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Yeah, hard to call deff dread's damage output "very good". If something, i'd rate it below average for the price. Just compare to a marine venerable dread that costs ~the same and easilly outpunches and outshoots a deffdread. Not even telling about easy access to supportive buffs.

I also think that a burna bomber needs a bump to yellow while a blitza bomber needs a downgrade to red. After some playtesting, burna bomber at least has a purpose of frightening the enemy with it's 4+ explosion.

Has anyone tried manz after the point drop? I'll probably have a chance around june.

 koooaei wrote:

....
Has anyone tried manz after the point drop? I'll probably have a chance around june.

When a unit get a point drop and no rules change, what is there really to test in game? I mean I play manz, I know what they are good at and what they can or can't do. None of that has changed. It's nice to get some more spare points, but the unit is still as durable, slow and hit as hard as before.

I liked them and needed them in my army before. The same is true now.

pismakron wrote:
I would not put too much faith in the unit rankings on the first page. The barrier of entry for being top tier in the Ork Index is depressingly low.

Also, the KMK definitely needs to be bumped up several spots.

Every since the points decrease, yeah, they're really good. I actually just bought another kit to bump mine up to three total.

So as someone that could be called a large large Grot with dreams of grandeur I got excited when I saw that a Mek Gunz/ Grot list had placed at a grand tournament, but I’ve seen several people skeptical of this.

I’m completely new to orks, so I’m curious as to what makes Mek Gunz good or bad. Why take them or not take them?

 godswildcard wrote:
So as someone that could be called a large large Grot with dreams of grandeur I got excited when I saw that a Mek Gunz/ Grot list had placed at a grand tournament, but I’ve seen several people skeptical of this.

I’m completely new to orks, so I’m curious as to what makes Mek Gunz good or bad. Why take them or not take them?

The Kustom Mega Kannon is a plasma cannon at BS4+. Because the vast majority of ork shooting is not costed for BS5+, it is one of the few options in the index that are not vastly overcosted.

It's not great, just so-so...but compared to the rest of our shooting it's fantastic.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
So as someone that could be called a large large Grot with dreams of grandeur I got excited when I saw that a Mek Gunz/ Grot list had placed at a grand tournament, but I’ve seen several people skeptical of this.

I’m completely new to orks, so I’m curious as to what makes Mek Gunz good or bad. Why take them or not take them?

The Kustom Mega Kannon is a plasma cannon at BS4+. Because the vast majority of ork shooting is not costed for BS5+, it is one of the few options in the index that are not vastly overcosted.

It's not great, just so-so...but compared to the rest of our shooting it's fantastic.

KMK now outshoots most artilery in the game tbh.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:


KMK now outshoots most artilery in the game tbh.

Yes. At 42 points they have gone from decent to really good. In fact, now they out-shoot Obliterators. The KMK is probably our second best unit after boyz. Regards

Gitdakka wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

....
Has anyone tried manz after the point drop? I'll probably have a chance around june.

When a unit get a point drop and no rules change, what is there really to test in game? I mean I play manz, I know what they are good at and what they can or can't do. None of that has changed. It's nice to get some more spare points, but the unit is still as durable, slow and hit as hard as before.

I liked them and needed them in my army before. The same is true now.

It does matter a whole lot. 3 ppm conscripts were good. 4 ppm conscripts are pointless.

KFF are good with hordes basically because they protect the troops against shooting in turns 1-2 if you go second. That's their main goal. By turn 3 you should have managed to get into assault, otherwise your army is probably dead already.

I've tried meganobz after CA, they're not that bad, I field 3-5 of them all with dual killsaws. For only 6 points more you'll get make the quite better in CC, I'd only leave 1 or maybe 2, in a big unit, equipped with pk and kustom shoota just to be the first one to be removed as casualty.

3 in a trukk or 5 in a BW, sometimes joined by 10 boyz in the wagon. But I play with transports, only in a few occasions I use footsloggers, I don't think meganobz match good with green tides.

Not a tournament unit anyway.

I want to try running them as passangers for 3 big trakks with megaskorchas. Unfortunately, i only have 3 dual killsaw models, so 1 per squad. Others are regular klaws and shootas and 3 with klaws and k-skorchas. If i get the math right, killsaws are almost always better than klaws. The only notable exception are 3-wound models and models that halve recieved damage.

 koooaei wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

....
Has anyone tried manz after the point drop? I'll probably have a chance around june.

