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Hey, have recently started grey knights ans would like to know if this list would work well.

Brotherhood champion 100

Vindicare assassin 145

10 purifiers 3 psycannons, hammer,5 halberds in a rhino 332

9 strike squad psycannon, MC hammer in a rhino 245

10 strike squad 2 psycannons, MC hammer in a rhino 275

drednought 2 TW autocannons, psybolt ammunition 135

drednought 2 TW autocannons, psybolt ammunition 135

drednought 2 TW autocannons, psybolt ammunition 135

1500

please leave comments on how to improve this list.

Drop a few purifiers so you can make your second strike squad 10 guys and 2x psycannons

Bro Champ goes with the purifiers, they could use the re-roll to hit.


Otherwise it looks decent, if a bit low on troops.

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:Vindicare assassin 145

*Sigh*

svendrex wrote:Drop a few purifiers so you can make your second strike squad 10 guys and 2x psycannons

Bro Champ goes with the purifiers, they could use the re-roll to hit.


Otherwise it looks decent, if a bit low on troops.

i didn't want to do that because it gives the enemy a too easily decided decision, do i shoot the strike squad or the death star unit, it's just too easy a decision, however i do think i need more troop choices but im not sure what to drop.

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:
i didn't want to do that because it gives the enemy a too easily decided decision, do i shoot the strike squad or the death star unit, it's just too easy a decision, however i do think i need more troop choices but im not sure what to drop.

You could always combat squad the Strike squads in objective games so you have the 2 Psycannons and the Hammer in the Rhino to attack and then another 5 Knights to stay on an objective.

Or i personally would swap the Champion and either a Dreadnought or some purifiers for a Grandmaster so you can make some of the Dreads or purifiers capture objectives.

Oh and i would definatly swap the Hammers on the Stike squads for Psybolt ammo instead, its just a much better upgrade.

But if I take a grandmaster i will need to change the list a very considerable amount, for example I will need a unit of termies and a land raider to transport them.

rogersss wrote: Oh and i would definatly swap the Hammers on the Stike squads for Psybolt ammo instead, its just a much better upgrade.

O Rly?

Always keep a hammer hidden in the unit. Thats like a no brainer. Personally I say never put in the Justicar or Knight of the Flame just to save yourself from possible perils destruction, but a hammers are a necessity in a TAC list.

Beyond that Vindicare is definitely a YMMV unit, I'm not the hugest fan but they are 145 points that could save another whole part of your army.

rogersss wrote:Oh and i would definatly swap the Hammers on the Stike squads for Psybolt ammo instead, its just a much better upgrade.

Disagree 100%. Psybolt Ammo IS a nice upgrade but only if you have the points after taking everything else. A Daemon Hammer is a 100% necessary upgrade, and it should be taken in every unit. Without it a single Dreadnought can hold the unit up in combat.

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:But if I take a grandmaster i will need to change the list a very considerable amount, for example I will need a unit of termies and a land raider to transport them.

No you won't. Terminators are pretty terrible, and it would really be better to just take Purifiers like you have now. A Grandmaster + Purifiers in a Land Raider is a solid unit, though it's quite expensive so you might not want to field it at 1,500 points.

seanzor wrote:Always keep a hammer hidden in the unit. Thats like a no brainer. Personally I say never put in the Justicar or Knight of the Flame just to save yourself from possible perils destruction, but a hammers are a necessity in a TAC list.

Also disagree. The Hammer is a waste of points on a model with only a single attack. I understand that using psychic powers puts you at risk of losing the Hammer if you put it on the Justicar, but it really is a low chance. 1 out of every 18 casts will be Perils, which means during a 6 turn game, each of your units could cast a psychic power on every turn and you would statistically lose a single Justicar. It's a risk I'm willing to take for an extra attack on my S10 Hammer.

