Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In my 1750 point list I'm running 2 Defilers right now. I love my deffies, they're my little glass cannon wonders of destroying mobs of units. Big problems: They're not good at singular targets or vehicles, and while they're monsters on a charge in CC (with 2 CC weps instead of their worthless optional arm weps that's 6 attacks with dread weps!), they're guaranteed to die when anything so much as glances in their direction. "Glass Cannon" fits them too appropriately. I haven't had a single game go by so far where they didn't die almost right away, but not before killing a squad or something important.

I've been considering replacing one of them with an Oblit squad. I hear they're a pretty good all-around killer and pretty solid for survivability. I would like to get some more opinions on this though.

I <3 my Land Raider far too much to replace him as my third option. The thing is damn invincible, and I've been considering making him Possessed to avoiding the constant glancing hits he gets, since he has 2 TL-Lascannons anyway.

You've never tested out obliterators?
I would play a few games with them just so you can see how powerful they can be. Obliterators can cut down the mobs pretty well with the option of up to three plasma cannons in a squad at range or three flamers (twin-linked no less) for closer encounters. They're not terrible at CC either as they all have PFs, termie armor, and 2 wounds. They don't have the range of the defiler or the same CC power, but they've got many tools. They're lascannons/multimeltas/twin-linked meltas are great for picking off vehicles or single targets. You can deepstrike them if you want. It's way easier to give them a cover save than it is for a defiler. All in all they are very versatile and very deadly, though a squad of three will cost you more than one defiler. Try them out!

As a regular opponent of CSM I would have to say that nothing inspires quite as much fear as a 3 man squad of Obliterators with good cover. Definitely give them a shot.

Never did like defilers/grinders as I previously posted before.

But I do run an obliterator cult army.

I'd say go for the oblits!

I regularly use both options, and I have to say that I'm on the fence about them. On the one hand, the Defiler is both intimidating and deadly at range against infantry. It's the closest thing we've got to ordinance in the codex, and it's good for killing the vast majority of infantry in the game. Terminators are just about the only thing it can't scratch reliably.

On the other hand, Obliterators are the most versatile heavy support choice in the game, and durable, too. There's literally nothing they cannot kill. That's saying something, right there. The only problem with them is that they don't have a 72" range.

Overall I'd say that the Obliterators are the more versatile choice, and probably the more points-efficient choice as well. You could do what I do and run a 3-man oblit squad with a defiler as backup. Coupled with your land raider, though, that might be a bit of a points-sink...

The points are what I'm worried about now. What about taking the LR out in exchange for an Oblits squad? The LR was mostly just put in there in the first place to cart my Zerk's around with a Sorc with Lash, but I can always give them another Rhino. If Oblits are REALLY that good, and can DS in Termie armor, I can see them replacing my LR anyway.

As someone who has recently just gotten a Defiler after previously running Oblits, I'm going to be honest and say that it does not quite deal out the punishment that they can. I've not had a 100% effective track record with the 'Blits but they will usually be a prime target for all the heavy guns my opponent has for a few turns, really allowing my other vehicles to run around unmolested; a huge boon as you can imagine. Tacking on that they can usually handle the firepower sent their way and return it with equal value with the appropriate gun, they are a shining start within the dark hearted army

I used to run 3x Oblits and 2x Defilers (4x DCCW) @ 1,850 and found that, even though the Defilers worked really well against MEQs, they performed very poorly against Mechanized armies. They simply don't have the punch and accuracy to get through Razorback spam and Mech Vets' armor.

Oblits synergize very well with Lash Sorcerors as well, and they can essentially fire from T1, opening up transports with Lascannons, with the Lash Sorcerors dragging the occupants out of the crater, then smashing them with Plasma Cannons. Brutality!

I'm starting to think I should have been running Oblits this whole time. Damn. And my army was almost undefeated BEFORE this.

I will routinely play with 3 Defilers, They let me hit targets at a greater range, draw tons of fire away from my berzerkers and chosen. They have won me many games. pointswise the save 225 over doin 3x3 oblits squads.

Just for reference I know I am in the minority here in liking the Defilers over the Oblits.

