Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.

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**H.B.M.C.**

Overread wrote:
Blame Chapterhouse situations

I do. Constantly. This single event has made GW worse, and we all suffer for it.

But I don't believe for a second that this model wasn't ready when the rest of them were made. Minis take quite a while to make, so the idea that they couldn't've included/released these at the same time doesn't strike me as true.

**NinthMusketeer**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Overread wrote:
Blame Chapterhouse situations
I do. Constantly. This single event has made GW worse, and we all suffer for it.

But I don't believe for a second that this model wasn't ready when the rest of them were made. Minis take quite a while to make, so the idea that they couldn't've included/released these at the same time doesn't strike me as true.

Agreed. GWs reaction to Chapterhouse has been and remains both absurd and detrimental for all parties involved.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DaveC wrote:
Blood Knights article

I may be reading too much into this, but that art has a very complete depiction of what are clearly Marauders. AoS has usually used bloodreavers to fill the role of light Chaos infantry in art up until this point, maybe an indicated that a new Marauder kit is on the horizon?

**H.B.M.C.**

Is that and old Blood Rider art piece, or a new one though?

**NinthMusketeer**

Definitely new; the knights have a number of very specific details illustrated that exactly match the new models.

**Sarouan**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Definitely new; the knights have a number of very specific details illustrated that exactly match the new models.

Not really, it's just recolored. Coming from Vampire Count WHFB army book V8 (french version) :

Not even sure it's not older than that actually.

**Sotahullu**

Well I am quite sure that this one is new (and kinda nice):

**tneva82**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Overread wrote:
Blame Chapterhouse situations
I do. Constantly. This single event has made GW worse, and we all suffer for it.

But I don't believe for a second that this model wasn't ready when the rest of them were made. Minis take quite a while to make, so the idea that they couldn't've included/released these at the same time doesn't strike me as true.

They could have.

How many players can afford to buy these as well as first releases? You would have releases competing each other in the critical months that sees sales kit will get.

Gw trickling releases rather than releasing all at once is time honoured tradition that started way before chapter house case.

**NinthMusketeer**

You have to admit it is at least a little bit lame to not put the rules in the battletome though.

**Gallahad**

I think it is silly to blame Chapterhouse for GW's anti fan behavior.

GW could instantly put bits sellers out of business of they doubled the size of in game units and started pricing HIPS plastic sprues like the low marginal cost product they are. Instead we live in a world where small operation resin garage shops can produce products that compete with GW HIPS plastic kits on price.

In my opinion it is pants on head silly. GW could CRUSH their competitors by flooding the market with low cost high quality miniatures for everything under the sun, but instead they've decided to go boutique with limited print runs and unit prices that have created an entire garage resin industry for recasting and alternative bits.

They are quite literally playing to the weakness of their chosen material.

GW could have easily put the profiles in the latest Slaanesh book, but instead they will keep treating fans like the plastic simps they think we are.

**H.B.M.C.**

It's not so much blaming Chapterhouse, rather GW's response to them and the subsequent court case.

**NinthMusketeer**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's not so much blaming Chapterhouse, rather GW's response to them and the subsequent court case.

Exactly.

**tneva82**

Gallahad wrote:
I think it is silly to blame Chapterhouse for GW's anti fan behavior.

GW could instantly put bits sellers out of business of they doubled the size of in game units and started pricing HIPS plastic sprues like the low marginal cost product they are. Instead we live in a world where small operation resin garage shops can produce products that compete with GW HIPS plastic kits on price.

In my opinion it is pants on head silly. GW could CRUSH their competitors by flooding the market with low cost high quality miniatures for everything under the sun, but instead they've decided to go boutique with limited print runs and unit prices that have created an entire garage resin industry for recasting and alternative bits.

They are quite literally playing to the weakness of their chosen material.

GW could have easily put the profiles in the latest Slaanesh book, but instead they will keep treating fans like the plastic simps they think we are.

Just one tiny little issue with your idea.

Gw can't keep up with demand as is.

If gw halves prices they need more than double sales or lose money. As they can't keep up wlth demand as is all that would happen is halving income.

Supply and demand. Demand is greater than supply, what happens? Whole western economical system is built on this concept

**Gallahad**

tneva82 wrote:
Gallahad wrote:
I think it is silly to blame Chapterhouse for GW's anti fan behavior.