To the OP, I think your list has potential, but I would definitely ditch the Brotherhood Champion for something else, and remove the Vindicare Assassin as well. I like your idea of a Land Raider + Grandmaster, but the Grandmaster might be a bit expensive for not enough return. A Librarian would probably suit the Purifiers a little better, and you really don't need more than 2 scoring units at 1,500 so Grand Strategy is not all that necessary. I might try something like this:

Librarian (Might of Titan, Shrouding, Sanctuary) - 165
9 Purifiers (2x Psycannon, 6x Halberd, MC Hammer) - 258
10 GKSS (2x Psycannon, MC Hammer, Rhino) - 275
10 GKSS (2x Psycannon, MC Hammer, Rhino) - 275
Land Raider Redeemer (Multi-Melta) - 255
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt) - 135
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt) - 135
Total 1,498

The Librarian casts Might and Hammerhand, the unit casts Hammerhand, and all of a sudden your Purifiers are Strength 7 and rolling 2D6 for armor penetration. You could also drop one Purifier, swap the Redeemer for a Godhammer (more ranged firepower), and use the extra points for a Warding Stave on the Librarian. You might need to remove the Master Crafting from the Hammers to get enough points though.

Anyway, hope that helps!

Aldarionn wrote: 1 out of every 18 casts will be Perils,

Eldar with Eldrad?

Shadow In The Warp?

Thanks for the advice all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Aldarionn

Im sorry i don't understand, what is a "godhammer"?

Aldarionn wrote:

rogersss wrote:Oh and i would definatly swap the Hammers on the Stike squads for Psybolt ammo instead, its just a much better upgrade.

Disagree 100%. Psybolt Ammo IS a nice upgrade but only if you have the points after taking everything else. A Daemon Hammer is a 100% necessary upgrade, and it should be taken in every unit. Without it a single Dreadnought can hold the unit up in combat.

Why is everyone here in love with Hammers there really not that great, yea a Dreadnought would hold up a squad without one but the Dread shouldn't even get close to you as your in Rhinos and will probably kill the Dread in no time with your own Dreads and all the Psycannons you have, and even with the Hammer you'll have to get pretty lucky to destroy it. Where as Psybolt ammo works everytime the squad shoots unlike the Hammer which won't even be used in most games.

Aldarionn wrote:[To the OP, I think your list has potential, but I would definitely ditch the Brotherhood Champion for something else, and remove the Vindicare Assassin as well. I like your idea of a Land Raider + Grandmaster, but the Grandmaster might be a bit expensive for not enough return. A Librarian would probably suit the Purifiers a little better, and you really don't need more than 2 scoring units at 1,500 so Grand Strategy is not all that necessary. I might try something like this:

Librarian (Might of Titan, Shrouding, Sanctuary) - 165
9 Purifiers (2x Psycannon, 6x Halberd, MC Hammer) - 258
10 GKSS (2x Psycannon, MC Hammer, Rhino) - 275
10 GKSS (2x Psycannon, MC Hammer, Rhino) - 275
Land Raider Redeemer (Multi-Melta) - 255
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt) - 135
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt) - 135
Total 1,498

The Librarian casts Might and Hammerhand, the unit casts Hammerhand, and all of a sudden your Purifiers are Strength 7 and rolling 2D6 for armor penetration. You could also drop one Purifier, swap the Redeemer for a Godhammer (more ranged firepower), and use the extra points for a Warding Stave on the Librarian. You might need to remove the Master Crafting from the Hammers to get enough points though.

Anyway, hope that helps!

Why get rid of the Vindicare? He's the only reliable way to kill AV14 at range in the list and will earn his points back in nearly every game he's in.

Also if you're thinking about having a Librarian in the list i would take a Stormraven for the purifiers instead of a Landraider to make use of the Shrouding to get a 3+ save when Turbo boosting and the SR is also cheaper aswell. I also prefer to have another power instead of Sactuary either Rift or Quicksilver although thats personal preferance.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:Im sorry i don't understand, what is a "godhammer"?

Godhammer is the Landraider with the Lascannons on it.

No, roger, just no.....