When a unit get a point drop and no rules change, what is there really to test in game? I mean I play manz, I know what they are good at and what they can or can't do. None of that has changed. It's nice to get some more spare points, but the unit is still as durable, slow and hit as hard as before.

I liked them and needed them in my army before. The same is true now.

It does matter a whole lot. 3 ppm conscripts were good. 4 ppm conscripts are pointless.

Im not saying it does not matter. They used to cost 63 withsaws now they cost 48. That's nice. But they feel and play pretty much the same on the board as before. I still bring 3 but now i can also bring 6 more boyz.

If there is one new thing they can do after CA it's to mob up 2 units of manz into one huge murder machine. I doubt any one has tried that. They would eat command points, 1 for mob up and 2 everytime they fear morale. I still want to try it some day though. Imagine the synergy. With da jump and warpath

Aren't they 50 points with twin saws and 42 in the cheapest configuration?

At any rate, I think neither option compares well with a Boss Nob with PK and 9 ablative wounds for 73 points. And those ablative wounds can also do a bit of damage.

pismakron wrote:
Aren't they 50 points with twin saws and 42 in the cheapest configuration?

At any rate, I think neither option compares well with a Boss Nob with PK and 9 ablative wounds for 73 points. And those ablative wounds can also do a bit of damage.

Hmm might be so. im using battlescribe, and assumed they got it right.
Well if you compare 10 boyz with pk nob and meganobz, I think there is a lot you can do with concentrated power units that many MSU boyz can't:
-da jump them together
-Transport them together
-charge and cc activate them together.
-fit all the models in cc.

But MSU boyz have other advantages of course. Depends on what you need.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And manz with cover bonus are far more durable than boyz. With cover bonus they ignore lascannonson 4+ and they laugh at small arms fire.
While boyz MSU dies in droves and have to handle the morale effects

How many dual killsaw nobz can you build out of a box of MANz?

With the point drop, they look decent as passengers for battlewagons. I might borrow some before buying them though.

 Jidmah wrote:
How many dual killsaw nobz can you build out of a box of MANz?

With the point drop, they look decent as passengers for battlewagons. I might borrow some before buying them though.

3 killsaw dudes, or 3 combi weapon, or one mekk

pismakron wrote:
Aren't they 50 points with twin saws and 42 in the cheapest configuration?

At any rate, I think neither option compares well with a Boss Nob with PK and 9 ablative wounds for 73 points. And those ablative wounds can also do a bit of damage.

42 points with kustom shoota and pk, 48 with two killsaws.

There are 3 pair of killsaws in the meganobz kit, so you can all equip them with killsaws without relying on conversions or bitz sites. Their weapons can also be replaced without glueing them.

pismakron wrote:
Aren't they 50 points with twin saws and 42 in the cheapest configuration?

At any rate, I think neither option compares well with a Boss Nob with PK and 9 ablative wounds for 73 points. And those ablative wounds can also do a bit of damage.

Units with multiple PK can actually threaten vehicles and monsters, while nob+boyz don't. A Mortarion or DG Daemon prince with plate will probably just laugh at the mob while they fail to hurt them.
For a mob of 29 boyz with PK nob you could also get 4 KS nobz. In a tide that's a waste because they will simply draw all anti-tank to them, but it's definitely an option for transport or walker lists. The gargantuan squiggoth that keeps placing well might be interested in using them.

They synergize better with vehicles, planes and artillery since pure anti-infantry weapons are mostly wasted on them and even overcharged plasma that is shot at them is not killing weagons, trukks or walkers instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:
There are 3 pair of killsaws in the meganobz kit, so you can all equip them with killsaws without relying on conversions or bitz sites. Their weapons can also be replaced without glueing them.

Thanks! Gotta love ork kits.

 Blackie wrote:

pismakron wrote:
Aren't they 50 points with twin saws and 42 in the cheapest configuration?

At any rate, I think neither option compares well with a Boss Nob with PK and 9 ablative wounds for 73 points. And those ablative wounds can also do a bit of damage.

42 points with kustom shoota and pk, 48 with two killsaws.

How do you get 48? Isn't it 25 for the meganob and 25 for twin saws?

Another question, this time regarding the gargantuan squiggoth.

Supa-Lobba or Kilkannon?