GW could instantly put bits sellers out of business of they doubled the size of in game units and started pricing HIPS plastic sprues like the low marginal cost product they are. Instead we live in a world where small operation resin garage shops can produce products that compete with GW HIPS plastic kits on price.

In my opinion it is pants on head silly. GW could CRUSH their competitors by flooding the market with low cost high quality miniatures for everything under the sun, but instead they've decided to go boutique with limited print runs and unit prices that have created an entire garage resin industry for recasting and alternative bits.

They are quite literally playing to the weakness of their chosen material.

GW could have easily put the profiles in the latest Slaanesh book, but instead they will keep treating fans like the plastic simps they think we are.

Just one tiny little issue with your idea.

Gw can't keep up with demand as is.

If gw halves prices they need more than double sales or lose money. As they can't keep up wlth demand as is all that would happen is halving income.

Supply and demand. Demand is greater than supply, what happens? Whole western economical system is built on this concept

CNC milling machines are not some sort of dark voodoo tech. GW could easily expand their ability to produce more models.

They could even have outside shops run the molds if they didn't want to make the capital expenditure.

The more molds they run the cheaper each run gets as your fixed costs get spread out over more product. They wouldn't have to double sales if they halved prices.

Think about it this way, keep every box the exact same cost, but double the sprues inside. They make the exact same revenue per sale, but the decline in profits from having to stuff more sprues in the box isn't 50%. It would cost them another dollar or two per box to double the sprues.

**Wha-Mu-077**

tneva82 wrote:
Gallahad wrote:
I think it is silly to blame Chapterhouse for GW's anti fan behavior.

GW could instantly put bits sellers out of business of they doubled the size of in game units and started pricing HIPS plastic sprues like the low marginal cost product they are. Instead we live in a world where small operation resin garage shops can produce products that compete with GW HIPS plastic kits on price.

In my opinion it is pants on head silly. GW could CRUSH their competitors by flooding the market with low cost high quality miniatures for everything under the sun, but instead they've decided to go boutique with limited print runs and unit prices that have created an entire garage resin industry for recasting and alternative bits.

They are quite literally playing to the weakness of their chosen material.

GW could have easily put the profiles in the latest Slaanesh book, but instead they will keep treating fans like the plastic simps they think we are.

Just one tiny little issue with your idea.

Gw can't keep up with demand as is.

If gw halves prices they need more than double sales or lose money. As they can't keep up wlth demand as is all that would happen is halving income.

Supply and demand. Demand is greater than supply, what happens? Whole western economical system is built on this concept

But things like Wargames Atlantic can pretty easily sell stuff at half the GW's prize?

**kodos**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

But things like Wargames Atlantic can pretty easily sell stuff at half the GW's prize?

this is not the point

if GW sells 10.000 boxes for 250€ with a margin of 200€ they earn 2.000.000
if they sell 10.000 boxes for 125€ they earn 750.000 and to make the same profit they would need to sell 26.667 boxes

yet if the only can produce 10.000 there is no chance to make the same profit by selling at half the price

as long as GW sells all of their copies for a high price there is no need to cut the price unless you can make and sell 3 times as many for half the price

Wargames Atlantic on the other hand has different competition, they are going into the historical themed market were models are <1€, if you make WW1 Germans for the price of GW models you won't sell anything

**Overread**

Gallahad wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

CNC milling machines are not some sort of dark voodoo tech. GW could easily expand their ability to produce more models.

They could even have outside shops run the molds if they didn't want to make the capital expenditure.

The more molds they run the cheaper each run gets as your fixed costs get spread out over more product. They wouldn't have to double sales if they halved prices.

Think about it this way, keep every box the exact same cost, but double the sprues inside. They make the exact same revenue per sale, but the decline in profits from having to stuff more sprues in the box isn't 50%. It would cost them another dollar or two per box to double the sprues.

Outsourcing production brings its own headaches and problems because now you've got to manage multiple factories and production sites and aim to keep each one producing to the same high standard, same tolerances and such. This can be a problem in terms of skilled labour as whilst basic operation of the machine and packing is low skill; maintenance, upkeep and management of the machine and parts is all niche high end skills. We've already had posts (either in this thread or another) which noted that GW couldn't easily run a second factory in the USA and in the end it cost them more than simply shipping more stock from a central production facility. The only reason that isn't working great right now is the global pandemic coupled with a surge in sales.