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Aldarionn wrote: 1 out of every 18 casts will be Perils,

Eldar with Eldrad?

Shadow In The Warp?

If you are facing Eldar and they have Runes of Warding on the field, you should not be casting powers period until the Farseer is dead. Average on 3D6 is 10.5, which means you statistically will fail every Psychic Test you make, and the 1/18 chance for Perils goes to 97/216 or almost 45%! Even if the Hammer is not on the Justicar, you lose a model every other Psychic Test, and after he dies it's random, so continued casting of Psychic Powers could see the hammer dead and your squads so horribly diminished that you lose based on attrition. The same goes for Shadow in the Warp.

If you are facing Shadow in the Warp, or Runes of Warding, NEVER under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES cast ANY Psychic powers until you have removed the threat. Pour everything you have into the Farseer/Hive Tyrant/whatever in order to take it out before focusing on anything else, or just ignore it and fight without Psychic Powers. Either way, the Hammer is still better on the Justicar than it is on anything else.

I see your point Aldarionn. My brain is far too fried from playing Purifiers lately. Everyone has 2 attacks so its kind of a different perspective

Aldarionn wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Aldarionn wrote: 1 out of every 18 casts will be Perils,

Eldar with Eldrad?

Shadow In The Warp?

If you are facing Eldar and they have Runes of Warding on the field, you should not be casting powers period until the Farseer is dead. Average on 3D6 is 10.5, which means you statistically will fail every Psychic Test you make, and the 1/18 chance for Perils goes to 97/216 or almost 45%! Even if the Hammer is not on the Justicar, you lose a model every other Psychic Test, and after he dies it's random, so continued casting of Psychic Powers could see the hammer dead and your squads so horribly diminished that you lose based on attrition. The same goes for Shadow in the Warp.

If you are facing Shadow in the Warp, or Runes of Warding, NEVER under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES cast ANY Psychic powers until you have removed the threat. Pour everything you have into the Farseer/Hive Tyrant/whatever in order to take it out before focusing on anything else, or just ignore it and fight without Psychic Powers. Either way, the Hammer is still better on the Justicar than it is on anything else.

A Grey Knight without Psychic Powers is points not well spent.

You can't really focus all firepower on a Farseer, you are then making yourself vulnerable to the rest of the army. Which is very costly when it comes to GK's

Aldarionn wrote:
No you won't. Terminators are pretty terrible, and it would really be better to just take Purifiers like you have now. A Grandmaster + Purifiers in a Land Raider is a solid unit, though it's quite expensive so you might not want to field it at 1,500 points.

You're not the first one to say that Terminators are terrible, and I still do not understand why people feel that way. The all terminator army I've been running has been doing pretty good. On the move, I get the same number of psycannon shots as Purifiers. Terminators are more expensive, 45 points more expensive, but on the other hand, they're always going to be able to fire, unlike the Rhino, and can always fire the 4 other storm bolters with them, which is something that the Rhino can't do.

rogersss wrote:
Why is everyone here in love with Hammers there really not that great, yea a Dreadnought would hold up a squad without one but the Dread shouldn't even get close to you as your in Rhinos and will probably kill the Dread in no time with your own Dreads and all the Psycannons you have, and even with the Hammer you'll have to get pretty lucky to destroy it. Where as Psybolt ammo works everytime the squad shoots unlike the Hammer which won't even be used in most games.

That's the thing really, GK are on the opposite end of the spectrum from armies like IG. They have so little stuff, they can't afford to specialize. They need to be good at EVERYTHING, and actually have the options to do so. Also, I don't think 'always shooting' as a battleplan is viable, for example, I don't believe it would be unreasonable as a SM player to have 3 Dreads and 4 Rhinos at any given time at 1500, if you decide to go dread heavy. Assume the Dreads drop pod in. You now have one turn of dealing with them, and they've already fired their meltas/multimeltas/magmagrapplers/lascannons at your rhinos, cracking them open. Can you reliably put down that much stuff with those psycannons? Let's hope so. Also, S10 actually does pretty well against a Dread, so I don't think you need to get THAT lucky. Statistically, shot for shot, it's more likely to do something than a psycannon is. It's something that you hope to never have to use, but it's there if you need it. It's an insurance policy.

