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As it says; do you think Eldrad Ulthran should be included as a playable character in the next Eldar Codex?

Why do I ask? Well, he's dead. As far as I can think of, he's the only dead character included in any of the Codices, which can make his inclusion questionable. However, he is arguably the most well known, fleshed out and possibly the most iconic character of the Eldar race. I expect that if you were to ask to think of an Eldar character you'd first think of Eldrad.
Furthermore, he's currently included in the current Eldar Codex (despite being dead) and is featured in many Eldar armies - and we know how frustrating it can be for a model (or army) to be rendered unplayable. Alternatively, he can then just be used to represent your everyday Farseer...

It does hint in the Eldar Codex that his soul may still be alive (and battling Chaos) - however the odds are slim - and that some of his waystones are still active. But the Codex does seem to purposefully leave some ambiguity about whether he could somehow return. I guess, he could potentially come back as a Wraithseer which would be pretty cool and a good bit of story progression.

So yes, Dakkanauts do you think Eldrad Ulthran should be included in the next Eldar Codex?


Please avoid turning this into a wishlisting thread regarding said Eldar Codex or a chance to discuss his current rules and how annoying he may or may not be to face in-game. Cheers.

To draw comparisons to WFB, many long dead special characters appear there, with the justification that the force will date to a period where the character was alive, so it could work for Eldrad. However considering how long the Eldar have been part of the 40K universe, they have some of the most bland and under developed special characters going. If anything I would like to see Eldrad replaced by a protege of some sort, to further the story.

Why shouldn't he be?

For awhile, they included Gaunt even though he'd been dead for a few centuries.

But really. He's stuck inside a Blackstone Fortress that is seemingly possessed by Slaanesh. He's dead-dead. Not comin' back as a Wraithseer I don't think.

Generally, I do not play special characters. They have a bad taste for me and are generally too expensive (point-wise). So my answer is no, not this sucker.

Just Dave wrote:As it says; do you think Eldrad Ulthran should be included as a playable character in the next Eldar Codex?

Why do I ask? Well, he's dead. As far as I can think of, he's the only dead character included in any of the Codices,

I can't believe that you've never heard of Blood Angels.

Yes.
They should have more dead characters in general actually.

Kanluwen wrote:Why shouldn't he be? ... But really. He's stuck inside a Blackstone Fortress that is seemingly possessed by Slaanesh. He's dead-dead. Not comin' back as a Wraithseer I don't think.

Along with what I said; kinda answered your own question there.

Bookwrack wrote:

Just Dave wrote:As it says; do you think Eldrad Ulthran should be included as a playable character in the next Eldar Codex?

Why do I ask? Well, he's dead. As far as I can think of, he's the only dead character included in any of the Codices,

I can't believe that you've never heard of Blood Angels.

I've heard of Blood Angels but I wouldn't claim to be an expert on their background.

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why shouldn't he be? ... But really. He's stuck inside a Blackstone Fortress that is seemingly possessed by Slaanesh. He's dead-dead. Not comin' back as a Wraithseer I don't think.

Along with what I said; kinda answered your own question there.

And being 'dead-dead' doesn't preclude a character from being usable.

Simply put--our games of 40k can happen at any point or time. We're not limited to simply "99.M41" and after Eldrad died.
To remove a character because he's dead at the present time kind of defeats the purpose of them 'stopping the clock' which is to give us a relatively stable background where we have to use our imagination brush to fill in the rest of the blanks.

Kanluwen wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why shouldn't he be? ... But really. He's stuck inside a Blackstone Fortress that is seemingly possessed by Slaanesh. He's dead-dead. Not comin' back as a Wraithseer I don't think.

Along with what I said; kinda answered your own question there.

And being 'dead-dead' doesn't preclude a character from being usable.

Simply put--our games of 40k can happen at any point or time. We're not limited to simply "99.M41" and after Eldrad died.
To remove a character because he's dead at the present time kind of defeats the purpose of them 'stopping the clock' which is to give us a relatively stable background where we have to use our imagination brush to fill in the rest of the blanks.

This is more or less my view...

