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Hello all,

after few games today, i am about to throw both of mine SR's into trash... I mean GK's with all that AV10-13 denial, is just way too crazy for anything bellow av 14 to survive long enuff. Therefore i would like to ask if there is any other way how to stay competetive, besides spaming AV 14 from a BA point of view. Moreover still build army that has a chance against IG,DE etc... How do you deal with the new meta?

List i came up

Skip armour altogether, and let them waste their high S weapons on your troops
If you have no armour, their expensive tank-killers will fall to your onslaught.

Local meta has lots of 7-8 str shots running around to blow up transports, skimmers, and light tanks. Expect those SR's to go down if that's going to be most of the armor you bring.

With AV10-13, target saturation is key, the more targets he has to decide between to shoot, the more likely one or two of them are going to be able to do their job.

Or, you can skip AV10-13 all together and let your opponent waste all those autocannons, missile launchers,etc on non-optimal targets.

Skinnereal wrote:Skip armour altogether, and let them waste their high S weapons on your troops
If you have no armour, their expensive tank-killers will fall to your onslaught.

The issue with the GK is that Psycannons shred light armour as well as infantry. Autocannons are also decent against infantry.

Gk's are perfect to counter DoA , because their fancy anti-DS spells. Moreover still have enough shots to cripple my force landing, which would be exposed to one turn of psycannon/psydread fury...

On the other hand, i was thinking about hammernator with FNP spam as they struggle against them...still i am trying to build a universal army not just to counter Gk's.



Well, still if they are facing lot of AV 14, all their ML’s/AC’s/PsyC’s are there just hopping for few glances....well useless from T1

Gk do best against av10,11, and 14

13 does fine against gk long range firepower.

3 vindicaators+ 3 baal is still a viable mech build, you just have to be good at protecting av11 flanks.

schadenfreude wrote:Gk do best against av10,11, and 14

13 does fine against gk long range firepower.

3 vindicaators+ 3 baal is still a viable mech build, you just have to be good at protecting av11 flanks.

This. You are spending way too many points on land raiders in that size army.

Also consider a pure jump pack deep strike army. Very good unless they use a lot of strikes. you can even forgo deepstriking and just all on attack.

ph34r wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Gk do best against av10,11, and 14

13 does fine against gk long range firepower.

3 vindicaators+ 3 baal is still a viable mech build, you just have to be good at protecting av11 flanks.

This. You are spending way too many points on land raiders in that size army.

Also consider a pure jump pack deep strike army. Very good unless they use a lot of strikes. you can even forgo deepstriking and just all on attack.

Doa players need to learn how to play without deep striking.
Psyfleman dread should not scare a doa army. Because they still get their 3+ armor save.
Halberds are too expensive on strikes so jump spam would work against strikes.

Mass purifiers are the end of a doa list. Doa can't deal with 2a/model with i6 power weapon attacks.

BloodTzar wrote:
after few games today, i am about to throw both of mine SR's into trash... I mean GK's with all that AV10-13 denial, is just way too crazy for anything bellow av 14 to survive long enuff.

Nothing about GKs changed anything there. Killing transports has been the name of the game for some time.

Nothing about GKs changed anything there. Killing transports has been the name of the game for some time.

Psy ammo made that just much esier...

first, you need to ask yourself these questions.


are GKs common in my area?

will they show up to competitive enviroments in large numbers?



if the answer to either question is no, then you have no real reason to tailor. if there is a 15 man tournament and there are 2 GK players. you have a 14.2% chance of getting GKs in the 1st game. fairly low. 2nd and 3rd game chances can't be quantified as those are dependent on your and their scores in the previous games.

Sorry Grey Templar, i dont see any logic behind your advice, i mean i see more n more people picking up GK as the new army, sure its nothing like IG,SW now but soon i think it will become more populated ... specially by WAAC players.

So i dont see any revelance, in "praying" not countring one GK army, which much likely will rape most ASR spam armies...

unless you have a significant chance to encounter a GK army, there isn't much point in changing your list, expecially if it leaves you vulnerable to armies that are more common.



and even if GKs change the Meta, that might be a good thing. expect to encounter a wider varity of armies.

I don't see GK changing the meta all that much. Sure they pop AV11 pretty easily, but there are still a ton of armies that have a lot of melta to throw around. Melta will still keep AV14 from becoming too popular. There may be some potential for more foot based armies to show up, but I think Mech will still be king.

Exactly what Creeping Dementia said. I think if you switch to a bunch of Landraiders, you'll be posting again in a month about how Imperial Guard bring too many meltas and there is no point to AV14...

Gks are actually pretty good against AV14.


rending shots become pretty scary when they are tossing upwards of 20 dice per turn.

Grey Templar, it takes 44 psycannon shots to have a 66% chance of killing a Land Raider. So of course my opponents kill me with 8 shots lol!

As for only 20 dice a turn, I wish it were so! The GK player near me has 40 a turn, plus 6 melta and 3 psydreads!

But anyway to the OP, AV14 is still a very valid metagame GK or not, as is mechspam. I think the OP's problem is more with storm ravens than with GK. Stormravens cant be both a transport and a gunship at the same time, yet they pay the points for that ability. If they could fire the missiles along with the other 2 weapons when moving 12 I think they would have been fine, but alas they cant. Due to that, I would rather a rhino/razorback and a combi-pred for the SR cost.

On the other hand, i was thinking about hammernator with FNP spam as they struggle against them...still i am trying to build a universal army not just to counter Gk's.

Well, FnP is useless if you fight GK in cc.
Hammernators will struggle vs. GK Termies as they'll mostly hit first with their force weapons and eventually carry a banner giving them +1A.
After all, GKT have a 4+ inv save in cc.

wuestenfux wrote:
After all, GKT have a 4+ inv save in cc.

Not everyone. Most people run a couple of halberds and a daemon hammer, and if you've got a banner that's another dude without sword.

I think there are still enough people who run meltaguns to make going all-Land Raider a difficult option. That's not even mentioning all the strength ten ordinance/monstrous creature stuff out there.

Bottom line is, your transports will never be safe. My advice would be to have a single raider and around 4-6 (points depending) rhinos and razorbacks in support. It's a more balanced approach and will (hopefully) allow you to deal with more opponents.