rogersss wrote:Why is everyone here in love with Hammers there really not that great, yea a Dreadnought would hold up a squad without one but the Dread shouldn't even get close to you as your in Rhinos and will probably kill the Dread in no time with your own Dreads and all the Psycannons you have, and even with the Hammer you'll have to get pretty lucky to destroy it. Where as Psybolt ammo works everytime the squad shoots unlike the Hammer which won't even be used in most games.

Because Daemon Hammers are the most reliable anti-tank and anti-MC weapons IN THE ARMY. With Hammerhand they become S10 and strike rear armor except against Dreadnoughts, and against Dreadnoughts they pen on a 3+ and auto-stun, as well as reduce them to Initiative 1 on the next round if you fail to destroy. Like it or not, Dreads get into combat, especially Furioso Dreads, who have WS 6 and AV13 on the front. They LOVE to assault units with no Power Fists or Hammers, and they eat them alive, especially if they get Furious Charge from a priest and strike at Initiative 5. Without that hammer, you stand to lose the entire unit. So yes. They ARE that great, and not taking them in every squad is a foolish mistake.

rogersss wrote:Why get rid of the Vindicare? He's the only reliable way to kill AV14 at range in the list and will earn his points back in nearly every game he's in.

There are so many things wrong with this that I don't know where to begin. First of all, Psycannons are reliable anti-tank, and 24" might not be "long" range, but it's still more flexible than a Meltagun. 4 shots from a Psycannon have about a 14.7% chance to glance AV14 and a 14.7% chance to penetrate AV14, meaning almost a 30% chance for a result. As for the Vindicare, he is a single 145 point T4 model with 2 wounds and a 3+ save in cover. A single Long Fang unit could take him out in one round of shooting, and they cost 5 points less. He has a high probability of penetrating AV14 if he gets to shoot, but otherwise he is a sitting duck to anything with a decent range and a high enough strength to kill him outright. He will be the FIRST thing your opponent shoots, which does NOTHING to earn his points back if you go second, and even should he get a shot on something big like a Land Raider, it can still get cover from smoke or other models. On top of that, if your opponent blocks his Line of Sight, you have to move him and he cannot fire if he moves. Assassins are a TERRIBLE purchase in this codex, except maybe at 3,000+ points where he becomes a much lower priority than the 2,855 points of Grey Knights bearing down on you.

rogersss wrote:Also if you're thinking about having a Librarian in the list i would take a Stormraven for the purifiers instead of a Landraider to make use of the Shrouding to get a 3+ save when Turbo boosting and the SR is also cheaper aswell. I also prefer to have another power instead of Sactuary either Rift or Quicksilver although thats personal preferance.

The Stormraven wouldn't be a bad idea if it was taken alongside a Land Raider to reduce its target priority, but that's too expensive for 1,500 points. The problem with the Stormraven is that it's too fragile for the points. It doesn't have high enough armor to survive against missile spam, and you can bet that your opponent will spam those missiles at it early in the game. Even with a 3+ cover save (and only assuming you go first) it's not guaranteed to survive, especially when Flat-Out movement means Immobilized results count as destroyed. If you don't go first, your opponent will pop it on turn 1 and leave your Purifiers stranded in your backfield. Granted, this can happen with a Land Raider as well, but the number of weapons capable of doing so are significantly less numerous, and most require a 6 to penetrate.

Aldarionn wrote:

rogersss wrote:Why is everyone here in love with Hammers there really not that great, yea a Dreadnought would hold up a squad without one but the Dread shouldn't even get close to you as your in Rhinos and will probably kill the Dread in no time with your own Dreads and all the Psycannons you have, and even with the Hammer you'll have to get pretty lucky to destroy it. Where as Psybolt ammo works everytime the squad shoots unlike the Hammer which won't even be used in most games.

