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During a game today, my Chosen fired at a Rhino from inside their own transport and blew it up. When I ten tried ro use the twin-linked boltegun on the Chosen's rhino to fire at them, an issue arose: my opponent said that the rhino, being dedicated and with the troops still inside, couldn't target a different unit than the one the chosen had: I.e, the chosen fired at a rhino, so the vehicle boltgun could only fire at the same rhino, who was no longer there.

I argued that the vehicle weapon is a different unit that just happen to be carrying others, and the other people around couldn't clarify the issue. The rulebook also yelded no answers. We shosen to say it couldn't be done to keep the game going.

How do you guys play it?

You were correct. The Rhino and the squad are separate units and may target separate enemy squads. I believe this is covered in the Warhammer 40,000 Main Rulebook FAQ as well.

Ghaz wrote:You were correct. The Rhino and the squad are separate units and may target separate enemy squads. I believe this is covered in the Warhammer 40,000 Main Rulebook FAQ as well.

I'll look for the proper entry. I still won, so no biggie. Thanks for the info.

It's page 92, maybe? With the mission rules. Multiple Unit Choices, or something similar. A dedicated transport, from the beginning of the game to the end of the game, is always a separate unit from its squad, for all purposes.

Just because two units are bought as part of the same force org selection doesn't make them no longer two units.

Ask him if the Chosen must always move with the Rhino (i.e. may never disembark and move independently), or if you can allocate shots at the vehicle to the models inside.

If that were the case, then he'd have a good argument for claiming that they are the same unit and must do everything together. But that's not the case.

The rules in the BRB (pg. 66) make no stipulation that the transported unit is limited to shoot at the target of the vehicle or vise versa. The only things listed are, only one person can shoot out of a fire port (unless stated other wise in vehicle entry), ranges are measured from fire port, if vehicle has moved then the unit inside is counted as moved in regards to shooting, if vehicle moved at cruising speed. Also, like Mannahnin said, on page 92 (BRB) under "Multiple Unit Choices." It says that some Codex will allow a player to get several units at the cost of only one force organization chart slot (dedicated transport are the example listed), but it goes on to say that even though they are bought as a single choice, "these units operate and count as separate units in all respects." So, with that being the only things outlined, it to me means that you can shoot transport vehicle guns and embarked guns at different targets.

somerandomdude wrote:Ask him if the Chosen must always move with the Rhino (i.e. may never disembark and move independently), or if you can allocate shots at the vehicle to the models inside.

If that were the case, then he'd have a good argument for claiming that they are the same unit and must do everything together. But that's not the case.

I would love for someone to try the initial argument on me; I'd say: "yeah, sure, ok, you're right" all sincere like, and then as soon as he hit me with a heavy anti-tank weapon(say a Melta) I would just look at him and say: "Ok, I am allocating it to this random Squaddie, Roll to wound". then the moment he tried to argue I would twist his earlier argument right back at him: all while just smugly smiling at him.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:Ask him if the Chosen must always move with the Rhino (i.e. may never disembark and move independently), or if you can allocate shots at the vehicle to the models inside.

If that were the case, then he'd have a good argument for claiming that they are the same unit and must do everything together. But that's not the case.

I would love for someone to try the initial argument on me; I'd say: "yeah, sure, ok, you're right" all sincere like, and then as soon as he hit me with a heavy anti-tank weapon(say a Melta) I would just look at him and say: "Ok, I am allocating it to this random Squaddie, Roll to wound". then the moment he tried to argue I would twist his earlier argument right back at him: all while just smugly smiling at him.

And don't forget that the squaddie in the rhino gets to roll his cover save because he is definitely at least 50% obscured from the shooter...

Mannahnin wrote:It's page 92, maybe?

P3 - definition of a unit.

If they were a single unit then the squad could not embark on the rhino because the whole unit must embark. The rhino could never move faster than 6" because the unit must move at the speed of the slowest member. The rhino would need to stay in coherency with the squad. etc.