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Some of my gaming-friends are flustered with the task of fighting GK. Although I myself play with the GK codex, I'm fielding a Coteaz-led Inquisition warbands, so I don't have any problems fighting opponent pure-GK army.

So here I'd like to ask for you guys,on behalf of my fellow friends, to impart & share your knowledge & experience on how to deal with GK, preferably when using SW, BA, & other MEQs.

Thanks.

... Well really the answer is mech up. Sure GK can have psy-Rifle man dreds and cheap melta henchmen ... but other then that they're massively lacking in anti tank.

Few things about them.



1) 24" range guns

Grey Knights have a lot of shooting at the 24" range. Psycannons and Storm Bolters mostly. Their shooting at 36"+ is limited, (but they do have good options). If you can focus fire down their dreads/Razorbacks, then you can outrange them. Dark Eldar or Imperial guard can probably do this the best. Then when the Grey Knights are weakened, you can move in close for the kill shot.

Psy-Rifle Dread can be Tar pitted with a Multiple Assault as well, especially if you have a PF and a Decent save. Consider this if you have out-flankers, maybe even Vanguard Veterans in a DoA list.


2) Close Combat.

Strike Squads and interceptors are okay in close combat, but not really great. WS 4 and only 1 attack each. Against a Horde enemy (Nids, Foot Guard, Orks) these units are only a little better in combat than Vanilla Marines. If you can close the gap without taking a ton of storm bolter fire, they can be taken out in close combat. If you are Marines with Furious Charge, close combat is a good idea as well.

Terminators can be okay in close combat, but they are not unbeatable. They have to chose between Int 6 or having a 4++ save. They are not TH/SS terminators. It is very possible for dedicated close combat units to take them out. Paladins are more durable with WS5 and 2 Wounds, but they only have the same number of attacks as normal Terminators. Again as TH/SS termis will ID them, it might be good idea to send them in. TH/SS + Null Zone is still as deadly as it always was.

Purifiers are tough to beat in combat. They bring a lot of Int 6, and with cleansing flame, they can murder horde units. Your best bet is to shoot them dead, as they come in smaller (or very expensive) squads.


3) Elite Army.

Remember, most of the time you will have more models and units than the Grey Knights. Feel free to sacrifice some stuff if you have to. Send in some meltaguns on a suicide run. Bait their troops out into the open with a juicy target, then hammer them with low AP guns. Block their transports with a Skimmer. I am sure you can come up with an idea.

Lots of plasma and AP3 or better blasts.

If ya can't beat 'em....

....join 'em!

Deadshane1 wrote:If ya can't beat 'em....

....join 'em!

That's a good policy. Start a GK army.

From playing DE:
1) The army is exceedingly good at 1 on 1 combat between units, so you don't want to let that happen. If they go first, see how they deploy and stack on a flank to exploit their deployment.
2) Halberds piss me off. Don't engage in CC if you don't have to.
3) AP2, AP2 everywhere.

Deadshane1 wrote:If ya can't beat 'em....

....join 'em!


That's a good policy. Start a GK army.

That's exactly what my friends were doing. Unfortunately, I've beaten them to pulps with my Inquisition warbands, or on occasions with my BA during their try-outs with the GK codex. So I've proven to them that a GK army is not invincible, but I couldn't explain it to them how to make it so with their own SW, BA or MEQs.


Maybe I could help a little with the BA, but SW & other MEQs... So, maybe you guys who have succesfully playing SW or other MEQs against GK can give some good pointers

Mareens:
Tailoring solutions:
Land raiders redeemers with MM upgrade. 3 of them.

Nontailor solutions:
Space wolves - Long fangs. 15-17 krak shots every turn.
Blood angels - who cares?
Generic marines - land raiders, autolas preds
Black templars - land raiders
Chaos marines - land raiders, defilers

The only thing that threatens AV14 is the dreadknight and it's got a 5+ invul. It's so expensive of a model that if you take it down with lascannons, it might actually be worth it. Assuming it has at least great sword or hammer and the teleporter.
Everything else is just a marine with a power weapon or a marine with stupid broken fire spell with power sword or a marine with a S10 thunderhammer that won't ever get to you because you're going to shoot the jump infantries to death and slowly decimate everything else over the course of a 6 turn game.

Super low models + potential razorback spam = even the las cannon becomes below average anti-infantry. And I say below average is a good thing because it would be shiet tier anti-infantry against any other army.

[oh really

What element of the GK lists is giving him fits?

terranarc wrote:Mareens:
Tailoring solutions:
Land raiders redeemers with MM upgrade. 3 of them.

