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So I know a lot of people think Deathleaper isn't a good choice. Yeah, a WS 9, 6 attacks on the charge, str 6 guy with 3 wounds at only T4 doesn't look good.... HOWEVER, with the advent of the new GK's and DE, Deathleaper could have some great applications on many battlefields. Yes, he takes up our coveted Elites slot; but when he can single handedly lock down things like Paladins or stop Mephiston more often; could it be worth it? Lets take a look:

"Its after me!"
- Nominate a single enemy character (I'm assuming this means any model...?) and roll a D3. That models leadership is d3 lower until Deathleaper dies.

So this power to be screams "awesomesauce!". There are several reasons for this:
- Lowering ANY model in your foes army by D3 leadership can be a HUGE boon. The reason I point this out, specifically, is Grey knights; Target their Justicars (like the Paladin), whos leadership they must use for psychic tests until hes kerpoofed. Target the one whos in the largest, beefiest squad, and watch as they roll 3d6 for psychic tests using LD 7! Or how about that DE archon thats been tearing through your stuff... D3 less leadership means when your Horms or Terms tear up his Wych retinue, hes far more likely to book it. The biggest thing with this from my point of view is stopping guys like Mephiston from wrecking house; If you get a 3 Meph basically becomes an MC; hes far less likely to get off any powers. Charge him with a swarm of whatever and watch as he flounders without his rerolls!

"What was that?"
- All enemy models trying to move through terrain within 12" roll 1 less D6.

I could see this power being pretty good on terrain heavy maps. Rolling only 1d6 for movement through any type of terrain means enemies are going half as fast!

"Where is it?"
- Roll nightfighting and cut your distance rolled in half when shooting leaper and must use the first test.

If you play Leaper with cunning (aka Dont DS him right next to your opponents venoms) he could be a real pain in the ass to catch and kill. On average an opponent will only be able to see around 11".

"Where'd it go?"
- If you end your movement outside 1" of a foe you can redeploy via deepstrike

Seriously...? Awesome! This ability can single handedly win you a Seize Ground game! Just keep hoping back into reserves til turn 5, pop out and contest. Just huddle up on your objective and hope the game ends haha!

Not to mention his 5/6 rending attacks and fleshhooks! And being WS 9 if any opponent cares to try his look his average marine/whatever will be hitting him on 5's; which he'll then Hit and Run out and escape, leaving opponents floundering. Combine this all with Stealth (You could go to ground and then hop back into reserves...? The BRB doesn't say you can't) and I think he could possibly be a winner when played correctly!

So what do ya'll think?

Now, i'm not a tyranids player, but i've looked through the codex once or twice, and the deathleaper is what i call awesomesauce. It's obviously not something that you charge into things and wipe out squads with. It's a subtle killer, used for surgical strikes. It's also so terribly down-played, that no-one will really bother to shoot at it. And it doesn't suffer from vindicare assasin syndrom(the model is overlooked until it does something highly dangerous but doesn't quite make its points back, and is then immediatly destroyed) because it is, again, subtle in its benifits and killing power. You won't see something like this going toe-to-toe with some squad and killing it. It should probably be killing a couple models in the squad, leave, and repeat somewhere else.

loota boy wrote:Now, i'm not a tyranids player, but i've looked through the codex once or twice, and the deathleaper is what i call awesomesauce. It's obviously not something that you charge into things and wipe out squads with. It's a subtle killer, used for surgical strikes. It's also so terribly down-played, that no-one will really bother to shoot at it. And it doesn't suffer from vindicare assasin syndrom(the model is overlooked until it does something highly dangerous but doesn't quite make its points back, and is then immediatly destroyed) because it is, again, subtle in its benifits and killing power. You won't see something like this going toe-to-toe with some squad and killing it. It should probably be killing a couple models in the squad, leave, and repeat somewhere else.

Exactly my thoughts; Leapers not a "raw killing machine" like, say, swarmlord. Played correctly he can completely mess with your opponents plans, i.e. once they know he bounces in and out of the board they will be cautious leaving objectives open or only leaving things like combat squads back to protect it. Its the same effect Vect has!

The leadership negation alone can make him worth it. A psyker in 40k can be a scary thing. A ld7 psyker... not so much.

lucasbuffalo wrote:The leadership negation alone can make him worth it. A psyker in 40k can be a scary thing. A ld7 psyker... not so much.

Rolling on 3d6 probably too (if your runnin Tyrants/Tervis). I think he might be a nice counter to the current meta

The Deathleaper has some cool abilities, but you will probably never see one in a competitive list - it's too random. You never know what turn it's going to come in on or how good its abilities will be.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:The Deathleaper has some cool abilities, but you will probably never see one in a competitive list - it's too random. You never know what turn it's going to come in on or how good its abilities will be.

