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I've recently started with FoW, and I'm currently building up an Italian mid-war force. Now, there aren't too many opponents in my area at the moment, so I anticipate having to pull people in myself, which of course then includes making a second army for play-testing.

Keeping the second army to the North Africa theatre and making an "enemy" army to my Italians seems like the way to go. That pretty much leaves me with the british.

Having seen the newly arrived Plastic Company Shermans, that seems like a brilliant start to the army. 27$ for 5 great looking shermans is insane value, can't go wrong with these. My problem is that while I want this second army to be cheap, I also want it to include some different units and allow for different point levels, so going all out on shermans is sadly not an option.

The only other unit that MUST be included is a unit of australian infantry. (they will be rhodesians in the army, so not neccessarily australian rules) BF charges about 25$ for one platoon of these guys.

Another option is to buy aussie infantry from old glory, but they do not provide pics of the figs or even tell me how many figures are in a pack Old Glory (OG) is probably quite a lot cheaper, but I'm only guessing as I don't know quality or quantity of their products. They do provide aussie artillery and anti-tank crews though, something BF does not. Anybody have experience with OG? I'm thinking about ordering a pack of aussie artillery crews for 10$ for a low-risk quality check, but would love input on their quality and quantity.

To round out the army, I was thinking about adding some light tanks or recon and some artillery, but these are just ideas.
As an example of artillery cost: 4x25 pounder cost 18$ from Command Decision (OG). If the aussie crew is enough for these guns, then it's not too bad, ending up at 28$. Staff team, spotters etc may cause some issues though. BF in comparrison charges 80$ for a complete 4 gun battery (so that's not gonna happen), or 23$ for enough crew for 4 guns.

Universial carriers can be bought for 4$ a piece from gaming models (but without crews :/).

I'm leaning towards building a north Africa New Zealand rifle company, but that would up the cost quite a lot if I have to use BF models, leaving me at 75$ for just the combat platoons. If OG aussies look good and those 10$ buy me a lot of them though, it should be doable.

In addition, BF charges about 13$ for a pack of bases


Something like this for 1500pts is my initial thought for an interesting, but cheap-to-build army:

1x CHQ 0$/2.5$ (use from OG packs/aussie CHQ from BF)

3xfull rifle platoons 40$/75$ (estimating a need for 4 packs of OG aussies to create these guys/buy BF platoons)

2x3 shermans 54$ (buying 2 packs from plastic solider company, giving me 4 shermans to spare)

4x25pounder 28$/41$ (OG guns + OG crew/OG guns + BF crew)

Bases 39$/13$ (OG heavy/BF heavy)

Subtotal 161$/185$ (excluding shipping)


I'm surprised that the BF-heavy option isn't much more expensive, the need for bases and the probable need for buying different kinds of OG infantry packs to fill out a FoW platoon seems to pull the non-BF price up.

I would love some input on how you would build a low-cost, but varied, 1500pts british mid-war army, and if anybody have any experience with OG infantry (or other suppliers), then please add you wisdom. Same with alternative to the gold-plated BF base-packs.

Several companies produce identically sized bases much cheaper than BF. Also check out Plastic Soldier's infantry options.

Do you have a link to an alternative base producer?

Plastic solider does not provide any british infantry, and looking at their russian infantry, I'm not convinced about the quality.

For alternative british infanty, Forged in Battle is an option. I would have to step away from my aussie infantry, but it would cut costs.

FiB british infantry mega-deal gives enough infantry for 3xfull infantry platoons + HMG platoon + 3inch mortar platoon for 53$. Unsure if they come on fitting bases for FoW though. Anybody own any FiB infantry? Are the bases right for FoW?

If the bases are right, it seems you could get a pretty interesting british army with several options for about 110$->155$. (only tanks+infantry/tanks+infantry+artillery)

If I can get someone to buy the 4 extra shermans, that would cut costs down to around 85$->130$ with possibility to drop the high number by a bit with cheaper bases. That is pretty damned cheap for what amounts to a quite interesting 1750pts army that can also scale down pretty well.

Honestly, as long as you aren't married to the idea of rounded corners and beveled edges, you can make your own bases out of a suitable sheet of polystyrene.

Found this base-supplier: http://www.warbases.co.uk/#/flames-of-war/4543250910

1.50$ for each base pack. That should cut down basing costs

Old Glory comes 50 infantry to a bag.

The sculpts are usually pretty good but sometimes the casting is a bit off (though I have found this more with vehicles than infantry).

I have a fair bit of Old Glory in my collection but I tend to only buy it a cons where I can see what I am getting.

Illumini wrote:Do you have a link to an alternative base producer?