Nontailor solutions:
Space wolves - Long fangs. 15-17 krak shots every turn.
Blood angels - who cares?
Generic marines - land raiders, autolas preds
Black templars - land raiders
Chaos marines - land raiders, defilers

The only thing that threatens AV14 is the dreadknight and it's got a 5+ invul. It's so expensive of a model that if you take it down with lascannons, it might actually be worth it. Assuming it has at least great sword or hammer and the teleporter.
Everything else is just a marine with a power weapon or a marine with stupid broken fire spell with power sword or a marine with a S10 thunderhammer that won't ever get to you because you're going to shoot the jump infantries to death and slowly decimate everything else over the course of a 6 turn game.

Super low models + potential razorback spam = even the las cannon becomes below average anti-infantry. And I say below average is a good thing because it would be shiet tier anti-infantry against any other army.

Psycannons in assault 4 mode will shred land raiders. For every 3 penetrating hits a lascannon rolls psycannons will produce 8 penetrating hits, and for every 3 glancing hits a lascannon scores a psycannon will score 4 glancing hits. Against land raiders a 1 psycannon is better than 2 lascannons, but not quite as good as 3 lascannons. A squad of purifiers with 4 psycannons has the land raider killing firepower of 10.666 lascannons before it combat squads.

schadenfreude wrote:

terranarc wrote:Mareens:
Tailoring solutions:
Land raiders redeemers with MM upgrade. 3 of them.

Nontailor solutions:
Space wolves - Long fangs. 15-17 krak shots every turn.
Blood angels - who cares?
Generic marines - land raiders, autolas preds
Black templars - land raiders
Chaos marines - land raiders, defilers

The only thing that threatens AV14 is the dreadknight and it's got a 5+ invul. It's so expensive of a model that if you take it down with lascannons, it might actually be worth it. Assuming it has at least great sword or hammer and the teleporter.
Everything else is just a marine with a power weapon or a marine with stupid broken fire spell with power sword or a marine with a S10 thunderhammer that won't ever get to you because you're going to shoot the jump infantries to death and slowly decimate everything else over the course of a 6 turn game.

Super low models + potential razorback spam = even the las cannon becomes below average anti-infantry. And I say below average is a good thing because it would be shiet tier anti-infantry against any other army.

Psycannons in assault 4 mode will shred land raiders. For every 3 penetrating hits a lascannon rolls psycannons will produce 8 penetrating hits, and for every 3 glancing hits a lascannon scores a psycannon will score 4 glancing hits. Against land raiders a 1 psycannon is better than 2 lascannons, but not quite as good as 3 lascannons. A squad of purifiers with 4 psycannons has the land raider killing firepower of 10.666 lascannons before it combat squads.

Very true, the math even supports that a normal assault cannon is superior to lascannon when it comes to dealing with armor.

However, you would need a ton of psysaultcannons to really threaten AV14 or a buttload of luck and I've yet to see someone bring 6 razorbacks to the table. Also, if you're going to use them on infantry, you'll either footslog them or disembark/shoot them and I love it when GKs disembark at 18-24" range. Once it becomes my turn to shoot, GKs are nothing but T4 3+ and they're so expensive per model that just killing 2-3 in a squad with bolters is considered sucesss,
I mean, personally, I wouldn't care at all about psycannons. Every race has some kind of special rape your vehicles weapon. It's going to be meltas, uber monstrous creatures or a flat out rape gun. If I had to choose between more marines in rhinos/razorbacks vs less marines in LRs, I'd go LR because psycannon completely buttfooks lower AVs.'
Also look on GK player's face when he loses a squad to redeemer fire is too amusing to pass up.

Oh on that note, a theoretical tactic just poped into my head. 5-10 Sternguard in a razorback/rhino. Why you ask? Because hellfire rounds will completely rape a potential dreadknight while dealing loads and loads of wounds to any other squads. If the GKs try to close the distance to charge you, just sacrifice them in for a vengence rapid fire.

I've heard good things about that rape gun.

As far as the OP goes, we need more details. What parts of GK are causing issues? Generally speaking, you beat them the same way you beat ANY MEQ. Just like everyone else has said, lots of AP2/3, and lots of power weapons. Assault the bits that will outshoot you and outshoot the bits that will outassault you.

With my codex marines, I am a fan of shooting them in the face, setting them on fire, running them over with a land raider, and having the assault terminators jump up and down on their bodies screaming about Sparta or something. Seriously though....

TH/SS terminators will make an absolute mess of pretty much anything in the GK codex in power or terminator armor, assuming they survive long enough to swing...but that goes for most any opponent that TH/SS have.
Rapid fire bolters work as well on them as any other MEQ.
AP2 and 3 weaponry is wonderful.
MM/HF speeders.
If no daemonhammers are present in his infantry squads, hit them with a dread in CC.
36 and 48 inch range weapons give you little response excepting the rifleman dreads.
Psychic defense. Bring it. Bring a lot of it. Being able to stop his cleansing flame/quicksilver/might of titan unit of falchion turbo-ginsu 5000 deathstar from getting their powers when they come shrieking out of the LR/SR is going to be kind of nice.


