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Is there anything on being disallowed to check if your model is 3" to the objective as soon as you move it there?

Maybe I took an opponent's comment as being straight when it was intended as sarcasm.

I would think that counts as premeasuring because it is only at the end of the game that you check to see if the objective is contested/controlled.

That said, I typically play with 6 inch disks as objectives, but to control it you must be on the disk, not within 3 inches of it. It solves the problem of measuring later and is pretty simple to see where you need to be to win.

-cgmckenzie

You only ever measure to see if your within objective range at the end of the game. It says no where you can check if you are in range during the game.

Related, can you check objective range during deployment? I assume yes.

There is no rule that would allow you to do so, so no.

juraigamer wrote:Related, can you check objective range during deployment? I assume yes.

As others have said here. Nope.

However, you can measure the unit in questions move in the movement phase, and then change your mind and not move them at all, so you can tell how far you are from an objective at that point.

Using one measurement to know if your in range for another is pretty poor sportsmanship, wouldn't you say?

On a side note, the unit would have counted as moving (declare action, then measure, just like moving into difficult terrain after rolling the dice).

No, that's not what the movement rules say. You're allowed to premeasure movement in this edition.

As above: you are perfectly entitled to measuire your move, and if you glean other informaiton incidental to that movement, that is fine.

You can't stop people doing it in their heads from experience, ergo you're not going to stop your opponent trying to be sneaky by measuring movement distance. Shooting is another matter, however.

GW should just drop all the pre-measurement allowed/disallowed nonsense and allow people to measure what they like, when they like.

It's the default for most other games, which is part of why it causes trouble in 40K.

Depending on the success of pre-measuring in WFB, I think it is safe to say that an allowance of pre-measuring in 40k isn't a terribly far-off idea.

I can't say pre-measuring has made a big difference in fantasy. With random charges, the effect of pre measuring is greatly reduced. For shooting, who couldn't eyeball 23-24" inches? Pre measuring is relevant only when dealing with really short distances, like assault.

Kilkrazy wrote:GW should just drop all the pre-measurement allowed/disallowed nonsense and allow people to measure what they like, when they like.

It's the default for most other games, which is part of why it causes trouble in 40K.

I actually agree with that. Whenever I teach people how to play, I swear every single one of them picks up the tape measure and premeasures things. Then I have to explain that you cant blah blah blah. I dont really see where the harm is in knowing if your within range or not.

Knowing whether you're in range is a skill, like it or not. Being able to eyeball your unit's positioning to ensure that you're in range to assault unit X while being out of 12" double-tap range from unit Y, for example. Or position your Fast Skimmer so that a 24" move will get you within 3" of an objective without being any closer to enemy guns then you have to, etc.

You can have a perfectly good wargame allowing premeasuring of everything (Battlefleet Gothic, for one example), but not allowing premeasuring of certain things, like your weapon ranges, is traditional.

You know.... most peoples index finger is roughly 2.5 -3 inches long.... a quick glance as you move your hand away should be enough to tell you and not count as "premeasuring" ... as long as you are not being obvious about it.

I have pulled out my tape measure and looked at it off the table to double check exactly how big 6, 12, 3 inches is. It provides a frame of reference for eyeballing it, but it isn't actually measuring the distance.

Mind you, I have been extremely wrong most times I do that, so take it with a grain of salt.

-cgmckenzie

helgrenze wrote:You know.... most peoples index finger is roughly 2.5 -3 inches long.... a quick glance as you move your hand away should be enough to tell you and not count as "premeasuring" ... as long as you are not being obvious about it.

Measuring the distance with any object whose length you know is premeasuring.

Nungunz wrote:

juraigamer wrote:Related, can you check objective range during deployment? I assume yes.

As others have said here. Nope.

Damn, my hatred for a certain player grows.

So only check objective range at the end of the game, I shall remember this.

Bear in mind that because of the allowance of premeasuring movement in 5th, even to being allowed to measure distance from your unit then decide NOT to move them (p11), you can generally find out exactly how close you are to a given objective as long as you're within 6" of it with a non-vehicle unit or 12/18/24 (depending) with vehicles.

