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I have a local tournament coming up in a few months and am thinking about bringing this list.

HQ
Warboss - power klaw, attack squig, cybork -

Big Mek - kustom force field

Troops
18x Grotz - runtherd
19x Ork Boys - nob w/power klaw, boss pole
12x Ork Boys - nob w/power klaw, boss pole, trukk w/ram, big shoota
6x Nobz - power klaw, big choppa, big choppa and boss pole, boss pole, painboy, and slugga/choppa, cyborks

Elites
5x Lootas
5x Lootas

Fast Attack
Deff Kopta - twin link rokkits, buzz saw

Heavy Support
2x Battle Wagons - deffrolla, big shoota, red paint

1250 on the nose.

Warboss goes with nobz, big mek goes with 19 ork boys in wagon. Lone trukk boys hide behind wagons and pounce on choice targets. It should do well. What do you guys think?

Looks really solid, esp at this pt lvl. My only concern is about the lone Kopta. In a KP mission it's an easy one to steal. Although the ability to outflank and take out some tanks may make it worth it. Looks like you should do fine. Do you know what other sorts of lists you'll be going up against?

Personally, i've been using the warboss with a big choppa and attack squig, initiative 5 on charge at strength 8 with 6 attacks... adding this kind of warboss to nobs is very strong, plus if the nob squad already has a powerklaw, no need to waste a good base strength 5. This will save you 20 points. Drop 8 of those grotz (don't waste points, forget about needing to be fearless *if they get shot at and die, they're screwed anyways*. there's another 24 points.
44

for the deff kopta, either give it a twin link rokkit or give it a buzzsaw not both. Remember its "only" a str 7 on the charge (presumably vehicle rear armor). drop the rokkits, save yourself 10 more points.
54

drop the big shoota from wagons (its nice that they can shoot, but how much damage can they REALLY do?) saved 10 points.
64

drop the ram from the 12 boyz trukk, saved 5 points
69

drop 1 boy from the 19 boyz BW squad, save 6 points (i hesitate on this one, but trust me)
75

you now have 75 more points = another squad of 5 lootas

schan122 wrote:Personally, i've been using the warboss with a big choppa and attack squig, initiative 5 on charge at strength 8 with 6 attacks... adding this kind of warboss to nobs is very strong, plus if the nob squad already has a powerklaw, no need to waste a good base strength 5. This will save you 20 points.

for the deff kopta, either give it a twin link rokkit or give it a buzzsaw not both. Remember its "only" a str 7 on the charge (presumably vehicle rear armor). drop the rokkits, save yourself 10 more points.
54

drop the big shoota from wagons (its nice that they can shoot, but how much damage can they REALLY do?) saved 10 points.
64

drop the ram from the 12 boyz trukk, saved 5 points
69

drop 1 boy from the 19 boyz BW squad, save 6 points (i hesitate on this one, but trust me)
75

I actually disagree with all of that advice. Removing the Warboss's Klaw removes his power weapon, and S10 attacks. He's the hardest hitting model in the army. Don't change that.

Koptas should always have both TL Rokkits and Saws if they're in different squads. Any other kitting option makes them useless. Max out their ability to crack transports. Dropping either of those upgrades kills their value entirely.

Do NOT drop the Big Shootas from the Wagons... they're likely the most important upgrade you can take after the 'Rolla.

Rams on Trukks is the first upgrade I always grab. TS + Terrain re-rolls? For 5 pts? Sick.

I would not take less than the Max # of boyz unless you have to for some reason.