I don't like historical Special Characters in the codices. I prefer that they be saved for special scenarios and White Dwarf articles. That said, I do think that Eldrad should be brought back, in some form, to the main Eldar Codex. Whether as his physical self or a Wraithseer doesn't mean that much too me. If they did write some story about him being saved, it could be a good jumping on point for a new special character as well, whoever was hardcore enough to penetrate a Blackstone Fortress and rescue him (I don't know much about BSFs, so if that's totally impossible to do then it may not be an option).

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why shouldn't he be? ... But really. He's stuck inside a Blackstone Fortress that is seemingly possessed by Slaanesh. He's dead-dead. Not comin' back as a Wraithseer I don't think.

Along with what I said; kinda answered your own question there.

Bookwrack wrote:

Just Dave wrote:As it says; do you think Eldrad Ulthran should be included as a playable character in the next Eldar Codex?

Why do I ask? Well, he's dead. As far as I can think of, he's the only dead character included in any of the Codices,

I can't believe that you've never heard of Blood Angels.

I've heard of Blood Angels but I wouldn't claim to be an expert on their background.

Then you probably shouldn't try and make claims about what's in other codicies if you've never bothered to read them. IIRC Tyco's unit entry references his death on Armageddon.

Portugal Jones wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why shouldn't he be? ... But really. He's stuck inside a Blackstone Fortress that is seemingly possessed by Slaanesh. He's dead-dead. Not comin' back as a Wraithseer I don't think.

Along with what I said; kinda answered your own question there.

Bookwrack wrote:

Just Dave wrote:As it says; do you think Eldrad Ulthran should be included as a playable character in the next Eldar Codex?

Why do I ask? Well, he's dead. As far as I can think of, he's the only dead character included in any of the Codices,

I can't believe that you've never heard of Blood Angels.

I've heard of Blood Angels but I wouldn't claim to be an expert on their background.

Then you probably shouldn't try and make claims about what's in other codicies if you've never bothered to read them. IIRC Tyco's unit entry references his death on Armageddon.

I said in the opening post "as far as I know", now I know better. It's not that I haven't bothered to read them, it's that I don't want to shell out money for a Codex I have no need for. I didn't outright state that there are no other dead characters, I said as far as I know. Similarly, I just said that I'm not an expert. I never stated for a fact that there are no other dead characters.

Kanluwen wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why shouldn't he be? ... But really. He's stuck inside a Blackstone Fortress that is seemingly possessed by Slaanesh. He's dead-dead. Not comin' back as a Wraithseer I don't think.

Along with what I said; kinda answered your own question there.

And being 'dead-dead' doesn't preclude a character from being usable.

Simply put--our games of 40k can happen at any point or time. We're not limited to simply "99.M41" and after Eldrad died.

It would be funny if I could nix my opponent's using special characters by saying, 'Sorry, this battle is in M35. Tellion is still just a normal scout, you can't use his special abilities.' Or 'it's early m37, and Knight Commander Pask's grandpappy is still in nappies.' Or even, "Sorry, it's M34, the tau haven't even reached space yet, so your whole army doesn't exist.'

I so want to be able to do that...
"Sorry your Tau cannot assault my Space Wolves because Logan Grimnar is currently fighting the 1st War for Armageddon and Tau have no way of reaching Armageddon"

Just Dave wrote:

Portugal Jones wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why shouldn't he be? ... But really. He's stuck inside a Blackstone Fortress that is seemingly possessed by Slaanesh. He's dead-dead. Not comin' back as a Wraithseer I don't think.

Along with what I said; kinda answered your own question there.

Bookwrack wrote:

Just Dave wrote:As it says; do you think Eldrad Ulthran should be included as a playable character in the next Eldar Codex?

Why do I ask? Well, he's dead. As far as I can think of, he's the only dead character included in any of the Codices,

I can't believe that you've never heard of Blood Angels.

I've heard of Blood Angels but I wouldn't claim to be an expert on their background.

Then you probably shouldn't try and make claims about what's in other codicies if you've never bothered to read them. IIRC Tyco's unit entry references his death on Armageddon.

I said in the opening post "as far as I know", now I know better. It's not that I haven't bothered to read them, it's that I don't want to shell out money for a Codex I have no need for. I didn't outright state that there are no other dead characters, I said as far as I know. Similarly, I just said that I'm not an expert. I never stated for a fact that there are no other dead characters.