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Gallahad wrote:
I think it is silly to blame Chapterhouse for GW's anti fan behavior.

GW could instantly put bits sellers out of business of they doubled the size of in game units and started pricing HIPS plastic sprues like the low marginal cost product they are. Instead we live in a world where small operation resin garage shops can produce products that compete with GW HIPS plastic kits on price.

In my opinion it is pants on head silly. GW could CRUSH their competitors by flooding the market with low cost high quality miniatures for everything under the sun, but instead they've decided to go boutique with limited print runs and unit prices that have created an entire garage resin industry for recasting and alternative bits.

They are quite literally playing to the weakness of their chosen material.

GW could have easily put the profiles in the latest Slaanesh book, but instead they will keep treating fans like the plastic simps they think we are.

Just one tiny little issue with your idea.

Gw can't keep up with demand as is.

If gw halves prices they need more than double sales or lose money. As they can't keep up wlth demand as is all that would happen is halving income.

Supply and demand. Demand is greater than supply, what happens? Whole western economical system is built on this concept

But things like Wargames Atlantic can pretty easily sell stuff at half the GW's prize?

The point isn't that GW couldn't profit, the point is that GW right now can't meet demand. We keep saying that GW could charge less/put more in the box but at the same time with the content GW has in the box and the price point they have set, GW cannot keep up with demand. They can't actually produce and ship and sell the stuff as fast as customers are buying it. GW has no pressure nor reason to randomly lower their sales on things like troops by 50% by doubling the contents/lowering the price. There's no market pressure acting upon them to lower prices at this stage.

Another thing to consider is that GW as a firm doesn't do loans for expansion. Thus they likely want to retain a good profit per sale because in the end any expansion and growth of their business has to 100% come from the profits. I think this has made them price higher than many others, but with their market dominance they've been able to do this. Heck their UK prices are honestly not far off many of the competition, yet its overseas where price conversions come in that the disparity really shows. At the same time GW has ploughed much of their money back into their own firm and thus the wargaming industry. Running stores; new factory; artwork; books; lore; new products; new technologies; high skill staff etc...

I'd love more in the box; I'd love to see GW settle prices for a few years; I'd love to pay less for the same.
At the same time I can't see a justifiable business reason for GW to lower prices. Settle them yes and I do think getting to £40+ for 5 cavalry is getting high.

As a business though I can see that GW has done it right in terms of sales; they are profiting; they are the giant in the market; they have resources to expand their operation without taking out loans.

**tneva82**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

But things like Wargames Atlantic can pretty easily sell stuff at half the GW's prize?

And how many sprues you sell?

If GW sells 10,000,000 sprue and can produce 10,200,000 sprues a year they can't sell double the sprues by halving the price.

If WA sells 100,000 sprues and have capacity to produce 250,000 sprues a year they can halve the price hoping to more than double the sales.

But sure. Show WA produces and sells more than twice as many sprues as GW if you can. Pretty sure GW sells more sprues though. And their production can't keep up as is. They have constantly items dropping out out of stock for months in case you have been living under the rock for years.

It's easy to say "halve the price, triple the sales"(if you say halve the price, double the sales you would make very bad CEO. You are dropping profits of your company with that strategy) but you can only triple the sales IF YOU CAN PRODUCE TRIPLE THE SPRUES!

Now GW could of course work to improve production capability but opening up new factories isn't a) quick b) cheap c) adds up fixed expenses which adds risks to future. What if you can't keep up with triple the sales in few years? You will end up excess machinery...How much sprues market will in the end get? Do you think you will realistically end up owning 1000 models? 10000? 10000000? How many players GW can realistically end up getting? Would trippling model sales result in some years boom and then trickle down as people already have all the models they need?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

GW also have significantly more overheads than Wargames Atlantic, thanks to their store network.

They’re also not competing for historical sales, so don’t have the same competition for sales.

**ingtaer**

Time to get back to the news and rumours for AOS now, if you wish to continue a discussion about production limitations at GW, economic theory or the state of Nottingham's infrastructure then please do so in a separate thread.
Thanks.

**Yoid**

Ok guys, i discovered something exciting. There seems to be new models hidden in the twins trailer, they seem to be new Daemonettes of some kind (maybe is only the herald, but they seem to be multiple models so maybe is a new kit for Daemonettes or a new type of Daemonette). The process of discovering this was a little complex, so i will try to explain.

