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So recently I have played a few games using the following 2,000 point list:

Crowe - 150
Calidus Assassin OR Vindicare Assassin - 145
10 Purifiers (4x Psycannons, 5x Halberds, Hammer, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon any Psybolt Ammo) - 380**
10 Purifiers (4x Psycannons, 5x Halberds, Hammer, Rhino) - 335
6 Purifiers (2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Hammer, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) - 225
6 Purifiers (2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Hammer, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) - 225
Land Raider (Multi-Melta, Psybolt Ammo) - 270
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo) - 135
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo) - 135
Total 2,000

**The 10 Purifiers with the Razorback ride in the Land Raider, and Crowe jumps into their empty Razorback on the first turn.

I've been quite happy with how it performs, but I don't really like the Assassin. No matter which one I use, neither seems to do a whole lot. In the last two games, the Callidus appeared and killed a couple of guys in a unit, then got shot to death by something S8. In previous games, the Vindicare suffered a similar fate, or was forced to move due to poor LoS and deployment issues. It seems that if I went first, he would cause minor damage to a vehicle or take out a heavy weapon, then get shot and die. If my opponent went first, he would get shot and die before he did anything unless I positioned him out of LoS behind a vehicle or something, but my opponent would wreck that vehicle and force the Vindicare to move to a different location. Normally I wouldn't mind since they would have drawn fire away from the rest of the list, but they are a little expensive to be fire magnets, especially when they only draw a single missile or a Multi-Melta.

So, what I need are suggestions for replacing the Assassin. Everything else seems to work just fine as-is, but that one model just doesn't pull its weight. Normally I would replace it with another Dreadnought, but I don't have the room to do so unless I make some drastic changes that I would rather stay away from. I was thinking that if I ditched the Assassin and took the Assault Cannon off Crowe's Razorback, I would have enough points for a Librarian to ride with the Purifiers in the Land Raider, but that would mean I would have to convert it into a Redeemer which cuts down on ranged anti-tank a bit. Alternatively I could replace the Assasin/Assault Cannon with an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with Rad Grenades, and some Henchmen to make up for swapping the Land Raider. I hesitate to do this though, because I don't think they fit with the flavor of the list.

Any suggestions would be helpful. I'm pretty set on the general composition of the list, so I would prefer suggestions that make minimal changes to the unit selection, but I am open to swapping wargear or making minor adjustments to fit something.

Increase Psycannon Saturation and Body Count:
Crowe - 150
10 Purifiers (4x Psycannons, 5x Halberds, Hammer, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) -345
10 Purifiers (4x Psycannons, 5x Halberds, Hammer, Rhino) - 335
6 Purifiers (2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Hammer, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) - 225
6 Purifiers (2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, Hammer, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) - 225
5 Purifiers (2x Psycannons, 3x NFS, Rhino) -180
Land Raider (Multi-Melta, Psybolt Ammo) - 270
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo) - 135
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo) - 135
Total 2,000

OR
Increase St.8 Shooting at expense of some hidden hammers. Crowe can always fire his storm bolter out the top of the Rhino
Crowe - 150
Venerable Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo) -195
10 Purifiers (4x Psycannons, 5x Halberds, Hammer, Rhino) - 335
10 Purifiers (4x Psycannons, 5x Halberds, Hammer, Rhino) - 335
6 Purifiers (2x Psycannons, 4x Halberds, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) - 222
6 Purifiers (2x Psycannons, 4x Halberds, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) - 222
Land Raider (Multi-Melta, Psybolt Ammo) - 270
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo) - 135
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo) - 135
Total 1999

I have had the exact same problem except i completely rebuilt my list.

1 thing i noticed is why have you got pysbolt on the land raider? Doesnt really need it and if its a crusader (im assuming it isnt) it loses the defensive weapons.

If you lose the pysbolt on the land raider and the assassin, this would give you 150points to play with.

What i would do is take another purifier squad x5, 2xpsycannons, 2xhalberds, 1xhammer - 149points.

As you already have enough transport what i would say is continue with you tactic of moving crowe and the 10man purifiers, but take the new purifier squad with crowe in that razorback.

Gives you more models on the table and adds to the purifier spam.

