other two may still hit?

So, there are two things that make mortars in HWSs deceptively hitty. The first is that if the ranging shot scatters, it's still possible to get a round on the target with the remaining two scatter die. Remember that you can resolve the other two shots in any order, so the scatter die can always be used to their best advantage. This is especially true with hits on non-ranging shots. Not only can this be used to hit choicer target clusters within a unit (or two different units if you want), but it also allows long-off misses to magically become hits sometimes...


(from this article)

In this case, if the ranging shot scattered, but the second two rolled a scatter in the opposite direction, and a hit, then you can still land a mini-pie exactly where you aimed.

Part of the accuracy thing as well is the big flexibility that you get with your non-ranging shots, allowing you to have a degree of control over where you want your blast templates to land that you simply can't find outside of the multiple barrage rule. For example...

RubberJonny wrote:His point, i am fairly certain, is that with the Multiple Barrage rule even though your opponent may space his models well (possibly making it so you can only get the small blast template over a single model) the succesive shots may cover multiple models because the template only has to keep it's edge touching that of the first template and does not need to have it's centre over a model's base. This also makes it so all the shots land in relatively the same place; buggers you if you roll a high scatter though.

If your opponent displaces, they move their troops to hurt the number of hits you get, but with multiple barrage, you get to move the templates themselves to follow. If your opponent partially displaces, you can sort of be able to make sure your templates cover the tightlier packed groups of models instead of the more displaced ones.

The problem with blast weapons, especially small blasts, is that your opponent can do things to seriously curb the amount of hits that you get, and the amount of damage you do over all. The multiple barrage rule allows you to counter some of this, making small blast template weapons with this rule vaguely viable.

The problem, of course, is that they're still only S4 with crap AP, so they're still not doing much damage, regardless of their extra hits n things.

A friend I used to play 40k against used them and the griffon a lot even against elite armies, he was very very good at guessing ranges though.... End result was usually my eldar bombed to death

I prefer using autocannons, as they have higher strength and the crew does the aiming for you (don't have to guess range), as opposed to mortars. The upside of mortars is that they don't require a line of sight. If I were you, then I would get a HWS or two of mortars and just stick um in the rear of your army. Don't entirely rely on them, as you're not guaranteed to hit. A friend of mine has a single base of them, and they work really well against flanking guants. Maybe just stick a squad of 5-10 guard near the mortar team for protection against anything that comes too close for comfort. Of cours i don't have to worry with my Tau, as my codex doesn't even mention mortars. As a matter of fact, it has been years since they've made a new Tau codex
OOPS! Sorry for babbling on!

There's no guessing in 5th edition, just check range and roll scatter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ailaros wrote:


(from this article)

In this case, if the ranging shot scattered, but the second two rolled a scatter in the opposite direction, and a hit, then you can still land a mini-pie exactly where you aimed.

Don't both the subsequent shots have to touch the ranging shot?

Yeah, Ailaros I think you've got it wrong. The subsequent shots have to touch the ranging shot, you can't do that daisy chain you showed up there. The barrage rules still make mortars deceptively accurate, but not as much as you're showing.

if the enemy isn't mech and isn't marines (or MEQ) they are great...unfortunatly no other armies exist in 40k these days due to GW players having no imagination so meh

ChrisWWII wrote:Yeah, Ailaros I think you've got it wrong. The subsequent shots have to touch the ranging shot, you can't do that daisy chain you showed up there. The barrage rules still make mortars deceptively accurate, but not as much as you're showing.

Ah, well this article was written back in 4th ed, it must be different now.

Still, you can hit, even when you miss, at least much moreso than with non-multiple-barrage weapons.

Ailaros wrote:
Ah, well this article was written back in 4th ed, it must be different now.

Still, you can hit, even when you miss, at least much moreso than with non-multiple-barrage weapons.

Yeah, it's probably 4th ed thing. I wouldn't know, I started in 5th ed.

That being said, it is still very accurate, and I'd consider taking them if I had a few more to give myself enough volume of fire to make them worthwhile.

One thing I will point out is a funny little niche that mortars have- lootaz. Every game I've seen mortars vs lootaz, the pinning/morale checks have absolutely smashed the lootaz

Hehe, now you're gonna see Guard armies always taking a unit or two of Mortars, just for when they're up against Loota heavy Kan walls and the like.

I have 3 mortar teams, and as a single unit, they can do something, but not alot. I'd rather just go with heavy bolters.

My main reason for the mortar hate is their limited range. Most armies will get withing your minimum range quickly. If you use them to hammer a rearward unit in the enemy's line, then maybe.

The diagram above works, as when you get a hit on the second or third shot, it just has to touch any template of the barrage, so with hits you can walk the shot to a target.

I use two HWSs of them, they come in useful for hitting units just blown out of transports or to pick away at objective holders.

Dice_Junkie wrote:My main reason for the mortar hate is their limited range. Most armies will get withing your minimum range quickly. If you use them to hammer a rearward unit in the enemy's line, then maybe.

I'm fairly certain there is no minimum range for a mortar.

murdog wrote:

Dice_Junkie wrote:My main reason for the mortar hate is their limited range. Most armies will get withing your minimum range quickly. If you use them to hammer a rearward unit in the enemy's line, then maybe.

I'm fairly certain there is no minimum range for a mortar.

Check your rules they do and its the same as most heavy weapons for the IG.

As for hitting the target re read the barrage rules, you place the first template as per scatter, the subsequent scatter rolls determine where the other two shots touch the 1st unless your roll a hit to which you are free to place the template as long as it touches any part of an existing template.

Why people post without checking the rules is beyond me.

Now for the main point I was going to make, mortars only have one place in the IG dex and thats in HWS, anywhere else its a waste. Now I don't care who I face or what you theory hammer internet posters say, they do two jobs and do them well.
Job 1: Causing regular wounds- no matter the enemy no matter the target no matter the mission, usually mortars will score some kind of hit, that hit will translate to wounds and models will fail their saves. One lucky termi kill or an couple of marines and you've almost made back your points. In the one off right situation you'll be glad you took them.
Job 2: Deep strike restriction, I dont care what s'wolve, long fang spam trends in right now, all I see on a regular basis is deep striking and out flanking units which with a few HWS soon find landing behind enemy lines very dangerous and landing infront suicide. Therefore I like to saturated areas to with units to prevent that sternguard droppod or armour busting dread.

So there you have it, throw the theory book out of the friggin window, field some and dont look back. Trust me, that 1 in 100 game where you land 12-15 terminator wounds is worth every moment of the other 99 games just to watch the opponent sweat.




More than 2 squads is useless and not game winning, but 1-2 HWS with mortars can do wonders.

MrWhippy wrote:

murdog wrote:
I'm fairly certain there is no minimum range for a mortar.

Check your rules they do and its the same as most heavy weapons for the IG.

Page 69 Mortar: Range 48"

MrWhippy wrote:Why people post without checking the rules is beyond me.

Thankyou for the lulz

Peace!

I use them occasionally as i still have an unbuilt heavy weapons squad and my friends are nice they are only really usefull against swarm armies and you have to be able to guess range effectively.

Selafyne wrote:I use them occasionally as i still have an unbuilt heavy weapons squad and my friends are nice they are only really usefull against swarm armies and you have to be able to guess range effectively.

No you don't.... READ THE RULES PEOPLE!

Its a simple scatter dice and two normal dice that determine where the first one lands.

If your ability to guess ranges is as competent as reading rules then no wonder no one uses mortars.

MORTARS OWN!!!!! for less points than an armour sentinel, you get some template pinning hell