Plastic solider does not provide any british infantry, and looking at their russian infantry, I'm not convinced about the quality.

For alternative british infanty, Forged in Battle is an option. I would have to step away from my aussie infantry, but it would cut costs.

FiB british infantry mega-deal gives enough infantry for 3xfull infantry platoons + HMG platoon + 3inch mortar platoon for 53$. Unsure if they come on fitting bases for FoW though. Anybody own any FiB infantry? Are the bases right for FoW?

If the bases are right, it seems you could get a pretty interesting british army with several options for about 110$->155$. (only tanks+infantry/tanks+infantry+artillery)

If I can get someone to buy the 4 extra shermans, that would cut costs down to around 85$->130$ with possibility to drop the high number by a bit with cheaper bases. That is pretty damned cheap for what amounts to a quite interesting 1750pts army that can also scale down pretty well.

Flames of war infantry rarely fits on FOW bases

I have some FIB mortars for my russians and they are better then the FOW ones.

I have some FIB mortars for my russians and they are better then the FOW ones.

Sounds promising. Are the bases they come supplied with the same size as normal FoW bases?

Old Glory comes 50 infantry to a bag.

Found out that the aussie infantry is not actually OG infantry, they are just sold through their website. They are quality casting, anybody have any experience with them? Don't know how anybody can run a miniature-selling business without providing pics or even a description telling you how many figs you're buying. It's a total gamble

Link to the site selling QC aussies:
http://oldglory15s.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=6_8_40

EDIT: Finally my search-fu gives results. QC packs are 24men in each. That would mean that for 3x full rifle platoons, I would have to buy 3xinfantry packs, 1x command pack, 1x HMG pack, 1x mortar pack = 60$ + bases. Might as well buy BF if I want aussies it seems, then I know what I get as well.

FIB dont come with bases

For reference, Plastic Soldier do 1;72 British Infantry, which will be released in 28mm and 15mm respectively. Pretty much all of the plastics that are coming in one scale are also due to appear in others.

I was curious and found this review on the PSC Russian infantry:

http://wwiicentral.blogspot.com/2011/02/plastic-soldier-company-15mm-russian.html

The reviewer says they are the proper size and look fine, but have a few strange poses and they don't fit well with BF miniatures because they are realistically scaled (he includes some good comparison pics.)

Overall they look pretty good from his close up pictures.

They seem to fit better with Peter Pig stuff, but are a wee bit tall for Old Glory. Mostly the "scale" issue with the BF stuff is that BF figures have massive bobble-heads, and occasionally other freakish proportions. If I have any moans about PSC troops, it is that they can be terribly fragile in the gun area, and might benefit from a bit of brass-rod for gun barrels.

Thanks for the info guys. That review and the close ups certainly put PSC back on the map regarding infantry too. I will still go with FiB infantry for my british army as they are available now and at only a slightly increased price to PSC infantry.

I've made up a new list:
NZ rifle company
1x CHQ
3x Full Rifle Platoons (-AT rifles)
1x 3'' mortar platoon
3x Sherman, .50 cals
3x 'Honey' Stuart
1x 4x25pdr battery
1500pts

I've done the calculations including shipping etc, FiB and PSC bought from Maelstromgames, command decision bought from Old Glory, bases from warbases.co.uk:

3xFiB BEF platoon @ 8.10£ = 24.30£
1xFiB BEF Mortars @ 4.72£
1xPSC Shermans @ 14.85£
1xCD 25pdr. @ 11£ + 2.20 shipping
1xCD desert rat artillery crew @ 11£ + 2.20 shipping
1xCD Honey @ 17£ + 3.40 shipping
90,7£
+10,78euro in bases (giving me quite a few extra of each type)
= 165$

Pretty close to my original list in price even with shipping, but this one seems more interesting IMO. The list can get even cheaper by going for gaming models stuarts, but the CD ones look good, and I'm still way below my budget of max 200$, so I didn't chance the varable quality gaming models. Too bad I had to drop the aussies though :/

You may consider by buying Axis & Allies version 2 vehicles. Most can be had for $2-5 per vehicle.

I haven't been able to find the version 2 (which are the ones with year-range in front right?) stuart at any A&A singles vendor, do you know of a good vendor for A&A stuff?

Just bought 10xM11/39 and 4xAB41 for my Italians for 20$. A&A are certainly cheap

Illumini wrote:I haven't been able to find the version 2 (which are the ones with year-range in front right?) stuart at any A&A singles vendor, do you know of a good vendor for A&A stuff?