You don't have to be an expert, but your posts are showing an unfamiliarity with 40K in general. Perhaps you should've spent a little more time actually learning about the game, because that would've answered your original question before you even began. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com would probably be a big help in bringing yourself up to speed. The game is not confined to just a single year, so excluding a character because they're 'dead' is pretty nonsensical.

I disagree with your statement bookwrack.
Dave wrote a very well made CSM fandex.
That in itself shows a higher than usual understanding of 40k.
The background doesn't advance in time which is what everyone was saying.
You can play all the previous 10,000 years so having characters from those times makes some sense.
Lord Solar Macharius used to have a model and some stats on the GW website...

Bookwrack wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why shouldn't he be? ... But really. He's stuck inside a Blackstone Fortress that is seemingly possessed by Slaanesh. He's dead-dead. Not comin' back as a Wraithseer I don't think.

Along with what I said; kinda answered your own question there.

And being 'dead-dead' doesn't preclude a character from being usable.

Simply put--our games of 40k can happen at any point or time. We're not limited to simply "99.M41" and after Eldrad died.

It would be funny if I could nix my opponent's using special characters by saying, 'Sorry, this battle is in M35. Tellion is still just a normal scout, you can't use his special abilities.' Or 'it's early m37, and Knight Commander Pask's grandpappy is still in nappies.' Or even, "Sorry, it's M34, the tau haven't even reached space yet, so your whole army doesn't exist.'

Of course they could always play the "Sorry, it's in reality M43 and the Tau railguns have over 125" and pulse rifles now fire an ordnance blast. Your transport got stuck in a warp time/space dilation field and ended up waaaaaaaaaaaay in the future!" card.

Asking a logical question that makes perfect sense is not an indicator of one's knowledge of 40k. Like purpleflood has already said, Dave's CSM codex is fantastic, a much better job than GW has done with many of the true versions, it's the codex I use in friendly games with my CSM force.

I want that to happen even more now...

Bookwrack wrote:You don't have to be an expert, but your posts are showing an unfamiliarity with 40K in general. Perhaps you should've spent a little more time actually learning about the game, because that would've answered your original question before you even began. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com would probably be a big help in bringing yourself up to speed.

lolwut?
Where did that come from?
Dave did a fine job of saying that there werent any others as far as he knew (and tbh even though i have a very good grasp of background fluff and own the BA Dex, i forgot about Tycho) and saying that he wasnt an expert.
Get off your high horse.

The game is not confined to just a single year, so excluding a character because they're 'dead' is pretty nonsensical.

But the point is that the storyline progresses (not very much in some cases, but it is progressing), so a character who died in the current (read: present) wouldnt be alive when the next Dex comes out. That is in fact the whole premise of the thread.

He should definitely be brought back but in a way that advanced the story and actually makes sense. GW really needs to evolve the plot every so often or things start getting stagnant.

The problem is that GW painted themselves into a corner after failbaddons 13th crusade when they had Eldrad die. Remember that YOUR actions decided the fate of the 40k universe....yeah yeah, yeah.

They sort of acknowledged the results but realised that they couldn't really let one of their staple characters die and run the risk of no more Eldrad minis being used or brought.

Some shoddy, throw away, scribbling later and Eldrad is dead but can be used in your games of 40K.

GW should keep him playable and ignore their previous ramblings.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MandalorynOranj wrote:He should definitely be brought back but in a way that advanced the story and actually makes sense. GW really needs to evolve the plot every so often or things start getting stagnant.

Like the 40k universe as a whole being stagnant?

No, because I've heard from a reliable source that he's a bit of a dick.

Bookwrack wrote:You don't have to be an expert, but your posts are showing an unfamiliarity with 40K in general. Perhaps you should've spent a little more time actually learning about the game, because that would've answered your original question before you even began. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com would probably be a big help in bringing yourself up to speed. The game is not confined to just a single year, so excluding a character because they're 'dead' is pretty nonsensical.

Wait, are you serious? My posts show an unfamiliarity with 40K in general? By posts do you mean the ones in this thread or overall? Because as far as I can tell, the only unfamiliarity with 40K I've shown here is with Tycho, with frankly is only one guy. I would argue my 40K knowledge to be pretty damn comprehensive.