If you engage the kopta in close combat with the buzzsaw, it won't be using the rokkits. either the deffkopta hides and shoots, or rushes in and CC then gets shot up.

there's no REAL need for a str 10 if there's a nob with S9, against vehicles (negligible difference) unless your against a LR which you can just ignore anyways. besides having an initiative 5 on the charge allows you to take out MANY targets (strength 8!) before they get a chance. Let's be honest, you'll probably be playing quite a few space marines at the local tourny and they have I4. take out more space marines and you'll take less hits from them. (this isn't tailoring, its statistic strategy)

Why would having 3 shots from a wagon be of any worth?

putting a ram on a trukk is pointless, you have armor 10 all around, if you crash into something, the trukk is more likely to go boom than anything else. why do you need to drive on terrain anyways? presumably there will be a ground path to take


though i agree with you on the boyz part, i hesitated to remove a boy, but having an extra squad of 5 lootas DOES seem to offset the big shoota from the wagon


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i'm still very confused as to why you would have both TLRL and buzzsaw on deff kopta?

the buzzsaw is worth 71% of the base cost of the deff kopta which is a very cheap kill point. that is a large potential waste of points. With a buzzsaw, you go outflank and hit a tank rear armor, then next turn it gets shot up and dies.

with the TLRL its a better investment to keep the deff kopta behind some cover while still allowing sneak shots at whatever you target. there's is absolutely no reason to spend the cost of a deff kopta just to upgrade a deffkopta

Without a weapon on the battlewagon, weapon destroyed results become immobilized, rendering the vehicle useless.

The rokkits work well in combination with the buzz saw as it gives you two chances to accomplish a suicide strike mission (which let's face it is one of the kopta's primary roles). infiltrate, scout move, dash in, fire the rockets, then follow up with the assault of the rockets fail.

the battlewagon has armor side 14 so i guess i never really considered the immobilization a big issue... its true that those 5 points on each battle wagon could help you on that...but i still think armor 14 is sufficient to get you to the front lines.

i just still don't agree on spending a deff kopta to upgrade a deff kopta. i understand what you mean by the double chance though, i just still think saving some points for another squad of lootas is an overall better investment of points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
though there seems to be a consensus that the extra loota squad isn't worth it, hmmm perhaps i'm over valuing them?

schan122 wrote:the battlewagon has armor side 14 so i guess i never really considered the immobilization a big issue... its true that those 5 points on each battle wagon could help you on that...but i still think armor 14 is sufficient to get you to the front lines.

i just still don't agree on spending a deff kopta to upgrade a deff kopta. i understand what you mean by the double chance though, i just still think saving some points for another squad of lootas is an overall better investment of points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
though there seems to be a consensus that the extra loota squad isn't worth it, hmmm perhaps i'm over valuing them?

I don't have my dex, but I think it's only the front armor on a Battle Wagon that's 14.

Most people swear by lootas I admit... I just haven't had much luck with them (consistently poor dice rolling). But, they're one-dimensional & aren't scoring. Depending on the tourney that can be a real problem, especially in low point value lists.

yeah its only the front armor, but positioning the BW's properly is one of the more important aspects of even using them.

I just think the warboss is a perfectly legitimate choice for its "high" initiative, high strength and lots of attacks. Save your nobs from taking any more damage than they need. The difference between a s10 power weapon and a s9 power weapon is relatively small, especially if your looking at an average of 10 strength 7 shots that can be fired from turn 1.

Warboss needs a powerklaw. Big choppa warbosses are cool with I 5 but space marines get armour saves so he most licky will not be killing anything if your opponent is lucky, so keep the powerklaw. Next think about getting rid of some of the grots and getting the nob squad a waggh banner hitting on 3s on most things can be huge. In all that is a good list at 1250 good luck at the tournament

Thanks for all of the responses. I too am on the warboss powerklaw band wagon. It is just too nasty not to take. A warboss with power klaw can kill any target.

My main question with the list is the lone deff kopta. I usually use two of these units but I had to cut one to beef up my nobz. I have had games where one kopta wiffs its shots and melee attacks and the other one hit/wreck/explode its own target. I think one will do fine but I should not expect it to always come through. I will just have to keep that in mind when positioning units.

As for the trukk with ram. That is probably one of the best upgrades for 5 points in the whole codex. Reroll failed dangerous terrain tests and the ability to tank shock. Whats not to like?

Warboss Brokentoof wrote:Thanks for all of the responses. I too am on the warboss powerklaw band wagon. It is just too nasty not to take. A warboss with power klaw can kill any target.

