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So, with my GK army now in the works, I am planning out my paladin squads. I am running greywing with Dragio, so paladin troop choices. The only problem I have is choosing a shooting option for my 2 psycannon paladin squads. (I have a third 5 man paladin, but it has incinerators and daemon hammers for AT hunting and charge power). Swords seem like a good defensive bonus, but halberds seem like they would be better to take because I will hit first 90% of the time. Granted, its a 2 handed weapon, but still, thats a good buff. Whats dakka's thoughts on swords and halberds?

I like Falchions on Paladins. The +1A is much more useful with their higher WS, and their extra wounds usually ensure they survive long enough to make the most of them.

To answer your Q directly, I'd go with a mix. 1 x hammer, 2 x halberds and 2 x swords gives you the flexibility you need to tackle pretty much any given situation.

L. Wrex

All melee weapons are 1 handed for terminator armor units, so they still get to carry a gun, including heavy weapons if you choose.

In terms of swords vs halberds, it really depends on what you are doing with the unit. If they're accompanied by a librarian with quicksilver, you don't need halberds and will get a lot more out of the swords. On their own, halberds will perform better because you will hopefully kill most of the enemy unit before they get the chance to swing at you.

However, as with most multi-wound units, its worthwhile giving them plenty of unique gear, so that you can allocate wounds in your favor. When I run paladins I use the following set up:

master crafted psycannon/halberd
master crafted psycannon/sword
halberd
master crafted halberd
daemonhammer

Its served me well so far and I've only ever lost the entire unit once. Otherwise they seem to stomp through anything in front of them, up to and including land raiders and monstrous creatures.

My paladin army looks like:

Apothecary
Psycannon
Psycannon w/ Brotherhood banner
Ward staff (Whatever gives the 2+ in CQC)
Standard paladin

In my all paladin army, I have Dragio, a librarian, 2 units of paladins with the setup above, 1 unit of paladins with that setup but incinerators instead of psycannon and everyone has daemon hammers, and a landraider with various upgrades. Its a 2000pt army.

Remember, quicksliver is during your turn only. Halberds are active all the time, and power weapon attacks at high I are pretty brutal. I think you are better off killing your enemy before he can swing than taking 1/6th off his power weapon wounds.

So grog, I should give all my non-incinerator paladins should have halberds?

I say Halberds it even makes IC weary of charging in because of so many high I attacks that can either Cause ID or Hammerhand, very anti-spaceamrine, also takes away alot of abilities the DE like so much. Strike hard and fast, a dead enemy is a pretty enemy.

Happygrunt wrote:My paladin army looks like:

Apothecary
Psycannon
Psycannon w/ Brotherhood banner
Ward staff (Whatever gives the 2+ in CQC)
Standard paladin

In my all paladin army, I have Dragio, a librarian, 2 units of paladins with the setup above, 1 unit of paladins with that setup but incinerators instead of psycannon and everyone has daemon hammers, and a landraider with various upgrades. Its a 2000pt army.

hahaa I just got the joke.
Ward stave.
Very clever Mr. Ward, very clever.

Grey elder wrote:I say Halberds it even makes IC weary of charging in because of so many high I attacks that can either Cause ID or Hammerhand, very anti-spaceamrine, also takes away alot of abilities the DE like so much. Strike hard and fast, a dead enemy is a pretty enemy.

But wouldnt a 4+ invul in CC be more useful? (Just getting a better understanding)

I think that the swords are a better buy with a Librarian. Librarian+Paladins is a very powerful combination.


Shrouding helps to oversome the fact that paladins only have a 5++ save against shooting. You want that 3+ cover against stuff like Demolisher Cannons.
Sanctuary is a nice buff to have as it lets you charge on your turn more (with Quicksilver and Might). Also, dudes without grenades will strike last so your swords hit first anyways.
On your turn you can cast Might+Quicksilver+Hammerhand so you will be S6 and Int6 on the charge.

Hitting at Int 6 against most units will only take out a few Normal attacks. Paladins do not care about normal attacks (even without an apothecary). 2+ armor and 2 wounds and wound allocation means normal attacks are no big deal.

Paladins do HATE powerfists. The one PF sarge who survives can take out a lot of points of paladins. I would rather have the better save against the PF attacks than worry about taking out a few more normal marines.


My unit build would be thus
Librarian with a Shrouded, Quick, and Mighty Sanctuary and a warding Stave
5x Paladins
Sword+psycannon
Hammer+Psycannon
Sword
MC-sword
Stave

For swords vs halberds on paladins, I would go with a mix of all 3 (hammers too) for wound allocation without paying extra points for mastercrafted.