Counter Offensive Lend-Lease Stuart
http://www.trollandtoad.com/p303084.html

Just bought 10xM11/39 and 4xAB41 for my Italians for 20$. A&A are certainly cheap

I'm making nearly an entire Esplorante squadron out of AB41s, M11s, and L6s. The only non-A&A minis are the Semovente 75 platoon and the Demolisher (pioneer) platoon from BF. Total cost was under $80.

BEF infantry in the desert?

How odd.

Never seen any evidence of the respirator chest rig being worn in the desert.

Im too anal for FOW.

Big P wrote:Im too anal for FOW

Probably, but the game can hardly be blamed for my choice of models

You can help making the world a slightly better place for people like yourself that I might run into by pointing out for me which of the two british FiB infantry sets fits the desert best (or at least, which one would offend you less ), the early war guys or the later war guys with camo on their helmets. I'm aware that neither are the perfect fit, but we're building on a bugdet here.

ancientsociety wrote:I'm making nearly an entire Esplorante squadron out of AB41s, M11s, and L6s. The only non-A&A minis are the Semovente 75 platoon and the Demolisher (pioneer) platoon from BF. Total cost was under $80.

Very nice Esplorante + early war was the idea behind my latest purchases too. I have a couple of their AB41's, and they are quite decent miniatures when you repaint them, hope the M11 is decent too, do you have any yet? Have also been looking at the L6's, is the quality on those okay?

Too bad the stuart was one of the poorer quality miniatures.

Illumini wrote:

ancientsociety wrote:I'm making nearly an entire Esplorante squadron out of AB41s, M11s, and L6s. The only non-A&A minis are the Semovente 75 platoon and the Demolisher (pioneer) platoon from BF. Total cost was under $80.

Very nice Esplorante + early war was the idea behind my latest purchases too. I have a couple of their AB41's, and they are quite decent miniatures when you repaint them, hope the M11 is decent too, do you have any yet? Have also been looking at the L6's, is the quality on those okay?

Too bad the stuart was one of the poorer quality miniatures.

I have all three minis. The AB41 is really the best of the bunch. The M11 is nice but there's no dual MG position to the right of the driver and the rear of the engine deck isn't even there. That's easily rectified with plasticard but it's still a pain. I will say though that the lack of the MG position and the fact that the turret is removable means it can easily be converted to a Carro Commando for the Semovente platoon.

The L6 is just OK. The problem is the gun is too long for the soft plastic used in the turrets and droops a little.

ancientsociety wrote:

Illumini wrote:

ancientsociety wrote:I'm making nearly an entire Esplorante squadron out of AB41s, M11s, and L6s. The only non-A&A minis are the Semovente 75 platoon and the Demolisher (pioneer) platoon from BF. Total cost was under $80.

Very nice Esplorante + early war was the idea behind my latest purchases too. I have a couple of their AB41's, and they are quite decent miniatures when you repaint them, hope the M11 is decent too, do you have any yet? Have also been looking at the L6's, is the quality on those okay?

Too bad the stuart was one of the poorer quality miniatures.

I have all three minis. The AB41 is really the best of the bunch. The M11 is nice but there's no dual MG position to the right of the driver and the rear of the engine deck isn't even there. That's easily rectified with plasticard but it's still a pain. I will say though that the lack of the MG position and the fact that the turret is removable means it can easily be converted to a Carro Commando for the Semovente platoon.

The L6 is just OK. The problem is the gun is too long for the soft plastic used in the turrets and droops a little.

I have one of the M11 and I have noticed that when put next to a FoW model with the same hull design, they are still a slightly smaller scale. They are about 1/2 cm shorter in length than the BF ones, and lower down than them too. This is noticeable if put near a tank that should be the same size that is from BF, and I think they also look a little weaker than they already do. The proportions of the tank also seem off, as the tracks are a lot smaller than they should be and the front is extended.

Go with the BEF figures.

The helmet is the same shape. The late war helemt (44 Pattern) differed greatly in shape. Also plenty of troops, especially during the early fighting against the Italians wore long trousers rather than shorts. They even wore greatcoats too.

Also you rarely see any helmet camo in the desert apart from applied wet sand or painted camo patterns (generally black/Dark Brown over sand). The painted helmet camo was fairly rare in general, though the sand application was more common as it was to reduce sun glare off the helmet giving away a soldiers position in the strong sunlight.

As for vehicle colour schemes, thats all dependant on the year you coose to recreate! But as its Shermans in your army Im guessing its the later desert period so dark brown camo over sand would be common, or plain sand. Caunter seems to have been getting rarer at that point (El Alamein period).