My main question with the list is the lone deff kopta. I usually use two of these units but I had to cut one to beef up my nobz. I have had games where one kopta wiffs its shots and melee attacks and the other one hit/wreck/explode its own target. I think one will do fine but I should not expect it to always come through. I will just have to keep that in mind when positioning units.

As for the trukk with ram. That is probably one of the best upgrades for 5 points in the whole codex. Reroll failed dangerous terrain tests and the ability to tank shock. Whats not to like?

For the kopta, if you do your scout move right, there should be no problem to pop the transport. If you do not ahve 1st turn and you're stuck outflanking, it might be harder to get that vehicle. But 70 is not even 10% of your points so even if it fails it will have pulled fire away from your boyz for one turn (not worth 70 points but could be worst)

schan122 wrote:If you engage the kopta in close combat with the buzzsaw, it won't be using the rokkits. either the deffkopta hides and shoots, or rushes in and CC then gets shot up.

You use the Rokkits and the Buzzsaw in the same turn. You move, shoot the Rokkits at the vehicle, and then charge the vehicle to get attacks on the rear armor. It maximizes the number of attacks you can use in a single turn to attack armor. It's also great against small exposed squads. Scouts, MEQ, etc. They're required for having effective strikes against squads.

schan122 wrote:there's no REAL need for a str 10 if there's a nob with S9, against vehicles (negligible difference) unless your against a LR which you can just ignore anyways. besides having an initiative 5 on the charge allows you to take out MANY targets (strength 8!) before they get a chance. Let's be honest, you'll probably be playing quite a few space marines at the local tourny and they have I4. take out more space marines and you'll take less hits from them. (this isn't tailoring, its statistic strategy)

Actually, you take out less Marines because they get an armor save against the BC. The PK is a power weapon.

schan122 wrote:Why would having 3 shots from a wagon be of any worth?

They're not. Taking the Shoota keeps you from getting immobilized on a weapons destroyed result. It's one of the core protective upgrades that EVERY battlewagon should take.

schan122 wrote:putting a ram on a trukk is pointless, you have armor 10 all around, if you crash into something, the trukk is more likely to go boom than anything else. why do you need to drive on terrain anyways? presumably there will be a ground path to take

The ram lets you tank shock. And it adds 2 to your front armor if you ram vehicles. And it allows you to park your Trukk in cover to get a cover save. It's the best upgrade (and usually the only upgrade) worth getting on Ork Trukks.

schan122 wrote:though i agree with you on the boyz part, i hesitated to remove a boy, but having an extra squad of 5 lootas DOES seem to offset the big shoota from the wagon

What?

schan122 wrote:i'm still very confused as to why you would have both TLRL and buzzsaw on deff kopta?

So you can shoot and charge in the same turn with both effects giving you value.

schan122 wrote:the buzzsaw is worth 71% of the base cost of the deff kopta which is a very cheap kill point. that is a large potential waste of points. With a buzzsaw, you go outflank and hit a tank rear armor, then next turn it gets shot up and dies.

A PK is more points than a Nob too, should we drop those as well? No. Klaws are good because they give you weapons that are effective against things your weak against. Buzzsaws are no different.

schan122 wrote:with the TLRL its a better investment to keep the deff kopta behind some cover while still allowing sneak shots at whatever you target. there's is absolutely no reason to spend the cost of a deff kopta just to upgrade a deffkopta

That's not at all true. The Buzzsaw is invaluable against light armor and small exposed MEQ squads. I would NEVER take a lone Kopta without one. Ever.

schan122 wrote:I just think the warboss is a perfectly legitimate choice for its "high" initiative, high strength and lots of attacks. Save your nobs from taking any more damage than they need. The difference between a s10 power weapon and a s9 power weapon is relatively small, especially if your looking at an average of 10 strength 7 shots that can be fired from turn 1.

Dude. A Big Choppa is NOT a power weapon. THAT's why there's such a difference between the two.

schan122 wrote:though there seems to be a consensus that the extra loota squad isn't worth it, hmmm perhaps i'm over valuing them?

No. Lootas are fantastic. What you're doing is vastly undervaluing all those other upgrades.