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I've been contemplating on whether which unit to bring to battle. its always been a difficult decision for me but i always end up bringing banshees for the power weapons and striking first. I'd like to share some wisdom out there for any scorpion users. please educate me.

Out of the 2, I always like scorpions myself but they are about the same.

Scorpions are better at killing hordes, and banshees MEQs.

Of course the best choice is Harlequins.

Banshees are better in a mech list for fleet power weapons and ini 10.

In a tournament however just bring more dragons. Banshees cannot measure up to dragons.

Scorpions can be cool in a foot list to funnel enemies into a wraithwall with the threat of outflank.

Personally, I'm not a large fan of banshees in serpents (and on foot they are worthless =/ ).
The fact that assaulting out of a wave serpent is a difficult task and not too hard to counter really makes it difficult to play them with any sort of effective strategy other than to just sit in the serpent and hope your opponent happens to place some units within range of your rear hatch.

Scorpions... I usually don't take either (preferring to take either Fire Dragons for Mech armies, or Harlies for foot), but at least they give you the option to outflank and threaten enemy gunlines, and in my mind makes them better than banshees, though both of them have huge flaws.

Honestly, for a tournament list, I'd probably leave both at home =/

I concur--in a tournament (mech) list the only Elite choice worth taking is fire dragons.

At a tournament, you'll win or lose mainly based on the maneuvering of your wave serpents (and falcons if you have dire avengers inside them) and to some extent on the strength of your shooting. In the current codex, assault Eldar is a non-starter for tournament play.

If you're playing a foot list then you need counter assault. Out of the two I prefer scorps as they are more survivable and give me more options than banshees.

There is another option IMHO, Dire Avengers with shimmershields and defend. This unit beats THSS termies, as knocking them down to 1 attack, with a fortuned 5++, is really good. Plus they shoot great, and are scoring, and are cheaper than banshees and scorpions.

Banshees suffer from the abundance of invuln saves on uber-units nowadays, and a lack of an invuln save of their own. Scorpions deal with invuln units better, but still dont beat uberunits. If I had to pick Banshees or Scorpions I would go with scorpions for the better chance to deal with hordes and uber units, and the s6 powerfist.

No. Just, no. If you have to choose between using a non-melee unit to melee with, and just avoiding combat all together, choose to avoid combat. Out run them, don't engage them.

Giving them a farseer is terrible. Yes, defend reduces them down to one attack, but it only takes one to turn that farseer to goo. Now you have lost a lynchpin unit in your army. Not only that, but look at the amount of point you add to that slot by including said farseer. Of course it is statically going to be better, you are running around with a 275 - 300 point squad not counting transport. The terminators ring in at 200. And guess what, even after you beat them, they will have lost five terminators, you will have lost a farseer and had a troop choice crippled.

In short, can avengers be used in close combat? Probably. But so can long fangs. That doesn't mean that is where they should be.
Don't spend the points on defend, it's wasted, don't spend the points on a shimmer shield and power weapon, as the dual catapults are better.


I stand by my earlier statement for fun, either works. For tournaments, leave them both at home.

Well, I'd take Scorpions in a Serpent and let them outflank.
Banshees will hit first in cc but against a cc unit they have no staying power and die easily.

Amanax I suggest you either try the Dire Avengers, or rethink your statement. Or even run the numbers. Dire avengers with shields and defend ARE a close combat unit, despite what you may think. The fact they also have 2 shots instead of 1 pistol shot doesnt change that.

Also, why does the farseer have to be attached to the avengers?

I think he was referring to the rerollable 5+ save from fortune. As this needs to be cast within 6" the farseer needs to be close if not part of the unit.

True the farseer needs to be within 6 inches, but the unit has a transport he could hide in and extend his range from... plus when is it a good idea for a eldar tourney list to NOT have a farseer? In fact, if you have Eldrad you want him in combat, since his rerollable 3++ and wounds on 2+ power weapon help out with almost no chance of dying, especially in a defend DA unit.

I have run the numbers, and they are awful.

I'll go open a new thread

Banshees all the way.

I don't know why people would believe that banshees in a WS are bad. They've always been one of my best units in all my games.

I run ten banshees with farseer in a wave serpent. the usual upgrades like executioner and counter attack.

That means you will always have 30 initiative 10 power weapon attacks! If your enemy is doomed, I challenge them to survive.

Banshees n a WS are not bad.
But they need the right unit to charge. Otherwise they are useless.

I use a squad of 10 banshees in a WS with a doomseer,
Getting the WS in the right spot so they can jump out and charge while not having the door blocked takes a little fiddeling but once you figure it out they work pretty well
Not much that can survive the charge let alone strike back, although fortune is also good to give the farseer, though with the spirit stones you'd need he starts getting too points heavy for a support character IMO

In an all comers list when choosing between banchees and scorpions the most practical answer is always more fire dragons.

schadenfreude wrote:In an all comers list when choosing between banchees and scorpions the most practical answer is always more fire dragons.

We have not always the same opinion but here I agree. You cannot have enough fire dragons (plus delivery system) in an Eldar army.