Hope it helps.

Deathcult0 wrote:
As you already have enough transport what i would say is continue with you tactic of moving crowe and the 10man purifiers, but take the new purifier squad with crowe in that razorback.

Crowe lacks the ruling to attach him to squads, this is why crowe is awful except against big ICs and MCs where he can just DS them down.

seanzor wrote:

Deathcult0 wrote:
As you already have enough transport what i would say is continue with you tactic of moving crowe and the 10man purifiers, but take the new purifier squad with crowe in that razorback.

Crowe lacks the ruling to attach him to squads, this is why crowe is awful except against big ICs and MCs where he can just DS them down.

I understand that, no need to attach him to the purifier squad. Or just DS the additional squad.
Although as you suggested the replacement of the razorback with the rhino would also work pretty well as an extra rifleman dreadnought.

Purifiers cannot Deep Strike. Only Strike Squads, Interceptors and models in Terminator Armor can Deep Strike. Though oddly, because Crowe is not an Independent Character, a Grandmaster could give him Scout so he could outflank, or make him a scoring model, which is amusing if nothing else.

Psybolt Ammo is only 5 points on a Land Raider and turns the Heavy Bolter into a weapon that can deny FNP to Dark Eldar and wreck light vehicles like Land Speeders or Raiders/Venoms. It also wounds Marines on a 2+ instead of a 3+ which makes it a little better against heavy infantry.

As for the changes, I thought about adding another unit in a Rhino and it does seem like a decent idea. I rejected the idea of taking a Venerable Dreadnought though because I would have to sacrifice melee potential in the smaller units against tough enemies like MC's and Dreadnoughts. Doesn't seem worth it to add another ranged Dreadnought.

I also considered re-arranging things a bit and trying out a Stormraven alongside the Land Raider, but it would probably weaken the list a bit overall due to their vulnerability. Still, since I like the model, I might pick one up to run in friendly games and do something else in tournaments.

When I talk of Crowe and DSing I speak Divine Sacrifice Sorry for any confusion.

True, lack of ArPen is a turn off from a triumvirate of PR Dreads, 4+ armor can be killed in numbers of ways. And you've got some AT in other places as is.

If you take a StormRaven, take 2...Drop Land Raider at that point and then also try to squeeze in a Librarian with Shrouding. Put both 10 Man squads in them and drop the rhino. keep razorback for crowe...

I don't like the dual Stormraven idea. I think it needs a harder target alongside it with a big, threatening unit inside to draw fire or it will get shot down way too early. A second Stormraven cannot absorb fire the way a Land Raider can, so if I go that route I think I will stick with the single. I do like the idea of 2x Stormravens and 1x Land Raider, but I cannot feasibly fit that into a Crowe list at 2,000 points so it's off the table right now.

Well, 3+ cover save is the draw for Stormravens. But you have to believe that your luck is better than your percieved luck of your opponent.

Stormravens are a touchy place. You either have to really comp your list around them or just leave them at home. Honestly with your list I would leave them at home...

Fun games with them for sure though. They have a fun little flavor.

In order to get the 3+ save though I would have to take a Librarian which wouldn't really fit in the list without some big changes. As for luck, I don't generally build my lists with luck in mind. I prefer to go off statistics, because luck can run high or low on any given day, but statistics will generally give me a better view of how I should expect any given unit to perform in a vacuum. Knowing that, I can gauge what I want to include in a list design.

Additionally, when making a list I often think of how I would go about beating it if I were on the other side of the table. What targets would I prioritize and how would I split my fire under normal circumstances? Using other lists that I've designed for my other armies, what would I likely do to stop what the list is designed to accomplish? Having though about that, I make changes to maximize my chances of success. So far it's worked relatively well, and in this case I'm just at a bit of an impasse and want some additional opinions.

Personally Ald, I would go with a 5 man Strike Squad in Psybolt Back (will need to drop a few extra items somewhere, or make the land raider into a redeemer). The razorback gives you additional long range support and target saturation, while the strike squad gives you warp quake as an option and another scoring unit (with low priority at that).
145 points with no HS slot is rough for GK, personally I think having the option to protect yourself from DS based lists is nice. In other games you can reserve them and DS later.