Personally I would say go with 9 Obliterators and 2 Lash Sorcerers. This combination is what EVERY SINGLE CHAOS PLAYER at my FLGS uses. It gets old with opponents real fast so keep your Defilers for friendly games, but if you do tournaments and competitive play 9 Obliterators and 2 Lash Sorcerers as well as 6 Obliterators and 1 Vindicator with 2 Lash Sorcerer will make any opponent from foot slogging Grey Knights to Mech Guard cry.

The only thing you have to beware of is Hoods and Tyranid/Eldar 3D6 psychic tests, Eldar a little more because they are boardwide. Other than that this list is the optimal list for competitive Chaos play. Take out the Land Raider and both Defilers is my opinion.

You could also try 1 Demon Prince with Lash in addition to a Sorcerer with Lash just to give you a little more CC.

Don't forget to put everything in Rhinos and use Plague Marines liberally with Meltaguns for Objective games.

Defilers are pretty bad at CC thanks to their terribad WS 3. However, they can really shine when taken alongside other armor, i.e. DPs, and Dreads.

Oblits are way too good to not at least try. They always have they weapon for the job and are tough to take out in cover.

I've always ran a Defi and oblits. Since I always run Lash Princes pie plates are awesome. But either way you need something to pop transports. I've found that a Pred with lascannon sponsons works just as well. Since you haven't played with them yet try to play test them just to see if they fit in with your army and play style.

I find that defilers, while they pack a can pack a punch, there's usually some sort of cover for MEQ's from the battle cannon are quite good for their points cost.
I must admit though i think the oblits can put out far more damage then the defiler, and you can take 2 for every 1 defiler!

Try them out and see how you like them though, might even get hooked on them

I already have a sorc with lash attached to a zerk squad, with a prince that so far has no real role. Pairing him with the oblits with lash for some ranged damage and CC interception might be fun.

Trading out the LR for a Vindicator though... I'm not so sure about that. I really like twin Lascannons with heavy bolter and combi-flamer... but he is a giant point sink...

Its because defilers are too horrible and massive to hide.

Try obliterators, at least the can be shielded and avoid some LoS

i would give oblit's a go

The thing with running Defilers is it means your army badly wants some long-range high-strength firepower, and the only other places in the FOC where you can access that is in troops (via 10 man CSM squads with heavy weapons and noise marines with blastmasters) or elites (dreadnaughts). Generally those are considered sub-par choices. I don't think they're all that bad myself, but I still go with the Obliterators.

But 3 defilers and 3 dreadnaughts (with, say, missile launchers) across the table is pretty intimidating, don't you think? I think people call it the 'monster mash' build, or something like that...

Yea if only I wasn't scared to run crazy dreads... giving them long range template missile launchers just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

Funny thing is my deffies have never ever hit one of my own units, no matter how close I toss down the pie plate. Dreads would y to hit my own units on purpose, and I'd like to avoid that.

I don't know if you've ever heard this tactic. But you run either 1 or 2 Dreads on either side of a LR. That way if you roll Fire Frenzy you end up shooting 2 S7 plates at a AV 14 tank, so no biggie. Plus Dreads, while not having as many attacks, also has I4 instead of I3. Also Lash works really well if you're close and roll fire frenzy. Move units away, lash a unit closer and then all is still dandy.

Also I've started taking Vindies as well. Now they kinda work the same as a Defi. Looks scary, and can pack one hell of a punch. They draw alot of fire, and has a better AV.

If you arm the dreadnought with a missle launcher and make sure he's always by a tank, you can opt to fire frag missles and bounce harmlessly off.

Naaah real men do the dread Phalanx. 3 dreads with HB arms shoulder to shoulder I used to love throwing that at my ork mates. although considering where LOS (where do vehicles draw LOS from ?) is drawn for a dread, fire frenzy aint that bad really with ML's or PC's.

OP I think you should give 2 oblits a whirl, they do bring something to every fight. Maybe not the exact something you needed, but they bring something effective

As you can see, the support is usually overwhelmingly on the side of obliterators in this argument. I would try them out in place of the LR.

I still think i'll try oblits with defiler and LR before I make the big jump to dropping my LR. The thing is just too useful, even for the point sink... all my HR choices are a big point sink though.

If you have the models, Try monster mash. Its a build that really lets defilers shine.