General Seric wrote:

ancientsociety wrote:

Illumini wrote:

ancientsociety wrote:I'm making nearly an entire Esplorante squadron out of AB41s, M11s, and L6s. The only non-A&A minis are the Semovente 75 platoon and the Demolisher (pioneer) platoon from BF. Total cost was under $80.

Very nice Esplorante + early war was the idea behind my latest purchases too. I have a couple of their AB41's, and they are quite decent miniatures when you repaint them, hope the M11 is decent too, do you have any yet? Have also been looking at the L6's, is the quality on those okay?

Too bad the stuart was one of the poorer quality miniatures.

I have all three minis. The AB41 is really the best of the bunch. The M11 is nice but there's no dual MG position to the right of the driver and the rear of the engine deck isn't even there. That's easily rectified with plasticard but it's still a pain. I will say though that the lack of the MG position and the fact that the turret is removable means it can easily be converted to a Carro Commando for the Semovente platoon.

The L6 is just OK. The problem is the gun is too long for the soft plastic used in the turrets and droops a little.

I have one of the M11 and I have noticed that when put next to a FoW model with the same hull design, they are still a slightly smaller scale. They are about 1/2 cm shorter in length than the BF ones, and lower down than them too. This is noticeable if put near a tank that should be the same size that is from BF, and I think they also look a little weaker than they already do. The proportions of the tank also seem off, as the tracks are a lot smaller than they should be and the front is extended.

It should be noted that BF tanks are almost always incorrect proportions for 15mm. They are generally taller (to conform to the standard FOW base depth) and usually wider.

Honestly, if you're THAT much of a stickler over .5cm difference in scale, then cost shouldn't be a factor. For me however, saving $30 buying 5 A&A M13s vs. the BF platoon is awesome. YMMV.

ancientsociety wrote:

General Seric wrote:

ancientsociety wrote:

Illumini wrote:

ancientsociety wrote:I'm making nearly an entire Esplorante squadron out of AB41s, M11s, and L6s. The only non-A&A minis are the Semovente 75 platoon and the Demolisher (pioneer) platoon from BF. Total cost was under $80.

Very nice Esplorante + early war was the idea behind my latest purchases too. I have a couple of their AB41's, and they are quite decent miniatures when you repaint them, hope the M11 is decent too, do you have any yet? Have also been looking at the L6's, is the quality on those okay?

Too bad the stuart was one of the poorer quality miniatures.

I have all three minis. The AB41 is really the best of the bunch. The M11 is nice but there's no dual MG position to the right of the driver and the rear of the engine deck isn't even there. That's easily rectified with plasticard but it's still a pain. I will say though that the lack of the MG position and the fact that the turret is removable means it can easily be converted to a Carro Commando for the Semovente platoon.

The L6 is just OK. The problem is the gun is too long for the soft plastic used in the turrets and droops a little.

I have one of the M11 and I have noticed that when put next to a FoW model with the same hull design, they are still a slightly smaller scale. They are about 1/2 cm shorter in length than the BF ones, and lower down than them too. This is noticeable if put near a tank that should be the same size that is from BF, and I think they also look a little weaker than they already do. The proportions of the tank also seem off, as the tracks are a lot smaller than they should be and the front is extended.

It should be noted that BF tanks are almost always incorrect proportions for 15mm. They are generally taller (to conform to the standard FOW base depth) and usually wider.

Honestly, if you're THAT much of a stickler over .5cm difference in scale, then cost shouldn't be a factor. For me however, saving $30 buying 5 A&A M13s vs. the BF platoon is awesome. YMMV.

I was mainly saying that they can't be mixed with BF ones because they look a lot different than them. This is mainly a problem for me because I already have 2 BF 75/18s and I was looking at adding 1 or 2 A&A 75/18s for cheap but they would not look right next to each other.

Big P wrote:Go with the BEF figures.

The helmet is the same shape. The late war helemt (44 Pattern) differed greatly in shape. Also plenty of troops, especially during the early fighting against the Italians wore long trousers rather than shorts. They even wore greatcoats too.

Also you rarely see any helmet camo in the desert apart from applied wet sand or painted camo patterns (generally black/Dark Brown over sand). The painted helmet camo was fairly rare in general, though the sand application was more common as it was to reduce sun glare off the helmet giving away a soldiers position in the strong sunlight.

As for vehicle colour schemes, thats all dependant on the year you coose to recreate! But as its Shermans in your army Im guessing its the later desert period so dark brown camo over sand would be common, or plain sand. Caunter seems to have been getting rarer at that point (El Alamein period).

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/all_images/Historical/FKandC/British-in-tunisia.jpg

Early War infantry would fit this image reasonably well.