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Ok, so I'm building a Black Templar army and I notice it having a lot of trouble with Grey Knights. I can never close with the enemy lines and when I do I still have a hell of a time against force weapons.

1. Deep strike to close the gap immediately, which turns into an instant train wreck the second anything uses warp quake.
2. Use LRCs to close the gap and get first hits, which is expensive, risky, and gives up our numerical advantage.
3. Use Rhinos/Razorbacks which are even bigger Psycannon bait but spread the risk.
4. Go horde and weep as my troops are slaughered en masse.

So what do you think is the best bet? I'm leaning towards two but so far it hasn't worked out for me. Could using abhor the witch possibly work to my advantage and help me close the range gap? And is it worth using terminators against GK when they will almost redoubtably one shot them with force weapons?

Well it depends on what the GK player is bringing, but in general GK's are going to have the hardest time cracking open a Land Raider. Be warned if there is a vindicare he will need to die asap because he has a good chance of penetrating it. Deep strike is a bad idea with both a psychic power and a character that will mess with it. Foot slogging will hurt as well because of the psycannon shots.

toughy. all of them have major drawbacks. deepstiking is out of the question, so thats something.

footslog is dangerous, but you'll probably be able to get more models on the field.

remember their optimum range is 24", so if you can stay 30" out then rush it you're halfway there, land raiders would excel at this. im not sure but i think ive seen somewhere you can get fleet?? if so, 12" move, drop 2" out the front, run as far as you can, then assault 6". you can make it. possibly.

rhinos would be torn to shreds pretty much. get to 31" and stop. let them march foward and find their out of range of most of thier guns then gun it 12" and jump out behind the vehicle. rhino will probably go the turn after. if you're lucky they'll explode rather than wreck.


overall i think rhino's/razorback's are your best option. you could try drop-pod's as well. im not sure but i think they push themselves out of warp quake. basically you need to run alot.

terminators might work, but you'd need to keep their point cost down. they will need a land raider.

EDIT: Can't help you with abhor the witch as i don't know what it does.

Sabet wrote:Can't help you with abhor the witch as i don't know what it does.

I dont have the rules in front of me but I think it lets me move 1D6 inches towards the enemy before scouts phase if they have a pysker, gives my troops a 5+ save against psychic powers, and gives immunity to minor pyschic powers (non-issue). The problem is I have to give up the other vow, "Accept Any Challenge" which lets me reroll misses in CC at the cost of having to charge the nearest enemy (barely an issue).

both are good. double check the rules though. it could be very well worth it. ill have a quick check.

it seems its consolidate move. if its at the begging of the movement phase it's probably not worth it, if your running tanks, but could be very much worth it if your footslogging. i dont have the exact rules, just did a quick search. use at your discretion.

Reach it? You're Marines you can out shoot it!

Even better, you're a left-over-from-4th-Ed Marine-Variant that can still min-max like a mofo.

Vindicators in pairs screw with them. TH/SS Terminators screw with them, and they struggle against LR's. You can spam relatively cheap shooting options that the GK player must deal with, and you can over load them with targets that they'll have to kill.

IMO, kill the Rhino's/Razors first to limit their mobility. There won't be *that many* of them, their squads are still pretty expensive, and they die like normal marines.

I wish there was an option for "None of the Above". Getting into combat with the Grey Knights is a dangerous and futile prospect. Besides the fact that nearly all of their units have power weapons galore, there is a high possibility that they'll also be using Halberds and Hammerhand. Which means they strike before you do, at higher strength, and taking losses is very bad for a BT CC-oriented army. We are only average at CC right now (4th Edition codex in 5th Edition) and those losses create inefficiencies for the units. And this is not even counting the even higher likelihood that there is a Techmarine nearby welding grenades. That is pretty much is a death wish for our CC-oriented units.

The simple fact of the matter is that the best way to deal with the Grey Knights is to shoot them. And then shoot them some more. :/

Well, I'd opt for LRs, since GK have no weapons to pop such vehicle - up to the henchmen having access to meltas.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I'd opt for LRs, since GK have no weapons to pop such vehicle - up to the henchmen having access to meltas.

Remember, psycannons have rending.

Aye, they do. A gunline of Psycannons will eat through LR's like a hot knife through butter.

Marshal Laeroth wrote:I wish there was an option for "None of the Above". Getting into combat with the Grey Knights is a dangerous and futile prospect. Besides the fact that nearly all of their units have power weapons galore, there is a high possibility that they'll also be using Halberds and Hammerhand. Which means they strike before you do, at higher strength, and taking losses is very bad for a BT CC-oriented army. We are only average at CC right now (4th Edition codex in 5th Edition) and those losses create inefficiencies for the units. And this is not even counting the even higher likelihood that there is a Techmarine nearby welding grenades. That is pretty much is a death wish for our CC-oriented units.

The simple fact of the matter is that the best way to deal with the Grey Knights is to shoot them. And then shoot them some more. :/

Uphold the honour of the Emperor will protect you from those power weapons (although not very well). I'm not sure if psycannons are pinning but if they are, then this will protect you from this as well. Alternatively, if you are striking last regardless, then using Suffer not the unclean to live, because if your going to strike last regardless, then you might as well strike harder. Lightning claw SBT'S will also work, spewing forth from a LRC.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Reach it? You're Marines you can out shoot it!

Even better, you're a left-over-from-4th-Ed Marine-Variant that can still min-max like a mofo.

Vindicators in pairs screw with them. TH/SS Terminators screw with them, and they struggle against LR's. You can spam relatively cheap shooting options that the GK player must deal with, and you can over load them with targets that they'll have to kill.

IMO, kill the Rhino's/Razors first to limit their mobility. There won't be *that many* of them, their squads are still pretty expensive, and they die like normal marines.

I'd go with this idea, BT is extremely shooty when tooled out to do so, hack, they spam assault cannons really well.
Getting into CC with GK means braving all those PWs, which is difficult for MEQ CC units. (TH/SS Termies excluded, but you have to get there, which is not guaranteed)