Mannahnin wrote:

helgrenze wrote:You know.... most peoples index finger is roughly 2.5 -3 inches long.... a quick glance as you move your hand away should be enough to tell you and not count as "premeasuring" ... as long as you are not being obvious about it.

Measuring the distance with any object whose length you know is premeasuring.

Whose Exact length is known...... And would only count if you held your finger over the gap in question. If it is noticed as you draw your hand away, then it would be both incidental and likely inaccurate.

This guy's comment came as a surprise to me, as he's not a weekly regular, but attends the tourneys. However, pretty much all of the LGS regulars do it, very casual and obvious, nothing under handed about it. It's an accepted part of the game. And I struggle in my recollection through 4th edition to remember if this was disallowed (yeah, I still have my 4e RB).

I know that one semi-regular guy (played since 2e) barked at me about Pre-Measuring Movement, until I showed him that that had changed in 5e, as Mannahnin cited.

I'll bring it up with the guys and our TO.

It does bother to hammer out these last few details, really streamlining 5e, only to hear rumors of 6th edition being around the corner.

Pre measuring actually makes sense with the technology level of 40k. Space marine helmets would be almost guaranteed to have range finders in them along with many other races and technologies, so truth be told, being able to premeasure actually makes the game more pertinent to the futuristic aspect of it.

DODcrazy wrote:Pre measuring actually makes sense with the technology level of 40k. Space marine helmets would be almost guaranteed to have range finders in them along with many other races and technologies, so truth be told, being able to premeasure actually makes the game more pertinent to the futuristic aspect of it.

Yes and no. Many units/armies (like Orks, Tyranids, less tech-savvy IG regiments, etc) wouldn't necessarily have regular access to rangefinders. Electronic Countermeasures could also possibly exist which mess with such equipment as well. You can easily fluff it one way or the other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

helgrenze wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:

helgrenze wrote:You know.... most peoples index finger is roughly 2.5 -3 inches long.... a quick glance as you move your hand away should be enough to tell you and not count as "premeasuring" ... as long as you are not being obvious about it.

Measuring the distance with any object whose length you know is premeasuring.

Whose Exact length is known...... And would only count if you held your finger over the gap in question. If it is noticed as you draw your hand away, then it would be both incidental and likely inaccurate.

If you gain data it's measuring, and thus it's premeasuring. If you don't gain information than the suggestion was pointless. "If you're not being obvious about it" has an unpleasant implication of dishonesty/trying to get away with something underhanded.

I'm pointing out that not measuring things you're not allowed to premeasure doesn't mean JUST not using a measuring tape. If you use any sort of tool (even your hand), you're breaking the same prohibition.

So by that definition, if the table is made from 2'x2' foam boards and something is placed where 2 pieces meet, if you know that the board edge is 24" before hand and thus anything on either board with a range of 24" is in probably range, it isn't "incedental" but a case of "premeasuring" and thus breaking the premeasure prohibition?

Using a known distance, like 2' by 2' board sections or 1' square terrain tiles is using a visual guide to estimate distances by eye.
This is diffferent than using a ruler or tape or body part to gain knowledge of a distance.

helgrenze wrote:So by that definition, if the table is made from 2'x2' foam boards and something is placed where 2 pieces meet, if you know that the board edge is 24" before hand and thus anything on either board with a range of 24" is in probably range, it isn't "incedental" but a case of "premeasuring" and thus breaking the premeasure prohibition?

I'm not a fan of table surfaces which have visible distance measurments built in either. But at least that information is available to both players at all times. One player taking a spot measurement at a given point in the game to help him make a tactical decision is different. Whether you use a ruler or any other tool.

I am not talking about taking your finger and holding it above the model to measure, but rather noticing, as you lift you hand away, that it appears to be roughly a finger's length away.

Or roughly estimating that the model is a 3" tree's length away from ... whatever, as seen from an angle you can view but your opponant does not have.

If you hand is close enough to serve as even a partial measurement and help you, that's premeasuring.