Because Daemon Hammers are the most reliable anti-tank and anti-MC weapons IN THE ARMY. With Hammerhand they become S10 and strike rear armor except against Dreadnoughts, and against Dreadnoughts they pen on a 3+ and auto-stun, as well as reduce them to Initiative 1 on the next round if you fail to destroy. Like it or not, Dreads get into combat, especially Furioso Dreads, who have WS 6 and AV13 on the front. They LOVE to assault units with no Power Fists or Hammers, and they eat them alive, especially if they get Furious Charge from a priest and strike at Initiative 5. Without that hammer, you stand to lose the entire unit. So yes. They ARE that great, and not taking them in every squad is a foolish mistake.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
But the problem is is that with your 1 attack you might not even hit the Dread, and then eventually end up in your hammer dying and being a waste of points after all...

2/3 Attacks. It might be the purifier squad, and you either got the charge on them, ran away not getting into combat, or something went wrong with estimating distances.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
I do agree with Al on this one, Psycannons and the such are good light armour killers, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they are good AV13-14 Killers despite being rending, you need to be really Jammy to get a good roll with them, But TL Autocannons with Psybolt can kill nearly any enemy other than the AV14, but you can leave those heavies to the Hammers...

That's the general idea. I typically get just enough shots with the autocannons and psycannons to harass the Land Raider, keeping it from doing much firing. Unfortunately, the only reliable way to kill one is to get up to it and hammertime it into the stone age. Interceptors work well for this.

daedalus wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
But the problem is is that with your 1 attack you might not even hit the Dread, and then eventually end up in your hammer dying and being a waste of points after all...

2/3 Attacks. It might be the purifier squad, and you either got the charge on them, ran away not getting into combat, or something went wrong with estimating distances.

You can't assume that you will charge the dread, AV 11 Vehicles are pretty easy to kill, and if the dread kills it then he can also assault the contents...

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
A Grey Knight without Psychic Powers is points not well spent.

They HAVE Psychic Powers, they just shouldn't USE them until its safe. Runes of Warding cover the entire board, and casting under their effects is futile. 45% of the powers you cast will be Perils of the Warp, and you fail the test on average rolls, meaning there was absolutely no point to trying in the first place. I did not used to think that Runes of Warding were broken, but against Grey Knights that single piece of wargear shuts down their entire army. Granted, with Dreadnoughts in the army the Eldar aren't getting too many Dooms off either, and Psycannons insta-kill most Eldar characters.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:You can't really focus all firepower on a Farseer, you are then making yourself vulnerable to the rest of the army. Which is very costly when it comes to GK's

Well, it's either that or ignore the fact that you can't cast Psychic Powers without risking death for most of your units. Even your vehicles cannot cast, and most of your infantry will fail or die when trying. My basic strategy would be to suppress as many vehicles as possible as fast as possible, and once I ground the Fire Dragons, I would go after the Farseer and whatever unit he's attached to. If he's in a transport he is at worst attached to a unit of Warlocks, which you will slaughter in close combat. If he is attached to any other unit you will still likely slaughter them because you are striking with Power Weapons at a higher Toughness and potentially higher initiative. Come to think of it, most of your units won't NEED Hammerhand to do damage. A 2+ to wound is nice, but a 3+ isn't terrible, so not casting it doesn't hurt you THAT much.

daedalus wrote:
You're not the first one to say that Terminators are terrible, and I still do not understand why people feel that way. The all terminator army I've been running has been doing pretty good. On the move, I get the same number of psycannon shots as Purifiers. Terminators are more expensive, 45 points more expensive, but on the other hand, they're always going to be able to fire, unlike the Rhino, and can always fire the 4 other storm bolters with them, which is something that the Rhino can't do.