The issue isn't weather or not he'll come in; honestly, you probably won't really "need" him til 3+ to stop foes coming at you... of course, you could always do Hive Commander and get the additional +1 to reserves. I'm thinking of trying a Mawloc/Deathleaper army using T-fexes and Hive Guard for Anti-T. It'd be so different a lot of foes wouldn't expect it >

Deathleaper cannot reduce the leadership of Mephiston I believe. He can only target IC or upgrade characters and Mephiston is neither of those.

calypso2ts wrote:Deathleaper cannot reduce the leadership of Mephiston I believe. He can only target IC or upgrade characters and Mephiston is neither of those.

See I checked the FAQ and nothing states what Deathleapers ability targets... It just says "enemy charecters", not independant chars, not special chars, not infantry models, nothing... So does it work on anything or is it just charecters? To me it sounds like you just pick any model in the opposing army; kinda like Dante picks an opposing HQ


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While the FAQ doesn't say anything, a lot of people are saying it only effects specials (i.e. Mephiston, Dante, Draigo, Vect, etc.) which makes the ability... well, useless for the most part :( Well there goes that idea right out the window haha!

If you take a look at the rulebook there are 2 types of character. Upgrade characters and Independent characters. But there is also a hidden kind of character on page 49. Special characters. Mephiston would qualify for this.

The unfortunate part of your idea is that what you are suggesting is nothing new. Deathleaper is pretty awful. He has 2 redeeming features, which you already mentioned:

1. His ability to stay away from the action and go in to contest at potentially the last game turn and give you a win.

2. "It's after me". Now this is very handy being able to hurt enemy psykers in particular.

But the fact is it doesn't make up his shortcomings (IMO). I have used him multiple times and had far more success using Ymgarls, Hive Guard and Zoanthropes.

The only real downfall to deathleaper, is that he, and he alone, occupies a single Elites choice in a book that has other units that are outcompeting him for space. I would gladly field deathleaper every game, if it didn't mean I had to sacrifice 1 of 3 Elites choices that are very much needed in myarmy by something else...

If Cruddance had had half a brain, he would have made deathleaper a character upgrade for lictors, which would make both options far more attractive.

Deathleaper does have some ability to mess with your opponent's plans, however, I would strongly caution you against sending him after anything in the grey knights codex that is normally painted silver.

All it would take is one model with a Daemonhammer to turn him into bug paste, or even the squad activating their force weapons and merely scratching him.

Lets mathhammer this out:
Deathleaper charges a 5 man strike squad without any upgrades (5 swords)

6 attacks on the charge, 2/3 hit, that's 4 hits
On the wounds we will go with the average and say that you get one rend, and didn't fail to wound on any of the other hits.
2/3 of the remaining three wounds are saved, so in your side of the combat, you kill 2 grey knights.

They get to go now, they only have a 1/3 chance to hit, and a total of 4 attacks (we didn't kill off the justicar here since he gets an extra attack) Law of averages says 1 hit, that one hit has a 50% chance of wounding, and then (if no shadow of the warp is nearby) an 83% chance of turning you into bug soup. (and even with shadows of the warp nearby, the chance is 37.5% chance of bug soup) Purifiers, a larger strike squad, GKT, or Paladins would ripe the poor Deathleaper apart even faster.

Ugh, I just looked at the rules for the DL, and he can't assault on the turn he pops in, I think he would be seriously hurting from the 5 stormbolters that were firing his way, if he didn't get assaulted first for an even worse outcome for him.

Norsehawk wrote:Deathleaper does have some ability to mess with your opponent's plans, however, I would strongly caution you against sending him after anything in the grey knights codex that is normally painted silver.

All it would take is one model with a Daemonhammer to turn him into bug paste, or even the squad activating their force weapons and merely scratching him.

Lets mathhammer this out:
Deathleaper charges a 5 man strike squad without any upgrades (5 swords)

6 attacks on the charge, 2/3 hit, that's 4 hits
On the wounds we will go with the average and say that you get one rend, and didn't fail to wound on any of the other hits.
2/3 of the remaining three wounds are saved, so in your side of the combat, you kill 2 grey knights.

They get to go now, they only have a 1/3 chance to hit, and a total of 4 attacks (we didn't kill off the justicar here since he gets an extra attack) Law of averages says 1 hit, that one hit has a 50% chance of wounding, and then (if no shadow of the warp is nearby) an 83% chance of turning you into bug soup. (and even with shadows of the warp nearby, the chance is 37.5% chance of bug soup) Purifiers, a larger strike squad, GKT, or Paladins would ripe the poor Deathleaper apart even faster.

Ugh, I just looked at the rules for the DL, and he can't assault on the turn he pops in, I think he would be seriously hurting from the 5 stormbolters that were firing his way, if he didn't get assaulted first for an even worse outcome for him.

Well the use I was gonna use him for (lower justicars LD, libbys LD, or other psykers that could be troublesome) doesn't work as it says CHARACTERS... :( so I'm rethinking my list completely lol

Is the deathleaper a monsterous creature? Because then he would ignore armour saves.

loota boy wrote:Is the deathleaper a monsterous creature? Because then he would ignore armour saves.