So in a 5 man squad:
Pcannon halberd/sword depending on meta
pcannon hammer
halberd/sword depending on meta
hammer
warding stave depending on points, or the 3rd weapon to save on points

As stated by other posters, that warding stave is great against a powerfist or claw hiding in a squad. While a 4++ invuln isnt terrible with the sword, its not much comfort once nullzone THSS termies roll in. In those cases you want to suck up the cost for falchions and no hammers.

As for init6, because Paladins are so tough versus even initiative power weapons with their wound allocation and 2 wounds, I dont see the point of striking first. Even versus hardy enemy IC's, with 5 s6 PW attacks and rerolls to hit, unless he is dealing instant death you are going to be fine.

Okay, so what I can understand is that maxing on weapons in the squads like all hammers or all halberds is a bad idea then.

allocating wounds makes the paladins last longer, i agree with taking the different builds on each paladin.

i generally take in a 10 man squad

2 halberds
2 halberds w/ heavy weapons
1 banner
2 hammers
3 swords

i was thinking about changing this up tho so that i make a heavy weapon on a sword making them different still so i can allocate like crazy. but yea dedicating to only one type of weapon will get the squad killed quicker. oh yea the orks do the same think with their Nobs.

SO in my 5 man units (The all hammer unit is in a transport, so I have no access to hammers.) but I should do 2 halberds and one sword per unit, as I have a BB and a ward stave in the 5 man.

If you happen to be fighting Eldar, don't count on Quicksilver. Even if you are fighting marines, there might be a lib to hood your Lib's casts as well. I prefer the Halberds.

Happygrunt, your paladin squads are incredibly expensive. If you are playing draigowing, that's fine, because they are the focus of your army. If not, then you are putting too many points into small units who can be just as, if not more effective at a lower cost.

First, that brotherhood banner is doing very little for you in a 5 man unit. Keep in mind that the bannerman loses his fw attacks, so you are effectively only gaining +2 attacks for the entire unit. I'm not willing to buy 2 pairs of falchions to do that, let alone a 25 point upgrade. Banners are for 10 man units that gain an extra 7 attacks out of it, which totally justifies its cost.

Second, as others have mentioned, you are weakening the paladins by making them mono weapon units. GK terminators and paladins are not the same as other space marines, and actually perform better with mixed weapons. Because we lack storm shields, our units can't afford to be striking last in combat against dangerous opponents.
If you are using all hammers as tank hunters, you should know that a hammer or 2, and master crafting will pretty much accomplish the same thing without the massive overkill of 5 hammers.

Pretty much everyone agrees that halberds are the best melee weapons you can equip them with, but you should mix in a hammer and sword or 2 as well. That way part of the unit hits first in combat, weakening the enemy, and then you have a couple of models with +4 invulnerable saves to tank the remaining hits.

I don't personally like warding staves, but I know a lot of players swear by them. It seems to me that the kind of unit that actually threatens paladins enough to warrant the stave should just be shot to death instead. If its the hidden powerfist in a squad you are afraid of, consider how much damage paladins can do from a turn of shooting and an assault. A 5 man unit with 2 psycannons and just swords/halberds can kill 9-10 marines or 15 guardsmen. Throw in an HQ character and you almost certainly wipe the enemy unit out.

The great thing about paladins, and GK in general, is that you can choose to shoot serious threats before assaulting them, or simply forgo the close combat altogether. No need for a warding stave when the things that warrant using it are all dead before they get to you.

Warding stave is a great addition to a lib, who is likely going to get picked out by your opponent if they manage to get into CC with you. Also, 2++ vs perils in CC

I should have said the majority of my guys have halberds, but I still have a couple swords and a couple hammers in my 10 man squad (for unique units as a whole and split into 2 combat squads).

for Paladins you want to play the wound allocation game.

you can do this by master crafting weapons to get more diversification without having completely different equipment.


I belive you need to have at least 1 Deamonhammer per Squad of GKs regardless of type. its just too useful to not take.


if you want mostly Swords(which is good with the 4++ and Quicksilver is better then halberds)


Sword and Stormbolter

Sword and Psycannon

Master Crafted Sword and Stormbolter

Sword and Master Crafted Stormbolter

Master Crafter Sword and Master Crafted Stormbolter

Deamonhammer and Stormbolter

Brotherhood banner and Stormbolter

Halberd and Psycannon

Halberd and Stormbolter

Master Crafted Halberd and Master Crafted Stormbolter


10 paladins and all diversified while keeping nice blocks of weapons. 5 swords, 3 Halberds, 1 hammer, and 1 dude that slaps people, but gives +1A for everyone.