It all started when I noticed two small shadowy figures at the end of the Twins trailer when it say "Embrace Excess", then I started researching about one of them that seems to be holding a staff. I looked at all the old banners and icons trying to find a match, but it looked completely new to me. At the moment I was going to write about this I noticed the supposed staff seems unattached to the current model, so I tought it may be simply a torch-like field decoration. Still it was weird to put two random models to decorate that part of the video.

I was looking then at the beggining to make sure the last two shadows were not simply reused drawings from the beggining that depict some Daemonettes at the feet of the Twins, and I discovered something amazing. That staff is actually depicted in the drawing, being wield by a special Daemonette with four arms. But the shadow at the end is much more solid-like akin to a sculpt. That basically confirm that this model exist both in conceptual art and physical form. And since at the end you can see multiple shadows, it more or less confirm that both ar new models. The shadows are a little confusing, so it may be two models in a single base similar to Enrapturess and Epitome. We wil see.

Embrace our excess.

Spoiler:

**DaveC**

Yep there’s daemonettes with full (blank) face masks/helmets shown in the art and the silhouette at the end looks like the same banner in a different position.

**Danny76**

I think the blank faces is just an art style as they’re off in the background.
As opposed to face masks or anything else.

But maybe..

**Tim the Biovore**

The blank faces are definitely an art style thing, and I'm not seeing the second miniature, but yeah, there's definitely a four-armed daemonette with shoulder armour and an icon.

I don't think it's a model in the video, because it's identical to the illustration, but in a different frame of the flat animation they use in these videos, but the sculpt must exist if they intend to drop it at the same time as the Newborn in a few months.

**Geifer**

I wouldn't object to getting a good Daemonette kit for a change. Hope that's what's going to come out of this.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I’ve no problem with the current aesthetic of the Daemonettes, but wouldn’t mind seeing more athletic poses for the models, now they don’t need to rank up.

**Tim the Biovore**

I'd assume it's a plastic Herald to finally complete Hedonites as an all-plastic range. After that, GW can go back to ignoring Slaanesh on the Fantasy side again for a while before finally doing something about those awful Seekers.

**Wha-Mu-077**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’ve no problem with the current aesthetic of the Daemonettes, but wouldn’t mind seeing more athletic poses for the models, now they don’t need to rank up.

I fear all of them will be leaping off boulders or twigs, only connected by the very tip of their claws to the ground.

**Geifer**

A bit more motion would be a start. I still think it's insulting that GW did jumping leaping bouncing Witch Elves on 20mm bases but couldn't figure out half decent poses for Daemonettes that had the larger 25mm bases at their disposal when daemon sculpts were constrained by having to fit into Fantasy regimental formation.

With all the love GW has for drawing inspiration from Rogue Trader and 2nd ed these days, Daemonettes had pretty cool faces in Slaves to Darkness that the plastic models certainly didn't get.

They could use better proportions. The ginormous feet don't fit well with the rest of the body in my opinion. Worked for 2nd ed Daemonettes with their chunkier build and heavy claws. For the lean clawed plastic models, not so much.

Better integration of the tail (as well as perhaps rethinking the length a little) wouldn't go amiss.

Right breast singing the sweet song of freedom while we're at it. A case of GW not reading their own background again. Not that that's going to happen now they doubled down on getting the sides wrong with the mortal Hedonites.

So yeah, better design, please. Consider the current models a first draft to build on.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’ve no problem with the current aesthetic of the Daemonettes, but wouldn’t mind seeing more athletic poses for the models, now they don’t need to rank up.

I fear all of them will be leaping off boulders or twigs, only connected by the very tip of their claws to the ground.

Naturally they will all be leaping off exotic masonry. Remember that true professionals only bring fittingly themed tactical rocks.

**Yoid**

If this one prove to be a model, we can only assume the other similar designs in the drawing are models too. Even one that can only be seen in the thumbnail and seem to be armed with the same staff, but using it as an spear.

Spoiler:

**Overread**

I'd be amazed if they did new deamonettes. Pleased, but amazed.

I think its just some artistic licence at likely simplifying the design and artwork for something that is basically a minor element in the drawing whilst the twins are the key focus. GW has often had little bits like that in artwork that are simply there and varied and not part of a future model.