I say Terminators are terrible because it's the truth. Look at a 5 man Terminator squad next to a 10 man GKSS:

5 Terminators (Psycannon, 4 Halberds, Daemon Hammer) - 225
-4 Psycannon shots
-8 Storm Bolter shots
-8(12) Power Weapon attacks at Initiative 6
-2(3) Thunder Hammer attacks at Initiative 1

10 GKSS (2x Psycannon, Hammer) - 230
-4(8) Psycannon Shots
-16 Storm Bolter shots
-7(14) Power Weapon attacks at Initiative 4
-2(4) Melee attacks at Initiative 4
-2(3) Thunder Hammer attacks at Initiative 1

The Strike Squad is 5 points more and has more Storm Bolter shots, more attacks on the charge, and the ability to take a Rhino for mobility. It takes 90 Bolter shots to kill either unit, so durability against small arms fire is identical. The Terminators Invulnerable Save is worse than Cover, so they are only slightly more durable in the open against AP2 weapons than a Strike Squad in the open, and when both units are in cover, their durability against AP2 is the same. In combat, 10 models with a 3+ are actually MORE durable than 5 models with a 2+/5++. Both units can Deep Strike, both take up almost an identical footprint, and both have almost the same mobility on foot. The only advantages the Terminators have are the Initiative 6 Power Weapon attacks, and that they are more durable against AP3 weapons (which, other than Missile Launchers that have better targets, are few and far between).

There is NO reason to take Terminators over equal points worth of Strike Squads, even if you are just footslogging. The advantages do not outweigh the disadvantages, and the Strike Squad has a FAR greater threat range if taken in a Rhino. Move 12" + disembark 2" + shoot 24" = 38" threat in one turn, and they are just as durable as those 5 Terminators standing in cover.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:But the problem is is that with your 1 attack you might not even hit the Dread, and then eventually end up in your hammer dying and being a waste of points after all...

If the Hammer is on the Justicar it will be 2 attacks, meaning 1 will still likely hit. That's been my argument all along. The Hammer is a better buy if taken on the Justicar because he has 2 attacks, and the likelihood that he will die from Perils is so low it's worth the risk against anyone but Eldar.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:I do agree with Al on this one, Psycannons and the such are good light armour killers, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they are good AV13-14 Killers despite being rending, you need to be really Jammy to get a good roll with them, But TL Autocannons with Psybolt can kill nearly any enemy other than the AV14, but you can leave those heavies to the Hammers...

So you want to leave the AV14 to the Hammers, which you don't recommend taking on the Justicar for more attacks? Not sure I follow.....
If you compare a Psycannon to every other weapon in the game....literally EVERY WEAPON, it is better against all armor values than every single one except Mletaguns and Multi-Meltas, and they are only better when in Melta range. The only "good" AV13-14 weapons are Melta weapons, which Grey Knights get in very short supply, and since Psycannons are better than literally every other weapon in that role, I would say that makes them at least "decent" AV13-14 weapons. Enough rending shots will suppress even tough armored targets, and I've held off Blood Angels AV13 lists using nothing but Psycannons to keep them from shooting/moving long enough to catch them in combat or get my Psyfleman Dreads into position for side shots.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:You can't assume that you will charge the dread, AV 11 Vehicles are pretty easy to kill, and if the dread kills it then he can also assault the contents...

While this is somewhat true, you can usually prevent the Dread from charging you if he wrecks your vehicle. Even if he is standing right on top of it you can disembark 2" from the other side, and you now have a vehicle in the way forcing him to roll difficult terrain. Even if it explodes you can usually deploy more than 2" away from the Dread, and now you are in a crater which also forces him to make a difficult terrain test. In both cases, the Dread is now striking at Initiative 1 because he moved through terrain without grenades, and you at the very least get to pile some Krak grenades on him before he swings, and you still get to cast Hammerhand.

Hmm, perhaps it's just my local meta then, but I tend to get hit by a disproportionate amount of AP3. The 2+ saves help level the playing field. I might have to give a Strike Squad list a shot and see how it pans out, comparatively speaking.