The original question was asking opinions, not fact. So the original question could not have been answered. It appears that the fact is only one other guy is a playable character, yet dead. The inclusion of a dead character would seem to break the general trend with 40K rulebooks, hence the question. Similarly, I've seen others criticise Eldrad's inclusion before because he is just that, dead.
The game is not confined to a single year, but the game does state that Eldrad is dead, therefore making his inclusion questionable and sparking the original question as I'm pondering doing an Eldar fandex.

I don't know if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying or am simply of an edgy disposition right now, or if you (and portugal) really are being that patronising and presumptuous...

Edit: Thanks for the 'support' chaps.

Isn't Tycho dead also? The hero from the latest marine dex? Yet he is still playable.

I have no problem with using characters which are dead according the the current ficticious year in 40k.

I mean, whats so hard about assuming that he is alive at that point because he didnt step onto the blackstone fortress yet? Or that he, at some point, stepped into the warp and travelled to the future to fight a certain battle as he knew he would be dead long before that event occured? It's all fantasy dudes! the only limits are within your miiiinds! >

Just Dave wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:You don't have to be an expert, but your posts are showing an unfamiliarity with 40K in general. Perhaps you should've spent a little more time actually learning about the game, because that would've answered your original question before you even began. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com would probably be a big help in bringing yourself up to speed. The game is not confined to just a single year, so excluding a character because they're 'dead' is pretty nonsensical.

Wait, are you serious? My posts show an unfamiliarity with 40K in general? By posts do you mean the ones in this thread or overall? Because as far as I can tell, the only unfamiliarity with 40K I've shown here is with Tycho, with frankly is only one guy. I would argue my 40K knowledge to be pretty damn comprehensive.

All I know about you is what I read in this thread, and since you made it sound like you weren't interested in checking out any other codices to confirm, it seemed like you had a very limited knowledge of 40k. Apparently you wrote your own chaos rules. Good for you, but since, unlike say, a codex, that's not publicly available knowledge, it's understandable I was unaware that you're Dakka-famous.

Personally, I feel Eldrad is too much of an iconic Eldar character to have him removed completely. I honestly am hoping for a Wraithseer move, but I suppose only time will tell.

Bookwrack wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:You don't have to be an expert, but your posts are showing an unfamiliarity with 40K in general. Perhaps you should've spent a little more time actually learning about the game, because that would've answered your original question before you even began. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com would probably be a big help in bringing yourself up to speed. The game is not confined to just a single year, so excluding a character because they're 'dead' is pretty nonsensical.

Wait, are you serious? My posts show an unfamiliarity with 40K in general? By posts do you mean the ones in this thread or overall? Because as far as I can tell, the only unfamiliarity with 40K I've shown here is with Tycho, with frankly is only one guy. I would argue my 40K knowledge to be pretty damn comprehensive.

All I know about you is what I read in this thread, and since you made it sound like you weren't interested in checking out any other codices to confirm, it seemed like you had a very limited knowledge of 40k. Apparently you wrote your own chaos rules. Good for you, but since, unlike say, a codex, that's not publicly available knowledge, it's understandable I was unaware that you're Dakka-famous.

I checked all the codices I own and I have my own general knowledge of 40K and it's rules, but I simply didn't want to buy the BA Codex as Portugal suggested, for the purposes of finding out whether a single character is also dead. There's a difference between lack of interest and simply not needing/owning the BA Dex IMHO.
Arguably, my Codex is more publicly available knowledge than an actual codex, as mine is on the 'net and in some game stores it seems (as well as being in my signature along with other articles which you didn't notice it seems), whereas a real Codex is of limited availability to only those who purchase it.
I too was unaware that I'm Dakka-famous however.
I can understand your not knowing so (and my not knowing so) of the perceived Dakka fame, but I don't agree with your assumption regarding my own knowledge or how you commented on it.
Lets move on though, shall we?

Mr. Burning wrote:

MandalorynOranj wrote:He should definitely be brought back but in a way that advanced the story and actually makes sense. GW really needs to evolve the plot every so often or things start getting stagnant.

Like the 40k universe as a whole being stagnant?

Exactly, they need to take a page from Privateer Press and change the state of the galaxy every so often. Isn't it about time we see the Tyranid main force show up? Or the Tau start expanding more aggressively? Or some word on the Outsider? GW has to realize that if they don't update the fluff, people stop caring.

why wont he be included?
Tycho is dead too..