What you should -NOT- use against GK:
Assault marines (BA or otherwise.)
CC units without an invulnerable save of some sort (Unless you hold a massive incoming attack:availible wounds ratio. 10 grey hunters versus 3 strike squad members...Duh.) UNLESS your unit has 5+ initiative in the case of swords or falchions, or 7+ in the case of halberds. Or you have lash whips (Hi conflicting FAQs!)...or manipulate cover.

GK are just like any other tier 1 army, you beat them by outplaying them.

Sternguard do have their uses against GK, but shooting a DK with a 2+ armor save with AP5 rounds that wound on a 2+ are not on the top of my list because the GK still has a 2+ armor save. My target priority with sternguard would go as follows.

#1 Best target=Deathcult assassins. Once removed from their transport they will probably have a cover save. Remove the cover save with dragonsfire rounds, wound them on a 3+, add null zone to force rerolls on their invo, and watch them die in droves. They are point for point the nastiest CC unit that GK have in their codex, but they crumble when shot up. Most GK players will mix in 3 crusaders that are T3 with a 3++ SS, and they also crumble when shot with S4 no cover save rounds while null zoned. PS if you have not guessed by now a null zone librarian is really bad news for GK, and I have not even started to talk about what a LD10 psychic hood does to them.

#2= Purifiers that don't have a cover save. Mass psycannons are too dangerous to keep around. Vengeance rounds should make them go away.

#3= Purifiers in cover. Mass wounds from hellfire rounds wounding on a 2+ will force a lot of armor saves.

Anything with a 2+ armor save is on the bottom of my list with sternguard, unless unloading combi plasma.

The best GK solution to a DK is TH/SS terimes combined with null zone. A lot of armies have a real hard time dealing with TH/SS termies + nullzone. The next best solution is rapid fire plasma rifles, but SM are generally lacking in that department.

Psyflemen dreads are very popular, and very weak against MEQ in CC. Charge them with a combat squaded tac squad and it will turn into a hopeless tarpit for the psyfleman dread unless the squad has a pfist sarge, then the dread is screwed.

Aye, sternguard make a very versatile choice against GKs as far as shredding infantry. It also makes them a huge target for the GKs, which is something to factor in to the battle plan.

Librarians will be an all-star for a codex list, you may even want to take two of them. Ever seen a unit of purifiers charge a tac squad in a choke point, wipe out the tac marines, and then, while in a big clump high-fiving each other, get hit with an AP3 psychic flame thrower and die? It's a beautiful sight. This is after, of course, stopping shrouding and hammerhand from going off a couple times.

Well the best codex list IMO is a librarian + Vulcan + plenty of TH/SS termies. If purifiers or paladins can't get off hammerhand because of a LD10 psychic hood the TH/SS termies should squash them in CC regardless of how well equipped they are. Twin linked flamers will also make very short work of DCA + crusaders.

The last time I playedm Grey Knights, I had 3 basalisks, and a bunch of mech vets.

A lucky shot with a Basalisk, took out an entire squad of Grey Knights. And roughly 1/5 of his army.

I spent a significant portion of the rest of the game trying to avoid tabling him.

Thatguyoverthere wrote:The last time I playedm Grey Knights, I had 3 basalisks, and a bunch of mech vets.

A lucky shot with a Basalisk, took out an entire squad of Grey Knights. And roughly 1/5 of his army.

I spent a significant portion of the rest of the game trying to avoid tabling him.

Haha i've had that same experience with my defiler. First match against new GK codex, the guy won the rolloff and decided to go first. So cocksure he was that he deployed all of his infantry in the open preparing to just march 6" and unload S5 stormbolters and psycannons.
Looks like the gods were with me that day as I seized initiative, fired me defiler cannon and wiped out a whole squad of those shunting marines. My grin was from ear to ear as I sacrificed more and more GK to the gods with each turn.

Now, had I played renegade marines instead of chaos marines, I think I would've brought some sternguards for offensive shooting and ass terminators for (amazing) defensive countercharge.
For assaulting terminators, those power weapons aren't scary at all if you consider the both the fact that you have a 3++ and he gets 1 attack per model. A2 dual rape claws > S5 A1 I6 glorified anal probe

The one thing I will always remember from the 3rd ed. SM codex was a little quote they had which basicly said "Fight the enemy on your terms". If thers a shooty unit, assualt them. If theres an assualt unit, shoot them. Plain and simple. They need to know thier armies strenghts and you weknesses, then exploit them.

Question, do any of them have Vidies? It might help.