Sorry, he is not :/ Shame, would make him lotsa better. But as he now is, he is tempting but meh..

No Deathleaper is not a MC

Well, that poses a good question. Would the deathleaper be made of badass if he was a monsterous creature? Would you take him then?

Don't think he needs to be an MC at all. Making him immune to instant death so he can't be crushed by a powerfist or a lucky melta shot would go a long way to making him more useful

Actually, he CAN target the Grey Knights Librarian, which is the key to getting BOTH hammerhand AND Force weapons in one combat (if I'm understanding Grey Knights right. One power per "unit" per turn?) By reducing the effectiveness of the Librarian, now Grey Knights are less effective against your Monstrous creatures. If the Librarian can't get powers off well (LD 8 or less on a 3d6? Ouch...) then Grey Knights become quite less of a threat to say, your Trygons.

Of course, I would play him just because Lictors are bad ass. XD

flamingwalnut wrote:Actually, he CAN target the Grey Knights Librarian, which is the key to getting BOTH hammerhand AND Force weapons in one combat (if I'm understanding Grey Knights right. One power per "unit" per turn?) By reducing the effectiveness of the Librarian, now Grey Knights are less effective against your Monstrous creatures. If the Librarian can't get powers off well (LD 8 or less on a 3d6? Ouch...) then Grey Knights become quite less of a threat to say, your Trygons.

Of course, I would play him just because Lictors are bad ass. XD

It doesn't quite work that way... and besides, since the libby is an IC, they could always break him off so a squads ld would still be fine if it did

omerakk wrote:

It doesn't quite work that way... and besides, since the libby is an IC, they could always break him off so a squads ld would still be fine if it did

You'd use the squads leadership anyway if it ended up being higher as per brotherhood of psykers.

what kills me for the deathleper is he cant start the game on the board and be picked up, he's just as vulnerable to reserves as everyone else

him and mawlocs are the fastest moving nids around on a big table(72"+)MAWLOCS BURROWING AND HIM USING WERED IT GO sorry had caps on and cant be bothered to fix it


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Grundz wrote:he's just as vulnerable to reserves as everyone else

take a hive commander and swarmlord.bear in mind that 2 hive commanders dont stack and you can only outflank 1 troops,not 1 per tyrant with hive commander

You could have deathleaper..... or you could field the compulsory 3 squads of hive guard/2 squads with doom. Whoever decided to put every good thing in the dex in the elite section was high when he wrote the codex.....


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You could have deathleaper..... or you could field the compulsory 3 squads of hive guard/2 squads with doom. Whoever decided to put every good thing in the dex in the elite section was high when he wrote the codex.....

agreed.Robin Cuddace was high enough to meet airplanes midflight.!60 points for a T4,3 wound warrior,no way

i could instead take a T5,MC with 4 wounds,rerolling,1s to hit in combat,a S6 AP5 lg blast,pinnimg and spore mine bombing run,that deep strikes and flies

or a fex


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123birds wrote:you could field the compulsory 3 squads of hive guard/2 squads with doom.

What you mean hive guard arnt compulsary?whats this about Doom

I could see taking him if he could Charge in the turn he deep strikes. This would make him, and lictors in general for that matter, much more usable.

Just FYI,lictors and Deathleaper don't deep strike,they are simply put 1" away from an enemy,no scatter,no mishap.

You are correct, they don't use the Deep Strike rules, but it is similar. If they could assault the turn they arrive is a more accurate statement.

Yes that would be an improvment on them as they are very brittle.A rule like in the 4th Ed that always gives them a cover save would be a help!

What this about 1 man units not being characters? Surely all codex entries that are not vehicles (or even MC's) that can only be taken in amounts of 1 are characters?

This seems as finiky as saying a Sanguinary Priest in terminator armour doesnt get the FnP and FC beacause it has a chalice of blood, not a blood chalice which is described in the rules, or BA whirlwinds and vindicators not having a blast template because it was ommited from the rules (I know these have now been FAQ'd now, but at the time....)

I mean, what unit types are there?
Infantry (and derivatives ie JI, bikes etc), MC's, Vehicles.

PrometheusZero wrote:What this about 1 man units not being characters? Surely all codex entries that are not vehicles (or even MC's) that can only be taken in amounts of 1 are characters?

This seems as finiky as saying a Sanguinary Priest in terminator armour doesnt get the FnP and FC beacause it has a chalice of blood, not a blood chalice which is described in the rules, or BA whirlwinds and vindicators not having a blast template because it was ommited from the rules (I know these have now been FAQ'd now, but at the time....)

I mean, what unit types are there?
Infantry (and derivatives ie JI, bikes etc), MC's, Vehicles.

characters are 1 of three types.IC,no explaining needed,special characters with a name.and upgrade characters like exarches,sergeants and nobs in a boys mob.

lictors are not characters.they don'tjoin other units,are not part of a squad of different modals,like for example warriors and besides deathleaper,are not unique