Supa-Lobba has a longer range, 3D6 shots, S7 AP-2 D1
Kilkannon has 6 Shots, S7 AP-2 D2

Seems like a toss up to me...guaranteed 6 shots and 2 damage vs statistically more shots and greater range.Thoughts?

 godswildcard wrote:
Another question, this time regarding the gargantuan squiggoth.

Supa-Lobba or Kilkannon?

Supa-Lobba has a longer range, 3D6 shots, S7 AP-2 D1
Kilkannon has 6 Shots, S7 AP-2 D2

Seems like a toss up to me...guaranteed 6 shots and 2 damage vs statistically more shots and greater range.Thoughts?

Forge world killkannon was faqed to d6 like the index. Take the supa lobba

KFF can pretty easily cover 3 mobs of 30 Boyz, with support chars in the middle. It's very points efficient, and frustrating for opponents trying to thin the horde.

xmbk wrote:
KFF can pretty easily cover 3 mobs of 30 Boyz, with support chars in the middle. It's very points efficient, and frustrating for opponents trying to thin the horde.

Doesn't sound easy to me. Cramming 90 models within a 9" bubble. But haven't tried it so maybe I underestimate it.

Gitdakka wrote:

xmbk wrote:
KFF can pretty easily cover 3 mobs of 30 Boyz, with support chars in the middle. It's very points efficient, and frustrating for opponents trying to thin the horde.

Doesn't sound easy to me. Cramming 90 models within a 9" bubble.

agreed, that's less space than you think, it's quite difficult to get not only boys but other stuff in there as well.

question, if half a squad is covered by a KFF and the other half of the squad is covered by a different KFF, would that grant them the save?

Nuck Fewton wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

xmbk wrote:
KFF can pretty easily cover 3 mobs of 30 Boyz, with support chars in the middle. It's very points efficient, and frustrating for opponents trying to thin the horde.

Doesn't sound easy to me. Cramming 90 models within a 9" bubble.

agreed, that's less space than you think, it's quite difficult to get not only boys but other stuff in there as well.

question, if half a squad is covered by a KFF and the other half of the squad is covered by a different KFF, would that grant them the save?

Good question. I think not because of the wording:
- if this model has kff, units entirely within 9" gain benefit
Instead of how it could have been worded:
-Units entirely within 9" of any kff gain benefit...

pismakron wrote:

How do you get 48? Isn't it 25 for the meganob and 25 for twin saws?

Killsaw's price is now 15 for the single weapon, 23 for the twin version.

I've done 3 Mobs of boyz under the KFF with room to spare. The only thing is that you give up a lot of board control and the durability boost isn't that impressive, even if you put a painboy in as well. I rely now on Kommandos and hide my Boyz behind LOS cover and Da Jump them to their targets.

Nuck Fewton wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

xmbk wrote:
KFF can pretty easily cover 3 mobs of 30 Boyz, with support chars in the middle. It's very points efficient, and frustrating for opponents trying to thin the horde.

Doesn't sound easy to me. Cramming 90 models within a 9" bubble.

agreed, that's less space than you think, it's quite difficult to get not only boys but other stuff in there as well.

My first thought - I don't think he knows how KFF works.

 Jidmah wrote:

For a mob of 29 boyz with PK nob you could also get 4 KS nobz. In a tide that's a waste because they will simply draw all anti-tank to them, but it's definitely an option for transport or walker lists. The gargantuan squiggoth that keeps placing well might be interested in using them.

GSquig can't carry MA, unfortunately and annoyingly. Ghaz would look great on one.

Gitdakka wrote:

xmbk wrote:
KFF can pretty easily cover 3 mobs of 30 Boyz, with support chars in the middle. It's very points efficient, and frustrating for opponents trying to thin the horde.

Doesn't sound easy to me. Cramming 90 models within a 9" bubble. But haven't tried it so maybe I underestimate it.

A 9" radius bubble (slightly larger because of the base of the Mek, and only needing part of your base in the bubble to be within 9") covers ~255 Sq in. So fitting 90 orks with essentially 1 sq in base within a 255 sq in space is not that hard to do. All that happens is that you essentially give up a lot of board presence and mobility to do so.

Exactly. And if you factor on a Big Mek KFF, a painboy and a warboss and a Weirdboy you are looking at a pretty hefty points investment that is taking up an extremely small section of the board.