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Had a discussion tonight in a game regarding dread pivoting in the firering turn. Seems there is question as to wether the dread can pivot to target "only" whats in the 45 deg targeting arc of the guns. I run dreads and have never had this sort of issue come up. Its always been understood that the dread pivot was a free move that allowed you to turn 360 deg and then once you finished that pivot you were limited to the guns firering arc.

Is there anything to support this ?

You are allowed to pivot (require, actually) towards your target. There is no restriction at this point on the weapon, so you can pivot 360 degrees if needed.

nos i agree, however part of the argument is that targeting is limited to the guns arc so you cant have a target you cant see. The assumption is that only things within the guns targeting arc can become targets hence can only be pivoted to.

I play dreads all the time and have never had anyone tell me this and im fully opposed to the limitation due to not finding solid support of it. Its a topic that came up with a friend of mine during a game and apparently something thats been tossed out there in a recent tournament.

No, targetting is NOT limited to the guns arc. Get them to reread the rules on shooting.

You pick a target
THEN you check range and LOS.

In between picking a target and checking range and LOS is when the dread MUST pivot to face.

heres the problem:

pg15

The Shooting Sequence

1. Check line of sight and pick target
Pick one of your units, check its line of sight and choose a target for it. All models in the unit that can see at least one enemy model in the target unit may open fire.


Well according to the shooting sequence you check LoS then the target within it.

the agrument is that a dread has a "facing" unlike infantry so you can only choose the target within its firing arc.

your answer of: "In between picking a target and checking range and LOS is when the dread MUST pivot to face." actually supports his argument because your saying the target must be picked first (which is described in the first part of The Shooting Sequence) then you are allowed to pivot.

The reread the walker rules, which state you must pivot towards what you are firing at.

Or the infantry rules, which also state you must pivot the models to face - infantry dont even have a 45 degree firing arc, in theory they must be pointed directly at their target.

actually infantry dont have to turn its more for dramatic effect but not necessary.

there is not "must" pivot for dreads in the rule so im not sure if they have to do it.

Heres what i argued from the 2 rules.

shooting sequence: which includes infantry and vehicals

-check los
-choose target
-check range

Dread shooting sequence:

-pivot
-choose target
-check range + los

In my opinion its incorrect to assume you need to follow the top shooting sequence which would limit who you could target because it would actually create an inconsistancy in how the dread targeting works in there argument wouldnt it look like this ?:

Dread shooting:
-check los
-choose target
-pivot
-check range +los
???

it also ignores a very specific mention that dread "pivoting" reprsents a vastly superior agility of walkers in comparison to other vehicals.

- remove that vastly superior agility and what difference does the dread have with other vehicals ? i guess maybe the ability to bring "all" weapons to target what your shooting at ?

Unless it is a Chaos Dread that Fire Frenzies.

(time to duck for all the Dreadsocks being swung my way for that one)

zedsdead wrote:- remove that vastly superior agility and what difference does the dread have with other vehicals ? i guess maybe the ability to bring "all" weapons to target what your shooting at ?

That's precisely what the advantage is.

Nos, I'm afraid that, going by the information presented thus far, I'm going to have to disagree. I do not have my rulebook with me, but if indeed the only difference mentioned in walker shooting rules is that they pivot toward their target, then they must still follow the rest of the rules regarding shooting, which is to pick a target after checking line of sight. Pivoting towards their target means there must be a target already chosen.

zedsdead wrote:actually infantry dont have to turn its more for dramatic effect but not necessary.

No, actually, they do.

The movement rules mention that facing is not important when they finish moving because they are turned to face their targets in the shooting phase. The LOS rules then require you to draw LOS from the model's eyes... which you can't do if they're not facing their target.

While a lot of players don't bother with it, it is technically required.

there is not "must" pivot for dreads in the rule so im not sure if they have to do it.

They have to be facing their target in order to shoot at it, just like everyone else.


You choose your target and pivot the dread to face it. While the shooting sequence does seem to suggest that you check LOS before you can declare a target, that would effectively stop infantry from ever shooting at anything that is not directly in front of them, since they don't have a defined fire arc. Which is clearly not what is being suggested when the rules tell us that their facing is not important as they can be turned to face their targets...

Walkers have special shooting rules on BRB page 72

When firing a walker's weapons, pivot the walker on the spot so that its guns are aimed at the target [snipped] ... and then measure the range from the weapon itself and LOS along its barrel, as normal for vehicles

So, the Walker can pivot all the way around to shoot.

insaniak wrote:

zedsdead wrote:actually infantry dont have to turn its more for dramatic effect but not necessary.

No, actually, they do.

The movement rules mention that facing is not important when they finish moving because they are turned to face their targets in the shooting phase. The LOS rules then require you to draw LOS from the model's eyes... which you can't do if they're not facing their target.

While a lot of players don't bother with it, it is technically required.

there is not "must" pivot for dreads in the rule so im not sure if they have to do it.

They have to be facing their target in order to shoot at it, just like everyone else.


You choose your target and pivot the dread to face it. While the shooting sequence does seem to suggest that you check LOS before you can declare a target, that would effectively stop infantry from ever shooting at anything that is not directly in front of them, since they don't have a defined fire arc. Which is clearly not what is being suggested when the rules tell us that their facing is not important as they can be turned to face their targets...

I think your missing the RAW of walkers firing. Walkers Shooting pg 72 establishes a separate order for walkers outside of normal firing restrictions established by the clause "When firing a walker's weapon" (Walkers Shooting, paragraph 3) It is impractical to try to combine the two sequences. RAW sequence of walkers shooting is as such.

1. Pick a target and pivot to face target
2. Check LOS and range of weapon
3. Roll dice etc.

Separating 1 into into two different steps only complicates what is clearly laid out.

thanks guys i agree with the rational. Just was trying to find out if there was anything that held weight in supporting the argument that they could only pivot to whats in there firering arc. your comments bolster my argument. thx

the only times a Walker's firing arcs will come into effect will be an immobilized walker. Immobilized walkers lose their ability to pivot and so will revert to the normal rules for shooting.